View Full Version : SGOTM6 - Screenshots and Turnlogs

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07-02-2005, 19:27

Gonna kick this one off by posting the map after KR has made the first move of our settler and then got royally pissed off with CFCs upload joy and couldn't be bothered.


Some points to mention.

Tundra 3 SE of settler
Almost certainly Silks W and 2 NW of settler, not too obvious in this pic, but very blue in PSP
Water visible is Coast and not inland sea, might be a looong walk to that cow


07-02-2005, 19:36
Next pic is the F10 space race one. Lets see who we are up against.


11 Opponents??



07-02-2005, 21:11
Looks crowded, we need SF online ASAP apparently. The city which can use wheat and cow 2 tile NE from the start can be a good worker factory and there is another game for the second worker factory or settler factory if we are lucky with bonus grass there.

There are two possibilities or worker jobs: move straight to forest and chop it to speed up the granary build (only a single warrior seems doable in the fashion, so pure farmers gambit it is) or road and mine bonus grassland first while building some warriors for MP and scouting (3-4 total apparently + worker) and then go for granary. Either way sounds fine. But there are no luxuries around. [sad]

Please also note that we can and even probably should buy workers from AI for cash or techs apparently.

07-02-2005, 22:13
Akots, there are silks W,W,N from where the setler is now, you can see a blue thread hanging under the FoW!:D

Ok, I will play till 3000 BC, unless anything big happens I won't consult the team after every move.

07-02-2005, 22:56
4000BC, moved setler SW, Moved worker W.

3950BC, founded our Capitol, Paramaribo, and started a mine with the worker:


Of Course, as requested the research on alpha was started:


The stats upon founding:


3900BC: enter

3850BC: enter

3800BC: enter

3750BC: enter

3700BC: we have produced a warrior! I send it to the mountain, revealing the expected silks!! I start another warrior in Paramaribo.


3650BC: worker finishes Mine, starts road. warrior to second mountain, will continue scouting along the coast.

3600BC: Paramaribo grows, luxslider to 20%.

3550BC: Paramaribo builds second warrior, designated warrior II. the first is renamed to warrior I, so it easier to talk about it. I senf it due west. Paramaribo starts a setler. I think we need a second city soon.

3500BC: Worker finishes road, moves to tile west of capitol to irrigate the grass, as preparation for the game tile to be irrigated as well
Warriors continue to scout.


3450BC: Our cultural borders expand meaning we now only need 99990 culture points to win the game!

Expansion puts the citizen in Paramaribo on the gameforrest giving us 5 spt, with already 8 shields invested we will produce a setler in 5 turns.

3400BC: War II finds a hut. I will not open as it easily poppable with founding a city, so we will not get barbs. Do not say we should ahve taken a gamble for a setler as that is disabled in this game![eek]


3350BC: In the interturn a barbarian warrior meets our WarII!!


I fortify on the mountain to lure in the attack. we should win at 2.25 defence.

3300BC: War II defeats the barb without losses.:D
Sending War II NW on the mountain the barb came from reveals the camp! This is great, we can keep putting regular warriors on the mountain and the barbs will keep attacking, getting us promotions.
As I want to keep our setler from any harm I move war I SW.

3250 BC: Paramaribo to size 3, setler in one, adjusted citizens in place. lux to 30%. worker finishes irrigation and moves to gameforrest to chop for a granary in Paramaribo.

3200BC: Paramaribo builds setler! worker begins chopping forrest, Paramaribo starts on granary. War I moves towrd our setler to rendezvous at building location I selected.
Also, lux back to O%, 100% science.

3150BC: Setler makes it to citylocation without barbs sighted, War I resumes scouting duty.

3100BC: the city of Eindhoven is founded! It uses a wheat for growth. Warrior ordered. Alphabet is now in 23 turns!


3050BC: A mongol scout is spotted:


They have:


Only one city is good news.

3000BC: last turn for me. Worker finishes chopping and starts irrigating.

war I still scouts.

Where do I send/attach the save?

07-02-2005, 23:05
Upload save:

Download save:

@Kingreno: Looks great! [goodjob]

Can you please post the turn log (may be truncated and with no pics) at CFC to keep mad-bax happy? I'm sure you'd love to make him happy... :)

07-02-2005, 23:24

08-02-2005, 00:11
Sorry guys, I have been thinking of it for 2 months now, and there is no wonderful factory possible in this area, at least not before a very long time. [lol] But you can set up normal stinking factories if you want. If that makes you happy. If that makes mad-bax happy. ;)

Me out now, I can't be of any help anymore, my usual Civ thinking stops here. :D Good luck !


08-02-2005, 02:20

quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

3100BC: the city of Eindhoven is founded! It uses a wheat for growth. Warrior ordered.

When in fact the picture shows a worker.

Please lets not start the warrior/worker confusion, what did you want KR? Warrior makes more sense to me.


08-02-2005, 03:39
I like the Suriname theme, mind if I compose a list of citynames around this theme?

08-02-2005, 10:59
@ Mel, since the final construction of anything in Eindgoven would be past my part of the turnplaying I didn't realy bother. In my view a new player checks all cities and changes things when needed. Warrior is ok but worker has a lot to say for itself too.

@ Beam, in my short game vs Stapel I used the Surinametheme! Zanderij, Langetabbetje, Nieuw Nickerie were all cities there. What I like about SG's is that each player will found his own citynames (likely a hometown too). :)

Lt. Killer M
08-02-2005, 11:23
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

you can see a blue thread hanging under the


08-02-2005, 11:57
I've alwsys played that each player gets to name the cities founded during turns according to any theme they like. It makes for a nice mix... and there's no way I'm naming anything with a j in it.

08-02-2005, 12:41
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

@ Mel, since the final construction of anything in Eindgoven would be past my part of the turnplaying I didn't realy bother. In my view a new player checks all cities and changes things when needed. Warrior is ok but worker has a lot to say for itself too.

Okey Dokey.

Didnt want to break any rules from Mad-Bax (the bit about massively changing builds in cities, this would be 50% of our current production changed! [cool])

It just bothers me that we have the Mongols as neighbours and 2 empty cities, naked bending over for the soap.

Quick Update from the game though.

Upon opening the save I noticed that the Expansionist Mongols were right next to OUR hut and our warrior was fortified next to it also. Not wishing to give a free goody bag to the horse lovers I woke the warrior and sent him hut popping.

25 Gold [coool]


08-02-2005, 15:17
Don't forget Wageningen, Nieuw Amsterdam, Brownsberg, Albina en the best of all, het Prof. Dr. Ir. van Blommesteijn lake [groucho]

08-02-2005, 18:17
quote:3400BC: War II finds a hut. I will not open as it easily poppable with founding a city, so we will not get barbs.

Read my spoiler vs krys. Cultural borders can pop barbs from hut although it doesn't happen often.

08-02-2005, 18:33
quote:Originally posted by Beam

quote:3400BC: War II finds a hut. I will not open as it easily poppable with founding a city, so we will not get barbs.

Read my spoiler vs krys. Cultural borders can pop barbs from hut although it doesn't happen often.

Point is moot now, as I already popped that hut :D

anarres is gonna kill me :(


Lt. Killer M
08-02-2005, 19:58
quote:Originally posted by Beam

quote:3400BC: War II finds a hut. I will not open as it easily poppable with founding a city, so we will not get barbs.

Read my spoiler vs krys. Cultural borders can pop barbs from hut although it doesn't happen often.

he was talking not by cultural expansion, but by founding so the hut is in the inner 9 tiles (i.e. in contact with the town). That will not give barbs.

If the tile is OUTSIDE the 9, but still included at founding (by connection to already existing land) it can go barb though. i guess that is what happened in your krys game.

08-02-2005, 21:30
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

he was talking not by cultural expansion, but by founding so the hut is in the inner 9 tiles (i.e. in contact with the town). That will not give barbs.

If the tile is OUTSIDE the 9, but still included at founding (by connection to already existing land) it can go barb though. i guess that is what happened in your krys game.

I concur, Excellency ! [goodjob] This is indeed what happened, and what should happen when huts are destroyed by borders' expansion.

Killer, soon I'll call you 'Sir', because you know the game too well ! ;)

On a sidenote, I'm afraid my spam post count will rise a lot with this SGOTM event... [hmm]

09-02-2005, 14:01
OK So I make one last move before hitting return.

3000BC - Part 2 - Notice the mongol scout is right next to our hut! That low down dirty expansionist scum is gonna take our hut on the inter-turn and I aint having none of that. The warrior there is thankfully fortified, so up ye get laddie. Hut popping for you sonny. We get 25 gold :D.

Now for a quick check around.

Warrior II now shows some more coast to the north of the mountain he has climbed! This could get ugly.

Hit return

Turn 01 - 2950BC - Move Warrior II NW onto another mountain NE of the barb camp. I can now see that the coast I previously saw north of here is in fact a 1 tile inland sea :D There is also more huts west of barb camp. Warrior I moves west and spots more land over the north waters. Have a look at what the Mongols have [:o]

IT - Mongols scout moves onto the silks, Mongol warrior appears 1 west of the barb camp, 1 SW of the huts.

Turn 02 - 2900BC - I decide that Warrior II's time has come. Attack! He disperses the barb camp, 25 more gold for us. WII is now a 1hp reg warrior. Warrior I heads back for MP duty, he's 4 turns from Eindhoven. Cap hits size 2 again, lux slider up to 10%.

IT - The mongol warrior pops the hut, no sign of any extra units, so money, maps or tech. If it was tech it was one I cant see. In fact it wasn't tech, cos I think the cheapest tech for them would still be Alpha. Mongol scout moves 1 north from silks.

Turn 03 - 2850BC - Warrior II goes west on a mountain. The river in the far west near the goats kinks SE after heading SW. Eindhoven hits size 2 and working the forest can make worker next turn. I switch Wheat citizen to scientist, no need for growth when making workers. Moves Alpha from due in 18, to due in 13. Warrior I still heading back for Capital.

IT - Both Mongol units disappear into the fog. Mongols now have Alpha as well and an extra city. Cant see any borders, which is the only good thing about this.

Turn 04 - 2800BC - Eindhoven worker -> warrior. Worker I completes irrigation moves south to mine. Paramaribo switched to use Game tile plus Mined BG. Growth in 3 (with 1 wasted food) and Granary in 8. Worker II goes west onto hill getting ready to join Worker I. Spots the mongols scout on the mountain 2 NW of the silks. Warrior II continues west where he spots 2 mongols warriors (different tiles) 1 vet, 1 conscript. Was sure the last warrior was reg. [??] Just notice in time that the lux needs upping to 20%. Switching tiles away from river meant that 10% lux dont go as far as it used to.

IT - Mongols warriors appear to be moving north in the far west. Nice to see. Scout fogs out again. Wow, dunno who the Mongols met, but they made a killing. Last turn they had 0 gold, now they have 396 gold!

Turn 05 - 2750BC - Warrior II goes SW. Worker I starts mining. Worker II moves towards Worker I. Warrior I continues south. Consider switching Para to Mined BG and forest to get Gran in 4, growth in 5. But decide to go for the pop ;)

Turn 06 - 2710BC - Warrior II moves north, convinced this is where contact was made by Mongols.

IT - Dark Red border appears in the East!! Check F10 space race, this should be Carthage or Japs? No contact as yet but a warrior in the east should touch borders.

Turn 07 - 2670BC - Warrior II goes NW. Para hits size 3. Move citizen to the tile workers are well working and now its Gran in 3, growth in 4 at 5fpt! Woohoo! Lux up to 30% [cry]

Turn 08 - 2630BC - Worker II joins in with Mining. Warrior II continues north. Warrior I detours east to initiate contact.

Turn 09 - 2590BC - Eindhoven hits size 2, Warrior in 1, using forest and wheat. Warrior I continues east, contact next turn. Warrior II continues North.

Turn 10 - 2550BC - Paramaribo granary -> wealth (sounds odd, but I wanna get this SF working right) Needs to be switched to Settler on the next players FIRST turn, not the end of this turn! Eindhoven warrior -> warrior. Warrior III heads for Paramaribo! Workers complete mine! Now I think if I got this right, without any more mining Para will make 6 spt at size 4, and 7 spt at size 5. So does that mean 2x6 + 2 (for the expansion forest) and then 2x7 + 2 (also for forest) which would be 30 shields in 4 turns? Anyways MM Eindhoven for max growth, size 3 and warrior in 5 turns. Please feel free to change this warrior should you need, but we need escorts for the second settler we get in 5 turns time :D Warrior I moves into talking to Reds range blocking the Mongol scout from doing the same, and its the Japs. Holy Shit batman. They have 5 cities plus their cap and are only Mysticism down on the Mongols. Mongols still only have Capital and 2 cities.

And thats that, next player should notice that both workers still have their moves left. Wanted to know if Para needs any more mining before doing anything with them. Also AFTER hitting return, please put Para on Settler duty.

Thats that really.

See ya.


09-02-2005, 15:56
Here in body but not in spirit! I can read some at work in my lunch, but tbh I can't do enough without internet at home.

Later tonight I will either be online and playing this, or offline and firebombing my local ntl offices...

09-02-2005, 15:59
Well played Mel. Great pics too! ;)

Anarres! How's life without poker??[:o]

09-02-2005, 16:38
Much poorer than it was with poker... [sad]

09-02-2005, 17:01
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Now I think if I got this right, without any more mining Para will make 6 spt at size 4, and 7 spt at size 5. So does that mean 2x6 + 2 (for the expansion forest) and then 2x7 + 2 (also for forest) which would be 30 shields in 4 turns?

Now I need someone with better experience than I to answer this one.

Any takers?


09-02-2005, 17:09
Damn cheese heads...

Found out myself from the CFC War Academy...

quote:Requirements for a 4 turn settler factory

For a 4 turn settler factory you need 6 production after waste at your starting population while working all the bonus food and 7 at one higher than your starting population. This assumes that you have a spare forest or other 2 shield producing somewhere. Your shields will then be 6 on the first turn, 6 on the second turn, plus the extra 2 from the newly produced citizen, 7 on the third turn, and 7 plus 2 on the final turn.

Settler factory is up!

Remains of the turn on wealth and then its a settler every 4 turns thereafter. That means 2 settlers to play with in anarres' turn!


09-02-2005, 19:19
Since there is a time limit to the game and it is expected to be rather long one, this game has to move regardless of poker or broadband presence in Anarres' house. I'll grab it then and col plays after hopefully before the weekend (??) and Anarres/Killer can have a weekend enjoyment with it hopefully with internet access fixed and CFC bans lifted off.

@Meli: Can you please post a screenie with a few tiles around the start and discuss the city placements since 2 settlers will be due? Do we go for food or for luxuries? For workers or for warriors? For hills (shields) or for rivers (trade). IMHO, farmers gambit seems like a sure bet but apparently we need to explore a little more. (??) I have not yet looked at the save and have no idea but will play today at night in any case unless Anarres will which seems a rather unlikely possibility.

09-02-2005, 19:26
I can play tomorrow. I think a dot map is needed.

09-02-2005, 19:32
Definitely go ahead, the ntl sage goes from worse to.. even worse. [mad]

No internet until fri it looks like now...

09-02-2005, 20:03
As requested the entire map! In zoomed mode then resized to twice the size.
So dont blame me if its big (wide)



PS. Meant to do this earlier, damn work getting in the way earlier.

09-02-2005, 21:42
May be worth going for the second wheat and second game which comes to coastal
plains in the north and coastal tundra or hill on the river in the south?
Or go west to mountains/silks?

Trying to flip Kagoshima seems tempting as well.

10-02-2005, 01:24
I personally think Silks MUST come first, but completely agree with all the other choices after that.

We need the 2nd settler factory up and running soon.

But where?


10-02-2005, 09:03
Preflight check results in setting up preferences and trading Alphabet from Japan for 47g+2gpt. Research set to Writing in 50 turns at 70%. One worker builds road on grassland but another moves back to game to build a road there. Better later than never.

[1] 2510BC. Luxuries up to 40% (!!).

[2] 2470BC. Pink border spotted to the north. Luxuries down to 30% since the warrior arrives in Para for MP duty.

[3] 2430BC. Luxuries back to 40% since Para grows to size 5.

[4] 2390BC. We meet Mao. Trade Alpha to him for BW+55g. This brings us one tech closer to Iron and Gallic guys. Gold enables us to run some deficit while racing towards Writing. But since the tech rate is for the large map, it might still be worth going there at minimal rate. But you never know... Luxuries down to 20% since the second MP warrior arrives to Para. I switch Eind to worker since the urge to irrigate the wheat is so huge, I cannot resist it. Looks like Japan has started with 2 settlers. Another nice surprise from the SGOTM staff.

[5] 2350BC. Settler-worker ready and first goes to hills to claim silks and the second goes to irrigate the wheat.

[6] 2310BC. Orenburg is founded (so much for the Suriname theme ;)) and starts on warrior.

[7] 2270BC. All quiet, worker moved to silks to chop forest there.

[8] 2230BC. All Mongol gold has disappeared somewhere and no new techs appeared. Where did they hide this gold of theirs? May be their gold train has been robbed? [confused]

[9] 2190BC. Settler number two ready and he goes north to claim the game.

[10] 2150BC. Settler arrived to destination. Build right on the spot next turn apparently. Have not checked diplo - leaving it to col.

SF requires minimal maintenance, just switching from forest to bonus grass, don't even need to adjust the luxury rate. We can try for another SF in Eind apparently after whipping temple and border expansion which claims the second wheat. but the city has too few bonus grasslands in the radius, so the only way seems to irrigate the second wheat and work the forest. Not sure if this will help though since the forest better be chopped to speed up the granary build. We can let the AI build the cities for us and then happily conquer them and whip the foreigners to worship our Celtic Gods then.

Dot map:

I'm not sure about order of builds of the cities. Might be site A is OK since it gives wheat to Eind. But other sites... hard to tell. I'd go for C then and D1-D2 but we better scout the area with warrior which will be ready in Orenburgh next turn. Just in case there might be barbs or luxuries to claim a tile further to the south-west. There is also spices which we might want to claim rather soon apparently. Heavy whipping might need as many luxuries as possible.

And this is the scouting discoveries in the Chinese lands:


10-02-2005, 09:05
@Meli: Please, can you delete your picture or decrese the size of it, please... Hard to read the posts it is.

10-02-2005, 11:22
Now would that be someone's birthplace ?


10-02-2005, 11:36
Sweet motherland it is indeed. [cry]


10-02-2005, 19:31
Cols turn

Preliminary check reveals everything is OK. Lots of good lands to the northwest including more lux.
No trades available. Nothing about to grow or revolt so...press Enter

1-2110bc Send Orenberg warrior south to scout. Colopolis built by river. Curragh ordered.
Scout heads NE.

2-2070bc Orenburg builds a warrior. Set to build another. Worker set to connect up silks.

3-2030bc Settler built. Heading for C. Warriors explore.

4-1990bc Worker set to connect Orenberg. Explore. Lux to 30% as Endhoven grows.

5-1950bc Silks connected. Lux down to 10%. Research to 80% The Carthos arrive - and they have writing :(
Colville founded at C

6-1910bc Orenberg builds another warrior. Set to rax. Everyone is 5 tech ahead of us.

7-1870bc Settler built. Suggest heads for A. No barbs around. Clams sighted. Chowder anyone?

8-1830bc Curragh built and sent southeast. Eindhoven connected.

9-1790bc Japanese build an embassy with us. Carthos start Pyramids. Eindhoven builds worker.

10-1750bc Colville builds a warrior. Set to build another as place holder.

10-02-2005, 19:34
latest pic


10-02-2005, 20:05
And now in a clear lead on score


Woot [charge]

10-02-2005, 20:28
Nice One Col!!!

Bit confused why Paramaribo shows as grow in 2 turns, build settler in 2 turns [confused]

Have checked back and see that settlers come out every 4 turns so why doesn't Para say size 5, settler in 2, grow in 1???


10-02-2005, 20:41
Hmm - not sure - settlers do come out in 4 turns. Para cycles between 3 and 5.

10-02-2005, 20:51
3 and 5?


I thought it was a 4-6 SF. You're a better MMaster than me :D

I didnt get to settle any cities [cry]


10-02-2005, 21:22
Well we should have 2 cities every turn for a while so you'll get a chance for Broad Acres.

I probably screwed up the MM somewhere. I cant be arsed adjusting tiles between cities every turn like Kemal and co.

10-02-2005, 23:06
Since the bonus grass has been mined, it is OK for settler to be produced from size 3 to size 5, no need for 4-6 factory apparently since 3-5 is functional. It all looks splendid.

@Col: [goodjob]

Any progress on the diplo front? Tehcs, or contacts or workers bought? Or we are stuck with Mongols, China, and Japan on a continent? May be go for a curragh then seeking for new freinds in the open seas?

However, there is also a single question of who will play next. Apparently, since Anarres cannot hammer through the ISP support to fix his access it comes to Killer.

Killer: Are you able to play?
Anarres: Can you play at home and post from work?

10-02-2005, 23:22
No new contacts. Nothing available to buy.
I mined the grass.
I have a curragh heading southeast.

11-02-2005, 12:54
There is no internet yet, but my appointment is for now until midday so I will know soon if I have interent this weekend. :)

11-02-2005, 18:08
OK, so who's taking this?

We are about 1 hr away from Mad-Baxs strict 24hr to post a got it deadline.

Killer or anarres please respond!

Otherwise I suppose KR is going to have to have a second set of turns.


11-02-2005, 18:34
Anarres has posted to say he has internet access again.


11-02-2005, 19:20
I posted a got it.

13-02-2005, 17:51
Shit. The save can't be downloaded! The link to the save files are all dead....


13-02-2005, 17:57
Here's the save then

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CDZ_SG006_BC1750_01.SAV (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/col/2005213165736_CDZ_SG006_BC1750_01.SAV)

13-02-2005, 18:10
Brilliant! thanks. :)

13-02-2005, 19:31
Upload and download page is now working ok too.

13-02-2005, 22:14
Preturn (1750BC): tut tut, there are 2 cities that should be one 4 turn growth and instead have been allowed to be at 4 and 3 fpt. :(

col, it takes only 2 minutes each turn at this stage to mm the cities so they get enough food. Not mm'ing shields is one thing, but not mm'ing food on our 5 food-per-turn cities is really bad for our overall growth and power, especially so very early in the game...

Turn lux down from 10% to 0%. I can't help but feel we've missed a turn or two on writing as well (Sci was at 80% when lux was at 10%, so 10% wasted).

Maybe I'm expecting too much, but it really doesn't take long and it could mean missing Philosophy and a free tech.

On checking diplo Japan, Mongols and Carthage all have Writing, and China is lacking it and has cash and techs to spare. With 3 turns left on Writing we should have checked diplo for it to buy every turn...

Buy Writing from Carthage for 13 gold and 4 gpt.
Sell Writing to China for Iron Working and 30 gold. I think it's best to get Iron Working now and avoid roading any Iron we see. If we wait too long before getting IW we may find we've founded a city on an Iron tile and be stuck without warriors.

Excellent - we have 1 Iron source on our border, and on a mountain so not in the way.

At 100% Science (and after some mm), Philosophy is now in 10 turns. We will see if I can speed it up a little...

Turn 1 (1725BC): Colopolis build warrior -> curragh.

Turn 2 (1700BC): Paramaribo builds settler -> settler.

Found my first city, Bastard. I moved the settler 1 tile from where col left it because I can get another river city in like this (and also free up a BG for one of our 5 fpt cities).

I've managed to get Phil down to 7 turns now. We're -5 gpt and have 34 in the bank.

Turn 3 (1675BC): Eindhoven bilds worker -> worker. Colville builds warrior -> barracks.

Turn 4 (1650BC): Philosophy is now down to 4 turns, I've set 3 scientists in cities where it will gain at least 2 beakers per turn, and we are now getting 43 beakers per turn!

AI: Vikings complete the Colossus.

Turn 5 (1625BC): It's problaby worth mentioning I've been roading river tiles for the rush to Philosophy.

Turn 6 (1600BC): Colopolis builds curragh -> warrior.

Found my second city, Arse.

AI: We get booted from Chinas territory, but we got 2 warriors on mountains and good visibility now over their lands.

Turn 7 (1575BC): Paramaribo builds settler -> settler. Colopolis builds curragh -> warrior. Philosophy next turn.

Turn 8 (1550BC): Go to the "big picture" screen before choosing the next tech and check diplo.

Sell Philosophy to Japan for 498 gold. I could buy techs first, but I can get full value for Philosophy here (we leave Japan with 30 gold).
Give Philosophy and 88 gold to Carthage for Mysticism and Warrior Code.
Sell Mysticism (+1 gold) to China for Masonry.
Buy the Wheel for 223 gold from the Mongols (don't want to sell them Phil yet in case they have HBR).
They do have HBR but I can't get much of our cash back if I buy it, so I give the Mongols Phil for 226 gold.

The only tech we are down now is Horseback Riding, and they all have it so there is no urgent need to buy it.

I set our tech to Map Making but we have missed the Philosophy gambit. I can't but help think this is our own fault and we could have avoided it. [cry]

I check the map and we are missing horses. The nearest one I can see is in Chinese territory, not exactly the bit nearest us either.

Set science to Maths@max (10 turns).

Turn 9 (1525BC): Carthage has Maths now.

AI: China declares war on us! They attack Bastard with an Archer and lose.

Turn 10 (1500BC): I don't move anything apart from 1 warrior, because we are at war now and need to consider our next move carefully.

Suggestions for this war:

Build barracks then warriors in Colleville and Colopolis.
Orenburg just finished barracks and can go straight to warrior production.
Bartard and Arse can both just build warriors with no barracks (not enough shields per turn).
Para and Eindhoven can build workers (Para the odd settler, but mostly workers).
All new cities to build just warriors.

Set science to 0% and save cash for upgrades to Gallic Swords.

13-02-2005, 22:22
I can't upload at CFC because it says my name is not recognised.

Here it is:

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CDZ_SG006_BC1500.zip (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/2005213212210_CDZ_SG006_BC1500.zip)

13-02-2005, 22:22
[eek] This is not looking good at all...any pics taken?

13-02-2005, 22:36
no, sorry. [blush]

13-02-2005, 22:54
I'll try to upload the save then.

13-02-2005, 22:55
Did you play the edited version with curragh movement 2?

The links were broken because m-b asked AlanH to edit the saves on the server. Don't you read the maintenance thread?

13-02-2005, 22:58
@Killer: Please don' play until we make sure the saves are patched.

13-02-2005, 23:05
@Anarres: It might be your inability to download the save is due to two possibilities: first one, your name has been mistyped by m-b. Second, the checksum of the file failed since you were supposed to have the edited save submitted wheres it might be you played unedited one. Please pm AlanH at CFC to ask about it and wait for his reply.

13-02-2005, 23:22
quote:Originally posted by anarres

Preturn (1750BC): tut tut, there are 2 cities that should be one 4 turn growth and instead have been allowed to be at 4 and 3 fpt. :(

col, it takes only 2 minutes each turn at this stage to mm the cities so they get enough food. Not mm'ing shields is one thing, but not mm'ing food on our 5 food-per-turn cities is really bad for our overall growth and power, especially so very early in the game...

Mea Culpa. One of the cities I think had just grown and a worker needed moving - an oversight.

I checked trades every turn ntil the last one and none were available.

I have a feeling I'm gonne get bollocked a lot :(

13-02-2005, 23:22
For whatever reason anarres has become annares in the upload server. Apparently neither mad-bax nor AlanH are the big fans of the Lady Ursula.

13-02-2005, 23:28
The save has been uploaded by impersonating myself as annares successfully. ;)

Now lets wait for AlanH to fix it. Please, make sure this is not repeated in the future.

The only legitimate way to acquire the save is to download it from the SGOTM page. We can be disqualified by playing the save acquired in an old-fashioned way. If the download link is broken, please do not attempt to get the save from preceding player by alternative means. Please then wait for the link to be restored or pm m-b or AlanH at CFC.

14-02-2005, 04:49
@Killer: You are UP. The save has been patched by AlanH. To get it, please download from the SGOTM page but by no means use the save which has been posted by Anarres.

Good luck!

Lt. Killer M
14-02-2005, 10:51
gargh, why is it that I have already lost all motivation? Maybe all that stuff with wrong saves and sudden special changes and lots and lots of verbuous threads by the admin that one needs to read inc ase some absurd rule change pops up....


now if I knew where the freking CORRECT svae now is and how to frekingly correctly DL it I might be tempted to post a freakin' got-it.

(can you tell my anger about all the long-past GOTM BS with funny edits that gave crashes is coming up AGAIN?)

14-02-2005, 11:54

I'm just ignoring all that stuff. I really dont give a toss about it.
Click on the underlined CDZ 1500bc bit

Lt. Killer M
14-02-2005, 12:21
thanx, col. I already found it, but now I need to work first :(

14-02-2005, 21:22
If we play bad, we get our ass spanked. Isn't that enough of motivation? And since the world is full with cheaters, there are certain measures implemented. Just make it accurate please with SF, and build more cities in good locations and improvements. We should be in REXing phase.

14-02-2005, 21:28
I take your point - but the bottom line for me is just playing the SG and enjoying it.

We are at war with China now so REX might be a bit difficult.

Lt. Killer M
15-02-2005, 13:38
NOTE: I have a horrible reload count on this. Reasons: playing at work - if I Alt-Tab out of Civ it often crashes. I had 5 crashes playing these turns. Also, I couldnít play in one sitting. (

preturn: some MMing, follow anarres suggestiuons but decide to skim the worker from Colville.
need 10% lux.
do not feel lucky and do not attack chinese archer, rather move (across river, onto mountain) our warrior into chiense lands.

(1) Klei mi am Mors founded
Writing gets us 29+HBR from iros.
move warrior deeper into chinese lands (trying to keep their forces there)
mining gets Eind off 3/3 worker cycle. We can do intermittent warriors there, too.

(2) nothing much. MMing, settler goes to Orenburg, our warrior keeps wandering.

(3) same same.

(4) warrior redlines but fights back archer. Orenburg is on 5spt, Para will (one mine needed) be a 2/2 worker factory. Massive MMing makes it 4/4 settler again any time. I want another settler for the Dyes. I decide that bastard gets barracks (cutting forest, then mining plains - it has enough growth to get the respectable size/prod fast).

(5) Para Mme to growth for settler.

seems I lost my turn count here somehow

(7) Colville has Ďracks and goes warriors in 2, Arse switched to Ďracks, too. I see no Chinese coming so we have time.

(8) Japan wants 58 Gold. We can war happiness.
We meet India. Writing+Myst gets us Maths+worker; they are at war (I see a 2HP archer); I guess with Japan. MM para to 2/2 for the settler

(9) marching into China again.

(10) Spice up your life! founded.

I leave most things unmoved.

We can begin thinking about roading the iron!

15-02-2005, 13:42
I would not worry about reloading too much, just if you can please post the same thing at CFC. Nobody said it's gonna be easy to play at work. [lol]

Kingreno is up. Do we need to discuss someting? May be take a look at the picture?

Edited: Never mind, I've seen your post at CFC.

15-02-2005, 14:46
quote:Originally posted by anarres

Turn 8 (1550BC):


Go to the "big picture" screen before choosing the next tech and check diplo.

Sell Philosophy to Japan for 498 gold.


I set our tech to Map Making but we have missed the Philosophy gambit. I can't but help think this is our own fault and we could have avoided it. [cry]

Just a quick note on the philosophy thing, if people don't mind me saying... I'm not sure of course, but it might be you lost the philo gamble because of the fact you sold philosophy to the AI before you actually gained the free tech yourself, meaning the AI probably got the free tech once you traded it with them, since that would be similar with the way the free techs from scientific civs can be gained before you get your own free tech as scientific civ, i.e getting your free tech after the AIs, even though you are reaching the next age as the first player.

So maybe when the game checked whether the invention of philosophy would grant you a free tech, even though you had it first, the game saw the tech had already granted a free tech to another player/AI, which is when it was traded away before this check was made for the human player.

That really stinks of course, and is quite unfair, but it would be a quite solid explanation I suppose... :(

Lt. Killer M
15-02-2005, 17:20
kemal: trading doesn't influence the free tech from philo.

15-02-2005, 17:27
I guess someone else got there first.

15-02-2005, 17:39
Tis a shame.

In truth in mmost of the games I ran to test this I normally won the philo race on or around the 1550BC mark.


PS. I still blame Col though on general principles.

15-02-2005, 18:01
@killer: you're right indeed, it seems trading doesn't effect the philo tech at all, bad luck for you guys losing out on philo still that early in the game... unless the gotm-team put some other AI in an advantageous position of course with regard to the philo gambit, and every team will fail to get it first. :)

15-02-2005, 18:27
On the bright side. Whoever got Philo, it wasn't anyone we knew and could trade it around for good money/techs. Killer says we now have over 750gold and make about 45gpt.

Warrior -> GS = 90gold so thats enough for 8 upgrades now and another every other turn.

Have we built embassies with all the other civs yet? Great use of cash IMO.

Also talked with Killer about the possibility of having a single city connected to the Iron and do all our upgrades there. The rest could then still build warriors.

I think we need to be seriously kicking some ass soon, might be nice to be Golden Aging whilst trying to build libraries, although GA in despot wont make too much difference with all our mining.

@anarres - I see from your turn log that you tried to get MM from the Philo gambit. Why? i understand its the most expensive tech on offer, but surely Literature (and libraries) would have been more use? Or maybe Code Of Laws for when we get silly large, but not that useful atm. I can see us researching up to Theology at most.

ToA and Sistines could be very nice wonders (Sistines doubles the culture from Caths)


Well I'll be up after KingReno so we'll see what I'm left to play with [:p]


15-02-2005, 18:45
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

PS. I still blame Col though on general principles.

Good advice that applies in almost any situation.

Lt. Killer M
15-02-2005, 19:16
quote:Originally posted by Kemal

@killer: you're right indeed, it seems trading doesn't effect the philo tech at all, bad luck for you guys losing out on philo still that early in the game... unless the gotm-team put some other AI in an advantageous position of course with regard to the philo gambit, and every team will fail to get it first. :)

I have had games where an AI popped Phil from a hut.

15-02-2005, 20:36
OK well I worked out why Killer got his turns buggered up.

You saved at the start of your 10th turn and uploaded.

No matter I looked at the save and saw our current position.

China will accept peace for 40 gold.

China hasn't connected the horses within its borders and we have 2 warriors in the area. Keep em from the horses. They dont have HBR but I'm happy to face warriors and archers from them.

Settler in Para should go for the Dyes? 1 West of the Dyes I suppose. Stop the Japs coming over and settling there.

Techs we are up on most civs (cant tell about Japan) but they have no money. Iroqs are equal. Carthago have MM up on us. Could buy for 500 gold (but why?).

F3 advisor puts our army weak compared to China and Japan.

F11 Demogs say we are No. 1 in

Approval Rating 64%
Population 665000
GNP 60 Mil
Mfg. Goods 38 MTons
Productivy 113

Annual income we place 2nd with 1 per capita.


Land Area 10100 sq miles 11th
Literacy 3 % 6th
Military Service 8 years 12th

Never will understand Military Service.

I also see no real reason to put Para on workers. I still think that we should be cranking out a settler every 4 turns for the forseeable future. If we keep the fighting well north we can be creating important cities sooner rather than later. 1 city not producing warriors is something I think we can afford.


Lt. Killer M
15-02-2005, 20:52
I agree with meli on all! [:p]

15-02-2005, 21:30
I just dare to remind that this is not the domination game, we must win with 100K cultural victory. Settlers have the top priority and expansion. We get to go to ICS after the core so need really many settlers. Not sure but looks like thinking about the war might be a bit too early (or late). [confused]

BTW, take a look at this GOTM spoiler by Randy, what do you think?

To me looks like a new Ribannah scandal is going to emerge. SirPleb is really unhappy with this kind of stuff and mods did not dare to edit his post:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110786&page=1&pp=20 see post number 12.

15-02-2005, 21:47
SirPleb has every reason to be as suspicious and unhappy as he is, of course, and I think everyone can agree with that.

It is exactly because of games/players like these that I've completely stopped participating in the GotM competiton, even when only chasing the relatively "cheater-safe" space race awards to start with...

It just isn't worth the time and effort (anymore), imo.

15-02-2005, 22:01
Well, might say that recently no such issues have happened. Especially after a strick control has been imposed on reloading and other kind of bullshit cheating. I would dare to say that cheating is outright impossible in GOTM as it stands now. The files are automatically checked for editing and reloading upon submission, maps are very thoroughly tested to ensure these things don't happen and in case of doubt players are asked to submit the critical saves which are then analyzed manually by the GOTM staff. And the staff is rumored to have particular scrutiny for the top 20 finishes. An example is Bremp's GOTM 26 win (last cracker's GOTM) where he overused the Palace jump exploit which has been banned shortly afterwards by ainwood. And these things did not happen for a long-long time, as long as I can remember, probably at least for a year it was all very quiet.

We'll know in a few days once the results are posted. If the game is clean, this Randy will get a medal or award or whatever. If not, he will be facing ban from GOTM.

@Kemal: Sometimes, I'm getting really frustrated with my GOTM results but still continue playing. Even if you don't win a medal or award, it is still a good thing since I cannot make myself play a single-player game on my own unlike you. But regular playing helps to keep the form up at least to passable. It is like general training in Hattrick. And also very useful to see what could have been done diferently and how the play could have been improved.

But I don't think that warrior rush is a way to go on Monarch. Even with this crowded map. However, on Regent it sometimes works. Though not on Predator class.

15-02-2005, 23:15
Randy's game shows all the hallmarks of map knowledge. He seems to be able to head for each capital and take it out with a minimum number of moves and maximum amount of luck.

Something smells.

15-02-2005, 23:20
Anarres technique for culture - iirc from the tournament - was to maximise area as quickly as possible to the dom limit by military means with cities built on normal spacing and only then to fill rapidly by ICS.

Going ICS too soon just doesnt give enough oomph. You need the land.

Of course, he may say all this is crap - but I recall he was the master at culture wins on Deity and Emperor.

15-02-2005, 23:45
quote:Originally posted by col

Randy's game shows all the hallmarks of map knowledge. He seems to be able to head for each capital ...

I've played this one and submitted and actually did not even meet the Zulu until turn 20 or so when Randy had already eliminated them. Apparently, I have made a "wrong strategic decision"... :)

Drazek's archer rush makes more sense and I was thinking of it as well but finally decided against it.

15-02-2005, 23:53
Just a reminder that the winner of SGOTM is not determined by the score though there is also an award for highest Jason score. The fastest finish date is most important and determines the winner. IMO, we need a balance of early culture and expansion.

Also, it seems that the AIs were given extra settlers in C3C version of the game compared to vanilla-PTW to compensate for the 4-turn settler factory. This might be one of the reasons why the Philo race has been lost along with a number of goodie huts for the AI apparently. It won't be a walkover in terms of military expansion as well even with Celts. It is only Emperor level but the AI might be given Deity or even Sid level unit support to make it less smooth. I remember playing a Monarch level GOTM with AI unit support increased to Sid (GOTM 27 iirc) and starting with 3 settlers and it was a rather tough one. Not a walkover, that was for sure.

15-02-2005, 23:57
Hmm - it might have helped to know that!

16-02-2005, 09:56
quote:Originally posted by col

Randy's game shows all the hallmarks of map knowledge. He seems to be able to head for each capital and take it out with a minimum number of moves and maximum amount of luck.

Something smells.

Yes, that is my impression also.

FWIW: The G/COTM is a lot more fun now with Ainwood running it instead of cracker (which is not a knock on cracker), simply because the games "feel" like normal (no mayor modding) Civ3 games again...

@Kemal: I agree with akots. The current GOTM mods/team really closely scrutinizes the games, so cheating (though probably not impossible) has become much more difficult than before.
Aeson's even played COTM9 using an exploit (he didn't submit), as an evaluation if it should be banned.

It'd be nice to see some other CDZ people in the COTM though... :)

16-02-2005, 11:38
quote:Originally posted by Darkness

[quote]Originally posted by col

It'd be nice to see some other CDZ people in the COTM though... :)

Yes, but don't count on me. [blush2] Is RoP rape still allowed ? [lol] I was tired competing with people using exploits I didn't want to use. Also tired to have a strict and regular schedule (one game per month felt like doing homework in the end for me).

I'm currently preparing a ruleset of my own, and I could bet my bollocks that it wouldn't fit in GOTM at all. [ponder]

16-02-2005, 15:50
Please make sure to read the changes that have been implemented by mad-bax in the game without players knowing about these changes.

Here is the link, see post number 1:

This is getting a bit ridiculous, I know. Well, we can drop off if we feel like. I've read the list about an hour ago and was thinking of dropping off immediately. But after an hour, my head cooled down a little bit and now it does not seem to be that dramatic. After all, we don't compete with mad-bax but with other teams and I sincerely hope they were as ignorant about these changes as we were. I know for sure, team Offa has been ignorant and looks like they missed the Philo gambit as well.

16-02-2005, 15:52
I read them and thought we would never have gone for Philo if we had known the starting setup.

But youre right. Its the same for everyone - and even if it isnt there is no reason we cant just enjoy the game we play. I havent played an SG for a looooong time. Lets just have some fun and not worry too much about the competition.

16-02-2005, 16:05
Best thing I can see is the reduced upgrade cost from 3 to 2.

Now it only costs 60 gold (only??) to upgrade our warriors!

780gold = 13 warriors!!



16-02-2005, 16:19
quote:Originally posted by col
... Lets just have some fun and not worry too much about the competition.

I'm for it with both hands.

Let's make a plan then and try to stick to it. Hopefully Kingreno can post a summary of our current situation. @Kingreno: please...

16-02-2005, 20:47
yeah yeah.




I say we should not be focussing at warriors when we still are far away from settling even close to the cap cities. Also, Temples should start appearing soon as they will be needed. so I'd say switch from mili to settlers and temples (in some cities).

16-02-2005, 21:05
When did Japan declare ?? Did I miss that?

Lt. Killer M
16-02-2005, 21:05
I agree on switching to settlers - with the warriors (the vet ones) we have now and our cash reserves we can quickly change over to military mode whenever we need to!

16-02-2005, 21:07
Nice city names [groucho]

16-02-2005, 21:35
Bonus marks for matching the city names to their namers. (No marks for egomaniacal Colopolis and Colville)

16-02-2005, 23:15

Eindhoven switches to granary...that was supposed to be there a lot earlier.
Colopolis, Colville and Bastard also switch to granary.
Arse to temple fopr cultural expansion towards china.
2 warriors in Orenburg are idle. 2 move to future setlespots for barbcampprevention. 1 to arse to reinforce the frontline. 1 is mp.
Micromanage the new granary producing cities to get more shields to finish the grany before growth. The setler goes to the dies as I read somewhere that we wanted that.

IT: 4 chinese units (spear, 3 war) approach arse...

1225BC: Orenburg builds war, start another one. easternmost curragh spots purple border!

IT: Our regular fortified warrior on a hill defeats archer and warrior of china without even a scratch. he is promoted to veteran! 1 more spear gets towards arse. 3 warriors line up next to it, the chinese spear goes to a mountain.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200521621612_1200siege of arse.jpg

1200BC: I now have 4 warriors in arse, 3 are fortified. I make no peace as we need one more turn of warhapiness. The purple border belongs to the Iroquois.
Setler goes to dyes, connected in one turn. MM all cities so it is all nice.:D

-Our vet warrior Loses from reg warrior in arse. -1 hp
-Our reg war defeats reg archer near Canton, promo to vet, -2h.
-Our vet war defeats reg war in arse, -2hp

1175BC: I make peace with Mao, and we gain the city of Tientsin in the process. Nice, since he will not do it for tientsin AND ONE gold. LOL. I take it since we are building setlers and temples so our mili will not be stronger to his next turn. :D

Mongols have Poly, Carthage has MM. I refuse to trade as prices are too high. Curraghs need to meet some one soon

As we lose warhapiness with China, the perfectly timed city of Cameltopolis is founded on the dyes, keeping tax at 100%.

IT: Chinese units leave our lands.

1150BC: paramaribo builds setler, more ordered.

I whipp in a temple in Klei Mi Am mors[whipped]

IT: ---

1125BC: Klei builds temple, to rax.

finaly some trades.

Give HBR and math to China for MM and 1 gold.
Mongols want 500 gold, Math and MM for Poly...combined other civs have 130 gold so I see no deal yet.

IT: Mongols and China move units towards Mountainious area, there will be barbs there. We shoudl investigate and see if we can snatch teh 25g.

1100BC: I Found the city Up Yours, 3 tiles NE of Paramaribo, the cow is now finaly used. I set to temple to flip Kago. or so.

Mongolds learned Math and MM. somehow. Japs wanna talk peace, for 2 gold. no thanx, togu, I'll keep the WH.


As can be seen most granaries are nearly finished. Also, I will whipp a temple in Spice as it has no grass to use now, and because we can in 3 turns.

IT: Rien...

1075 bc: Orenburg warrior, it is now size 5 and I decide a temple is okay now.

IT: a Jap galley comes out of Kagoshima, no units landed on our side, my guess is it will head to Spice, unless it has a setler.

1050 BC:
-Paramaribo setler, again.
-Colville Granary, setler
-Bastard Granary, setler

-Paris, France, builds the Pyramids.:(
-Orleans, France, builds the Oracle.[:o]
-Beijing, China, builds the MoM...................[aargh]

I move units arround. Decide no peace with Japs yet.

IT: Japanese galley lands no units.

-Colopolis Granary, harbour. we need one for trading some day, and colville is using the game anyways now.

I move units, mainly warriors to tactical positions if the Japs land. Workers are done near Colville and Colopolis and head to road towards the Spices. If we connect them before we make peace with Japan we should be able to maintain 100% tax.

IT: Damn, Japanese Swordsman lands near our Dyescity...gotta make peace this turn.

1000BC: Make peace with japan for 20 gold. better then lose a city on our only dyes...I feel I defended well since usually the AI lands a warrior, not a swordsman. I could have taken a warrior.[blush2]

I whipp in a temple at spice and found a city called Giant Hooters.

Lux to 10%.

All cities are timed very nicely for their builds! I suggest to take a very close look at the MM as this dense build has many, many possibilities. On important cities some info:

Paramaribo: setler fac. needs 16 shields for setler in 2. get 7 spt. will use forrest on growth for total of 16.
Eindhoven: Granary in one! after that setler/worker
Colopolis: Harbor in 6, has no growth now. since it is on a river and has a granary it will grow large fast. let it finish harbor and then grow.
Colville: Made it a 4-turn-setler fac! setler in 2 including shields from growth.[cool]
Orenburg: Temple in 2. I suggest we finish that. after that warriors.
Bastard. Let it finish the setler and after that it is a 2-turn worker fac at size 6![cool]
Arse: baracks and units.

Rest: whipp in temple, baracks when possible/desirable.

Workers, road towards the Spices! Then improve as needed.

Scouting: The curraghs are trying.

Sneaking thought: Build a galley and open the hut on the island in the south as soon as we can only get currence/construction as techs! we may get very lucky.[evil]


I will upload the save at CFC.

16-02-2005, 23:56
quote:Originally posted by col

When did Japan declare ?? Did I miss that?

It was here as Killer so eloquently put it.

quote:(8) Japan wants 58 Gold. We can war happiness.

I guess they demanded and Killer gave them the old English salute!


17-02-2005, 00:36
That looks good. There is so much land to settle! Lets live in peace with the AI and make love and produce more baby-settlers and baby-workers! Let's breed!

Did we get the Forbidden Palace message? May be time to start it and then got to Golden Age immediately after it has finished? OCN should be around 20 according to mad-bax...

Do we need a dot map? If yes, I can try to make one tonight.

It sure plays like a rather difficult DemiGod. And tech rate can be insane. Not a good thing at all and no wonders for us left apparently.

17-02-2005, 00:42
I'm asking for a dot map.

Please akots.

I've posted my Got It at CFC, I see a nice growth spurt ahead of us, I'm still drooling over the 2x upgrade cost instead of 3x [fdevil]


17-02-2005, 00:43
Also we have 13 cities, OCN is 20 IIRC.


17-02-2005, 01:16
The most important issue might be as to when we want to switch to ICS build. I'll run some calculations when I get home but does not seem that it will happen soon. IMO, a city like Klei will be rather productive with Forbidden Palace even in Despotism, it is only distance 8.5 from the capital and we have second ring missing because of Japan and sea to the east. Actually, not so many cities at 1000BC considering we had a settler factory. But hopefully with granaries we'll catch up soon.

17-02-2005, 02:08
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

1175BC: I make peace with Mao, and we gain the city of Tientsin in the process. Nice, since he will not do it for tientsin AND ONE gold. LOL.

The AI will not EVER pay you to take their cities in C3C. Unless they are really really screwed.

Just like to show I'm reading ;)


17-02-2005, 06:24
I'm not sure everything is OK with this dotmap but the distance seems to be fine for corruption purposes. The cities on tundra however, are a bit too close to the capital so it might be building that many of them is not a good idea. I just hope we can get to Japan sooner or later and this would change a lot. Or that Kagoshima flips.

BTW, if anybody noticed, we can build SoZ not out of ivory but Celtic way, out of silk. [lol]

According to mad-bax, it should still produce AC, we can rename them to Geisha though. Seriously, should we build it or not?

156.67 KB

17-02-2005, 09:36
Please can we not build temples unless we need the border expansion!

Each temple is 3 warriors and that's 3 Gallic Swords!

I can't stress enough how little an extra 2 culture per turn will matter when the game is only a couple of hundred of turns long. You get 400 culture per temple throughout the life of the game maximum, maybe 600 with the older ones.

At the end of the game we will be getting over 1500 culture per turn.

Now tell me it's worth 30 shields now for a temple that will speed up our victory for 0.3 of a turn. [???]

17-02-2005, 09:38
Guys, it is very important we stop building temples now unless we really need the borders.

I would prefer barracks/warriors in all cases, or workers if they are big enough.

17-02-2005, 10:15
quote:Originally posted by col

Anarres technique for culture - iirc from the tournament - was to maximise area as quickly as possible to the dom limit by military means with cities built on normal spacing and only then to fill rapidly by ICS.

Going ICS too soon just doesnt give enough oomph. You need the land.

Of course, he may say all this is crap - but I recall he was the master at culture wins on Deity and Emperor.

17-02-2005, 10:24
If only they listened to you. ;)

17-02-2005, 18:12
Since we are stuck in Despotism, it might be reasonable to build/whip temples sometimes to get rid of extra population in corrupt areas. But certainly, mostly, the effort might go to military and workers especially considering cheaper warrior upgrades. Apparently, out of 5 tundra cities, just to grab the land, we need only E and H.

18-02-2005, 19:40
Damn I think I'm gonna have to ask for a skip on this one...

Got a new all singing all dancing laptop, but cant get Civ3 installed on it. [cry]

I can get either the Game of the Year Civ3 installed and running or the Gold Edition (includes PTW) but when I put C3C over the top either I get major corruption of the screen (for the Gold version) and eventually a pcx file missing error. Or with the GOTY edition I get past the initial splash and then it just CTD's :(


Its gonna be a little while until I can get back up and running again (might involve me buying Civ3 on CD again)


PS. I have until tomorrow night to get it working, but I aint hopeful. Please someone pick up before then? Akots?

18-02-2005, 20:41
@Meli: Please make sure you have vanilla patched to 1.29f before installing. And it might be a good idea to remove Civ2Gold completely trying to install on top of GOTY. Apparently this might require to remove them both first and then trying clean install with GOTY. But I'm not sure of how it should work. There is a thread at CFC but I cannot find it because search is disabled as usually. What I remember that in some instances it works and in other cases it just does not seem to work.

It is Anarres who is playing next to you. Last time we just swapped.

@Anarres: can you play? Till Monday? IMHO, it is critical for you to take the turns now and just post what is your vision of the game plan so that we can discuss and try to stick to some strategy.

19-02-2005, 00:06
Believe me I have tried everything I can.

I am a programmer and excel in support. I can work most things out.

Believe me I'm not complaining at your help, but I'm damn near pulling out me hair here.

It was Civ3Gold, it has Civ3 and PTW included. The main menu screen has 2 columns of 5 options. I then installed the C3c from the online download and then from clean from the C3C CD.

I then tried the Civ3 Game Of The Year (civ3 only) and installed online version of C3c and CD of C3C.

Both Civ3 vanilla versions were pre-patched to 1.29f. Thats the way it was straight out of the download (and I mean Direct2Drive not Kazaa [:p])

Now at best I can get C3C running, I could post a screenshot, but it wouldn't prove much.

Basically the main buttons are gone, the background to the load indicator when it is Associating AI colours and stuff is hashed.

Upon starting the game the window that normally shows your stuff in the bottom corner shows the background of various Iroquois Era Leaderheads, All Fscreen shots have a fucked up background and hitting F4 causes a general protection fault, apart from that its fine. The map displays fine. Right clicking tiles is fine, city view and Aerial (eye) view is cool.

I can play 10 turns guessing where buttons are and like not using F4 [:p]

But I think I am gonna have to skip.

Me not happy :(


19-02-2005, 01:24
Something is wrong.

This is as good as it gets.





19-02-2005, 01:43
This is probably meaningless, but those screens remind me of when I applied a too-high (or wrong) version crack to a c3c install.

19-02-2005, 01:51

http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-70199.html regarding possible VIA chipset problem (not fixed)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-94596.html regarding downloadable version problem (not fixed). May be Padma knows what is the issue in its current state and it is possible to pm him to ask since CFC is too huge to find anything meaningful.

19-02-2005, 01:55

This is really peculiar one: [lol]

20-02-2005, 01:50
Please someone take the game...

Or post something.


20-02-2005, 21:39
<s>No fucking answers at all.


What a team we have here huh?


EDIT: Removed unneccessary whinging, whilst still allowing people to read my half baked civ-induced madness...


20-02-2005, 22:12
I've posted at CFC that we wait for Anarres and if he does not show up, I will take it tomorrow.

21-02-2005, 12:57

Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but I have Civ3 and C3C running properly now!

I can take this today and post by about 6.30GMT if thats cool with you?

I realise that you are in America (I think [crazyeye]) and wont be awake for a while. So post when you can man...

Sorry about my grumpiness earlier, please bear with me as I was suffering from severe Civ Installation related anger and frustration and let it boil over into this thread.

Apologies again.


21-02-2005, 12:58

I ve read that psychologists specialize in that condition <s>nowadsys</s> nowadays

Edit: fixed a Killer typo ;)

21-02-2005, 15:03
Good news, Meli.
I have no idea what our 'official' play order is any more?

21-02-2005, 17:57
Me neither, sorry I've been AWOL...

Can anyone tell us what is happening now?

21-02-2005, 18:05
I will be playing the 10 turns, in about 30 to 45 minutes :D


21-02-2005, 18:06
Oh and next up it will be you anarres I believe.


21-02-2005, 18:07
After me that is.


21-02-2005, 18:14
Well, just take your time. :)

21-02-2005, 18:51
quote:Originally posted by anarres

Well, just take your time. :)

Time we don't have. The game should be progressing, we are behind at least a few turnsets compared to the slowest team playing it. When two players that are due are not able to play, it is always a major pain. But since both Meli and Anarres are OK, we can actually start rolling the game again.

I'm not saying we should sacrifice some gameplay quality or other RL duties and things for this one. But the game must move regardless. We are facing the deadline in this case.

21-02-2005, 19:45
Yes, but not MM'ing cities and taking 30mins instead of 2hours is what I am talking about, not leaving it for 24hours before playing, etc. :)

21-02-2005, 20:19
OK So I have played half the turns. Next 5 will be played on the way home on the train.

Will be posting the save up at about 9pm GMT.

Quick Poll then...

Which of the following have happened?

A) Japan spots an empty city and runs amok with a single Swordsman!
B) We meet 2 more civs?
C) We are at war with the Mongols?
D) Barbarian uprisings are reported!
E) I got to name a city?

This is a mulitple choice poll open to all.


21-02-2005, 21:37
May be B, D, and E all together?

Edited: And we lost all our gold which was put away for upgrades? [sad]

22-02-2005, 02:45
Well it was B,C and E.


Turns to follow.


22-02-2005, 02:45
Preflight check - Minor MM adjustments.

Turn 01 975BC - Eind Granary -&gt; worker. SpiceUpYourLife Temple -&gt; warrior. We are MM up on the Iroquois and MM, Philo and HBR up on the Indians. Nobody has the money to make trades worthwhile. Everyone else (except China) is Poly up on us. Would cost 560 gold. I dont think so. China cant afford (or wont make) GPT deals so not worth buying a tech they dont have yet.

Turn 02 950BC - Para Settler -&gt; settler. Orenburg Temple -&gt; warrior. Colville settler -&gt; worker. Para settler sent to A, Colville settler to F.

Turn 03 925BC - Eind worker -&gt; worker. Wander a curragh up a blind alley and meet the vikings! :D They are Lit, Poly and Construction up on us! Hmm 700 gold for Literature, 1418gold (all of it) and +45gpt for Construction... [:o] Up Yours! Whip the temple in Up Yours!

IT - Japs move that swordsman next to Giant Hooters. I'm hoping they are there for the view, but will wander an extra warrior there anyways.

Turn 04 900BC - Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior. Perfect timing. Colville worker -&gt; worker. Bastard settler -&gt; settler. Arse barracks -&gt; warrior. Up Yours! Temple -&gt; warrior. Eastern curragh spots Yellow borders :D NW curragh meets the Americans :D They are only Poly up on us. Price of Poly now drops to 487gold.

IT - Mongols move a settler and conscript warrior. Hmm maybe worth a war here? They only have 4 cities apart from their Capital? I have a 40% chance of winning, it would be in sodding mountains wouldn't it. Oh well I think I'll have a go. What they gonna do huh?

Turn 05 875BC - Eind worker -&gt; worker. Spice cultural borders expand. Christ that was close, we lose the first 2 hps and then kill the conscript. Oh and btw I declared war before attacking, and yes we had no deals outstanding first. 2 New slaves for us! 1 less settler for the Mongols! [fdevil] Doh stupid me, Yellow borders in the East are of course the far west end of the Mongol empire. Well the war with the mongols will allow some nice close Military Pics to be taken without annoying them (OK so thats pointless, declaring war annoyed them enough I think [:p]) Found Broadmoor on Site A start on warrior. Northern Curragh spots Orange borders! Buy a worker from China for 108gold. I decide to spend a little cash here and see what the chinese are up to in their capital city. Also if this map is a contiguous landmass according to MB then maybe there's a landbridge NW of Beijing. And it only costs 34 gold. They have no resources, only the visible (near their cap) furs connected and 4 spears in here! Also using the ever so sneaky Right Click on the visible horses shows they've not been roaded yet. Also surrounded by mountains Canton is not yet connected to the Cap.

Turn 06 850BC - Para settler -&gt; settler. Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior. Colopolis Harbour -&gt; SoZ. Its got the best spt we have. Colville worker -&gt; worker. Arse warrior -&gt; warrior. Zmrde founded (anyone speak Czech?) starts on Barracks (can be changed). Finally meet the England. Ah finally some tech choices, they have Poly but are down Writing, Maths and HBR. Give them HBR and Writing for Poly. Sell Poly to the Chinese for 111gold (all they had). Change Colopolis to ToA. It can switch back to SoZ if we lose out in this race. ToA in 56 turns. Orenburg has now hit size 6 and can happily switch to zero growth and do 10spt net. 1 warrior a turn and it has a barracks!

Turn 07 825BC - Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior (this will get tedious). Unix founded at C. Warrior ordered. Wander a warrior into Mongol lands, he has 1hp. Finishes next to 2 reg warriors and a reg archer and spots a further 2 reg wars and a reg archer plus a vet warrior!! Will consider roading iron soon. We currently have 1572 gold and a total of 27 warriors. 27x60 = 1620gold. We do +50gpt. Next turn we have 1622 gold and 28 warriors [:p] Oh and the mongols have iron connected. Tiensin size 3. Still going for food. 6 gross shields still nets 1 shield :( Switch from temple to barracks. Will grow in 7 turns (and riot) can rush barracks in 6 :D. Road on iron completes in 3 turns.

IT - Mongols kill 1hp warrior for no loss. Forbidden Palace Pop-up appears! Chinese building ToA.

Turn 08 800BC. Eind worker -&gt; worker. Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior. Arse warrior -&gt; warrior. Cameltopolis temple -&gt; warrior. Up Yours! Cultural influence expands. Another warrior moves in on supposed Mongol Capital looking to pillage. Buy worker from China for 108gold. China has CoL. Too expensive and not worth the effort.

Turn 09 775BC - Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior. Colville worker -&gt; worker. Klei Barracks -&gt; warrior. Spice warrior -&gt; warrior. Up Yours! warrior -&gt; barracks. Spices connected. Lux to 0%.

IT - Iron road completes. Reg Mongol warrior defeats our vet warrior for no loss [rolleyes]

Turn 10 750BC - Para settler -&gt; settler. Eind worker -&gt; worker. Orenburg warrior -&gt; GS. 4 turns to complete. Bastard settler -&gt; barracks. Arse warrior -&gt; GS. Upgrade 13 warriors for 780 gold. Clam Chowder founded, starts warrior.


i leave the end of turn trading to anarres.

There is a lot about and we have 835gold and +59gpt to trade.

Some civs have Construction (Carthage and Viking), Americans have Monarchy, China have Col. Viking have Lit. All other civs have the same as us except Iro, India and England who are behind various techs. England has a worker for sale.

There is too much for my feeble brain to take in and i gladly leave it to anarres.

We now have 17 cities, 13 GS's and 19 warriors.

Have fun :D


22-02-2005, 03:07
Some Pictures!!

Mongols lose a settler.

Chinese Embassy

Our lands except Tiensin!


22-02-2005, 03:09
Looks very promising. And it resembles Demi-God more than Emperor. Don't know why it is called Emperor. Anarres is UP then.

@Anarres: Please tell now if you cannot play within 72 hours.

We might spend some cash to stir phony wars between the AIs to slow tech pace down. And it might be a good idea to have FP (instead of SoZ) online before triggering Golden Age. Just random thoughts without looking at the save.

22-02-2005, 03:19
Few other points.

There is obviously a settler north of Eindhoven. Also one in Orenburg, was thinking this could go to join tiensin to the nation!
On the grass west of the lake north of Kiel seems favourite.

We dont have SoZ running atm, was swicthed to ToA, FP could eaily be done by Orenburg (10spt), costs 20 turns atm.


22-02-2005, 11:51
Me here, I will play tongiht. If we need to decide things before tonight lets discuss them now.

Note I can't open the save atm, I only have pics. I will try to get time in my lunch to read over these logs and to get my head ready for it.

22-02-2005, 19:40
What would be more important:

1) Consolidate overall, including building FP and may be SoZ and phony wars. Get even in techs.
2) Rush and kill with whatever GS we can get.
3) Continue REXing and build up.
4) Flexible approach combining all of the above.

Really, don't know, I have not looked at the save. IMO, SoZ is not much worth it, we can get a plently of GS which have identical stats to AC - 3/2/2. And it's not much of a culture.

22-02-2005, 19:54
Well my humble opinion is this.

We have just connected the Iron and I upgraded 13 warriors to GS.

This will be enough to take the Mongols IMHO. That will gain us some more cities.

We can also keep pumping out settlers from 2 cities (from 4 turn SF Para and Bastard (not 4 turn SF)).

Then, and this is the cunning bit, we disconnect the Iron again.

Keep building warriors in cities that have Rax and build raxes in the others.

When we have a nice number, reconnect the iron and remove the Chinese.

On the tech front, I tried to get across how much there is on offer at the moment.

Carthage and Vikings have monopoly on Construction.
America has a monopoly on Monarchy.
China has monopoly on Code Of Laws.
Vikings have monopoly on Literature.

Everyone else is either our equal or are techs down on us.

We have 1500gold (ish) and do about 55-57gpt.

We rock. You see why I left it for anarres? He's good at these things (no pressure [:p])

I would love to continue and play this as a proper SP game, with a proper Government and everything.

I didnt say we should build this, I started it briefly in Colopolis more of a prebuild for ToA. I can also be switched back to if we fail our ToA attempt. Free ACs are better than lots of wasted shields.

Finally most builds are just a placeholder for anarres to change!


22-02-2005, 20:10
Well, the only bad thing is that we are stuck in Despotism for a long-long time and cannot revolt until Communism which makes Monarchy or Republic completely useless. And if we are not researching, this means some spare cash, so the only reasonable use of it seems for upgrades.

There is a few concerns about ToA. For the temples which we have, their culture would double in 1000 years. For ToA "virtual" temples, it does not double. If we capture ToA, and then it expires, I'm not sure as of how the culture would be calculated in cities which had temples. The build date will be still shown correctly but it is unclear as to whether the culture would still be doubled. Hence, the anticipated date for 100K is around 1300-1500 AD give or take a few turns. Thus, it might be not so good idea to try to capture ToA. We would have a few temples with doubled culture and even though we would be able to save some gold, still it makes little sense since probably cpt will decrease overall. But not sure about it.

22-02-2005, 20:15
Was thinking more of the captured cities have an instant temple, makes a massive difference in war if the newly captured cities get 1) Happy people and 2) A bigger border.

Also stops the other AI from bloody settling in the cracks [:p]

On the other side it dies with Education, and if we want to attack with anything better than GS and Longbows then we are going to have to pass that point.


PS. I think that we are going to have to research Feudalism at some point. GS are good but we are NOT going to beat Muskets with them.

22-02-2005, 20:20
Oh shit !!!

One last thing I forgot to mention is that it would appear that the seas to our north are in fact an Inland sea!

Apart from the water between us and Japan it would appear that we could walk the long way round probably by the Mongols or maybe Chinese and get to the Jap eventually...

Are we even thinking of ferrying troops accross to Japan??


22-02-2005, 23:15
We should definitly get ToA at all costs!!

This is very important because I expect us to have as many cities as we can cram in outside our core, and rushing a temple in each will cost the world. We will build maybe 10 temples by hand, and their doubling will provide an extra 20 cpt (2 cpt per temple).

This will be nothing compared to the 60gpt saved from not having to build tamples, and the 120 gold per temple * 50+ temples it will cost to rush them in the first place...

22-02-2005, 23:38
Klei mi am Mors (thanks for *that* name [:p]) is IMO the best place to build the FP. It is only 50% corrupt or so and is distance 7 away, it is almost too close - but I will settle for it so we can start construction now.

23-02-2005, 00:41
The problem is what we are going to do with all this cash? There would be no way to rush anything with it. And not sure if we will be researching as well. And if it all goes to upgrades... would we need that many GS to kill everyone everywhere? Let's say by around 400 AD we get to domination limit or may be to 40% land. Let's then assume we need settlers to build than many cities. This means we need granaries and a lot of them. And whatever temples we will have before 300AD will have their culture doubled. So, it might mean around 200 cpt by the end of it (1300AD). Seems that if the landmass is the same, that the best shot in terms of getting a wonder, would be the Pyramids which would enable us to whip and grow pop for expansion. However, it is absolutely not clear for me in terms of balance.

23-02-2005, 01:19
preturn: I find 3 workers mining the iron mountin (started this turn). I stop them as that will be pillaged later, and there are also hills around waiting to be mined.

Build embassys in Carthage (75), England (54?) Iroquois (46), India (35), Scandanavia (129!) and America (also over 100...)

Lots of $$$ spent, but we need them at some point and it only gets more expensive. It did however tell us about the ToA race, and we are 100% definitely for sure not going to get it. To make it worse, here are the turns to completion:

Carthage: 13
Trondheim: 10
Washington: anarchy, but just over 350 shields and about 10 spt after anarchy (unknown when).

This is terrible news since both Trondheim and Washington are on the other side of the world, but 3 more civs are also buildign ToA, maybe will will get lucky. I will change Colopolis to SoZ unless somone objects.

I am still undecided if I should disconnect the iron asap, I think I will do it next turn after some more upgrades.

The thing we must decide immediately is the FP location. I am not going to play this until tomorrow night now because this decision is absolutely crucial to our game. I made a suggestion of Klei mi am Mors, if we can get comments that would be great. :)

The following are the pics from building embassys. I have decided to include all of them, if you object please say and I will make them just links.

83.64 KB

84.38 KB

75.77 KB

78.61 KB

81 KB

77.27 KB

23-02-2005, 01:27
Volcano is not good but we are not supposed to get them. At least I don't remember seeing any. Are you sure you have your graphics displaying correctly and not confusing goats on the mountain with volcano? May be you have not downloaded the GOTM graphics pack on the C3C copy you are playing?

The city seems a good location for FP otherwise.

23-02-2005, 02:49
Sorry, I realised my mistake and edited the post. :)

23-02-2005, 03:16
quote:Originally posted by anarres

We should definitly get ToA at all costs!!


This will be nothing compared to the 60gpt saved from not having to build tamples

The gained maintenance cost would lend us extra gpt thats true, but soon is 60gpt going to be that much?

Also this (no offence)
quote:...the 120 gold per temple * 50+ temples it will cost to rush them in the first place...

is slightly the wrong way of thinking, despotism = whipped slaves.
Temples cost 30shields. 1 slave=20shields. 2 slaves=40 shields and a temple. We can wait for the city to make 10shields and rush at size 3. Or if the city is large (4 or greater) you can rush the whole thing with 2 slaves. Well, you have to have at least 1 shield already invested. But at size 4 a city can rush a temple after waiting a turn. Imagine trying the culture diet on a newly captured city and whipping a temple at the same time. Or whipping settlers [fdevil]

We obviously want lots of lux (We have 3 already! [goodjob]). Notice England and America have the new LUXURY wool? It shows as a lux without picture on the embassy screens. There is 1 more lux than normal C3C on this map and will help a lot.

ToA would help, but I can see goods points for having and not having it. Its not a priority for me. How about the Great Wall? Not many of our cities would be over size 6, its a fun wonder for fighting.

Other thoughts on the game include thinking about our future opposition. Who do we need to take out? Vikings in C3C are a bugger for berserk infested galleys, and I recently lost 4 cities to berserk naval attacks. Iroquois have horses already. Boo. But why is that hill in the picture giving 3 shields and 2 food? Its bloody sheep (+2fpt, +1spt, 0+gpt) they mined it. I see. England have mined goats (same as sheep but mountains). India has horses 2 tiles from capital and hasn't connected it yet [crazyeye] Vikings have 2 game tiles chopped near capital and mined them both [cry] irrigated would be a nice SF for a non-agri civ.

Last point looking at the map. NorthWestern curragh suicided last turn of mine trying to meet a new blue civ (it was america, doh). But it does show a pink civ. Time to meet the French! Only Babs left after that.


23-02-2005, 06:03
Yes, it would be tricky to whip cathedrals, libraries, and universities. Brutal game it is. Pyramids might be required here IMO. Is Japan who is having them or somebody else? If it is Japan, might be we go for a naval expedition before they get to Samurai.

23-02-2005, 10:18
I dont see anyone else with iron. It will be nice if we only face spears!

23-02-2005, 12:40
I forgot that we had to whip when I wrote that! However does this mean no-one objects to my FP city suggestion?

Lt. Killer M
23-02-2005, 12:42
I certainly don't.

23-02-2005, 12:59
What is this? Some kinda Demo game?


FP sounds fine there...

But did mention?

There's probably about 5-8 warriors and at least 3 archers from the Mongols on the way now.

My warriors just saw them before dying near Mongols lands ;)



23-02-2005, 13:20
I intend to fight defensively against the mongols with warriors, and maybe a spear and archer.

Our GS's need to wait for the FP or we could waste a large part of our GA.

24-02-2005, 02:14
Turn 1 (730BC): Meli did you realise you left our galley at sea? It had a 50% chance of being sunk, but becuase it wasn't we meet the French! :)

No great news though, we are equal in tech. I establish an embassy:


I also pillage the iron this turn - GS's are no use to us until we get the FP online, and we have cash for upgrades...

The FP is being built in Klei mi am Mors, currently at 49 turns (I estimate somewhere from 15 to 25 turns).

2 cities on workers switch to warrior to allow them to grow. Now we are at war we can support size 6 cities with 2 mp (and mp units are plentiful).

AI: Japan declares on Carthage.

Turn 1 (730BC): Send several warriors west to scout, they are well spread out and will see any attack approaching. Also every worker in the western part of our empire is heading west at full speed to road over towards the mongols and to prepare the FP city's tiles. The last thing we want is enemy units appearing before we have an effective road structure to get between our westernmost cities and beyond.

Turn 2 (710BC): Found Feck on our east coast. Our only way to expand now is west, and soon we will need to head north and take out China. No way are the Mongols our first target - they are simply too far away for their cities to be productive.

AI: Carthage and China sign MA against Japan.

Turn 3 (690BC): Sell Philosophy to India for 47 gold, just because they are so behind.

Carthage: Col Con 18g
China: Col Con 150g
Vikings: Lit Con
America: Mon

AI: China and the Mongols sign MA against Japan. Some mongol warriors appear from the west (about 4 or 5 tiles from out cities), but after they move they are attacked from another tile out of sight. I guess they are Japanese, but where from???

French complete SoZ.

Turn 4 (670BC): Get ready for the lame ass assault the mongols are about to go on us with. We are on talking terms but they won't give us much yet. Lets batter whatever comes at us and wait it out for a good deal.

Here is the western front:


Turn 5 (650BC): Not much to say, except that I have to stop here. I was unexpectedly at work until 9.30pm and have only had 2 hours to play...

I promise to finish tomorrow!!

24-02-2005, 04:30
quote:Originally posted by anarres

we meet the French! :)

No great news though, we are equal in tech. I establish an embassy:

Apart from the fact that they have also already completed the Pyramids. And are bloody miles away. We are bottom middle and they are top far left, in fact so far left they may be right [crazyeye]

And yes I know I left the curragh at sea, I thought that light blue was a new civ and thought that suiciding would get us contact. It turned out to be more bloody Americans.

quote:Originally posted by anarres

but after they move they are attacked from another tile out of sight. I guess they are Japanese, but where from???

The Japs landed a sword next to our dyes city, cameltopolis? It worked its way steadily west from there. I was most worried when it was right next to a stack of 6 of our workers. [blush]


PS. Good job anarres! Keep going!

24-02-2005, 21:51
Please, try to finish your turns today.

IMO, this is more of the GOTM-style game and looks like the other teams have started expansion and by military means as well and we are essentially last in culture and close to the end in score. I like it this way since then the holy Celtic spring can be unleashed and we start killing all around and expanding like crazy while they will slow down. However usually it might be indeed a good idea to slightly postpone military expansion since there are a few more places to settle first. Second, we obviously want AI to revolt to Monarchy or Republic. Otherwise they would start whipping units which would give us more unneeded hassle and more cities will autoraze instead of being captured. Not sure about FP, it just take ages to build without GA. When it is half-ready, we can start rolling over with GS and finish it then faster.

Edited: So far, we are going to get the wooden spoon may be sharing it with jeffelamar, Barbslinger, and Bede. I would not certainly mind one but it does not make a good start for the team. My bets now go to Smackster with Offa coming second.

25-02-2005, 01:23
Turn 5 (650BC): continued...

AI: The Mongols appear to be retreating, and China is sending lots of units SW from it's territory (towards the Mongols I think). I suppose they could be going for Japan the long way round, but that is the whole width of the map! [lol]

Turn 6 (630BC): Rush barracks in Tientsin. Found a new city (Booze) to the SW of the FP city (on a river).

A trade opportunity has arisn:

Buy Literature from China for 309 gold.
Buy CoL from Carthage for Lit and 150 gold.
Buy Construction from France for Lit, CoL and 61 gold.
Sell Japan Lit for 81 gold.

I know I've just spent 439 gold but we now have 3 new techs and are up or level with everyone except America (who needs these 3 techs and has Monarchy to sell, but won't come close with all 3 + all our cash). We have only construction left and I set one of our specialists to scientist.

Wow!!! I just made peace with the mongols and got 57 gold and a city!! [eek]


AI: America completes ToA.

Turn 7 (610BC): We now have 74 units out of 80 allowed. Keeping up expansion in line with unit produciton will be an issue soon. When the FP is online we need to quickly attack China and take them over. Not a bad idea since they are quite powerful and our immediate neighbour.

AI: The Japanese cascade to and complete the Great Library. Not to far away to (relatively) easily steal later on if we need/want to. Carthage cascade to and complete the Great Wall. The Vikings cascade to and complete the Great Lighthouse (yeah, thanks! [rolleyes]).

Turn 8 (590BC): Sell CoL to Japan for 46 gold, 2 gpt and a worker.

Turn 9 (570BC): ...

Turn 10 (550BC): Found Don'tBuildSouthOfHere again in the west. We are maxed out in this area now and our 3 current settlers are all headed west, to go over the mountain range and to grab as much of the land before China and the mongols get it.

There is a 1 tile of fresh water 3 west from Don'tBuildSouthFromHere, with a horse nearby. It is essential we grab it, so there are a few warriors there to guard it from mongol settlers (none spotted yet). Out nearest settler is 6 turns from the forrest SW of the water, which is where I would settle.


The FP city needs a hill mined to get an extra shield, the workers on the forrest nearby was a mistake, they were destined for the hills but I forgot. [blush]

Please also no more cities on the tundra. They are bad for our empire because they produce few shields and increase the corruption in a lot of other cities. This will only get worse as our second core increases around our FP. It is much better to leave it empty, even if the AI comes and settles there (in fact that can be quite good for you ;)).

25-02-2005, 01:30
Save is uploaded as usual...

25-02-2005, 01:42
I would not worry too much about research or unit support, just to make sure that all SFs are functioning and go grab some land. If we would want, we can certainly jump the Palace to the center of the estate with a leader. I don't think that the tundra cities will be increasing our corruption too much, at least I have checked and they would be not contributing to the rank corruption in the core substantially since their distance from the capital is over 9. They are good for whipping every 20 turns with argi trait and not more often if we delay them for too long, this would make it impossible to build any culture in them later in the game unless we would be joining workers there accompanied with military police. Then, it would be possible to whip more often but still there would be a long way to libraries. Otherwise, we can get them in these cities within 60 turns (considering temple which goes first).

Edited: Sorry, that number (60 turns) might not be very accurate since not all of them are on the river and they grow in 20 turns and don't grow with specialist without MP.

25-02-2005, 01:47
Please don't build more tundra cities. They are right next to the FP and you are comdemming cities that would be 60 to 70% corrupt to be 70 to 80% corrupt, and probably about 10 of them in the end. Over time this is huge and we will have many many cities to whip - starting when we take China.

Taking about the war, the FP will be about 23 turns taking in to account the mined hill. Maybe it will be best to attack before the end of that, but I don't think the GA will speed it very much and it will be a lot less powerful until the FP is built. Just IMO...

27-02-2005, 16:30
@Col: Any progress out there by chance?

27-02-2005, 18:01
Just back from the pub. Will sleep off a few pints then play this eve.

27-02-2005, 19:13
quote:Originally posted by col

Just back from the pub. Will sleep off a few pints then play this eve.

Sounds like a perfect way to prepare for this game [goodjob]

Who won anyway?


27-02-2005, 21:43
ok Here we go.
Usual preturn check.

Nothing much to do with sliders. Everything at zero. Nothing about to grow except Colville which is making workers.
We are at peace with everyone. Only America has any tech - Monarchy - and they arent interested.

Press return. Nothing dramatic happens. A few more warriors built.

1. 530bc There are a couple of settlers to move. Go west young man. There is still land to fill that can beproductive after the FP is finished.
Mongol settlers coming east.Looks like we need a mobile wall to bottle them up.

2. 510bc Why are we building non vet warriors? Rax ordered in Eindhoven. Moving wall is holing back Mongols. Something appropriate about that.
Galley ordered for settler transport - there is land to the east too and a base near Japan will be handy for later operations.

3. 490bc Everything cycling nicely. China will offers a worker for 120 gold. I dont think so. China is moving archers towards Mongolia. History does repeat.

4. 470bc China offers ROP and alliance v Japanese. Dont want alliance but I take the ROP if they throw in 50 gold too. It will help our settlers reach some land to the west.
The MOngol settler is heading for the horses. Chinese archers are moving to intercept.

5. 450bc Eindhoven grows to 7 and needs a taxman. Settlers heading west.Japan now has monarchy and will sell for exorbitant price. Noone has enough money for us to recoup the investment.

6. 430bc Colford built. Hiawatha will offer Currency for 500gold+Construction +CoL. Buy and sell it around for 700 gold before they do. Hmm - Feudalism may not be far away. Time for war??

7. 410bc The Vikings start Hanging Gardens.

8. 390bc Nothing happened.

9. 370bc Japan starts HG. Settler nearly ready to grab another lux. Markets started in our bigger cities.

10.350bc Colhill and Colmount founded. A settler is waiting for the ferry to arrive in Upyours to gain a foothold over the sea.
Another settler is heading for the gap in the Chinese empire. Quick check that everything okish to hand over and my indiscretions are suitably disguised...

A quiet spell of growth. War is coming rather quickly. FP still has 15 turns to go. We have another 13 turns of ROP with China who is our obvious target.

27-02-2005, 21:45
State of the Nation - hmm - cant upload pic. System error. I'll try at CFC

27-02-2005, 22:15
I bet the picture is over 200kb, that seems to be the limit here :(

Anyway great turns. Reminds me of a nice chinese curse. "May you live in interesting times."

These obviously weren't [:p]


27-02-2005, 23:38
Sounds good, I'll try to play today.

28-02-2005, 14:09
Col, we have a dodgy size limit here we need to work around...

What are our plans now? Build up the warriors and gold for the war in 15 turns?

28-02-2005, 15:46
I'm not sure. You are not the only one working, so I spent most of weekend in the lab and did not look at the save. But if we are running out of space and the Chinese cities had grown in size and they had revolted to some non-pop-rushing government, there is little sense in delaying the war too much. We need to get the land and cities and the sooner the better imho. FP is important but since our GA is in Despotism, there is not much benefit to it. I'm thinking also on building a few galleys and a base in Japanese lands to start expanding there as well.

We have to finish the domination phase essentially around 400-600AD at most and start building culture rather soon.

28-02-2005, 16:11
Essentially I went for the build up option. There are only a couple more sites in the west. There is a galley and settler ready in a couple of turns to go east. I retained the option of ROP raping the chinese any time in the next 10 turns. The ROP expires in 13 turns. If we reconnect iron and upgrade, we could probably take them out completely in one turn with a ROP rape.

Lt. Killer M
28-02-2005, 16:23
there's one thing we should maybe do, depending on the map: use the ROP to move half our forces to the other side of the Chinese area. That way we can conquer faster even without an ROP rape.

28-02-2005, 16:26
That was my fallback position ;)

28-02-2005, 16:50
Yes, lets use their networks to get in place.

I would prefer to not break our rep quite so soon, but maybe that's just me...

28-02-2005, 17:45
Well - we should ROP rape when we gain most from it. It may well be that we can later sign a ROP with someone else and then rape them. Its obviously a one use tactic - but we should use it. It just saves so much time...

We do have a ROP with the chinese for another 13 turns. We can either time our war to coincide with the end of the ROP - or we rape them. I thought we gained more than we lost in signing the ROP - moving settlers quickly- and it would at least allow us to position our troops ready for attack. I was trying not to take too comittal a postion without discussion.

28-02-2005, 18:46
Reputation will be trashed but it is possible to RoP multiple times, just need to renegotiate peace to get RoP. Same thing regarding gpt deals. Sometimes it is worth it, sometimes it is not. I'm not sure as to what be the best solution for us regarding China. It would be also neat to try to stir some phony wars just to make sure the tech rate is slow and our GS can be of good use for the future. But I'm afraid it will soon come to knights. Elite GS is as good as vet knight certainly, but we will not have too many of elites since being non-militaristic does not help. So, once we face muskets, casualties will be high and may be even too hight for a swift charge or RoP rape for that be. Remember, it is Emperor level played more like Demi-God.

02-03-2005, 00:51
So any progress here?


02-03-2005, 01:01
I'll do my best to play today at night.

02-03-2005, 07:57
Preflight check. Sell HBR to India for worker+45g. There are a few thing that me stupid does not understand. First, why would we need many markets? We should have enough unit allowance and cash for upgrades as well, at least for now. Would not it be better to build libraries instead? It is a cultural game after all, not a spaceship race. Second, why we are mining mountains? Third, should not we be building settlers all over the place and warriors? I therefore dare to switch a few builds as outlines below.

Para has been fucked up as a settler factory and need 6 food to grow while it can have only 5. I know, somebody cannot be arsed but I switch it to temple otherwise it will get to size 3. Colville is somehow OK on food but lacks shields to make settler in 2, so can make only in 3 but Iíll try to micromanage around and find some extra BG tiles. Colopolis is having some wonder prebuild apparently but which one? Sistineís? We should abstain from learning Feudalism since we lose ability to build GS but STAW would be nice. Eindhoven is a nice settler factory, so may be good idea to let it go back to SF by going back to size 5-6 when it can grow in 2 turns and pump out settlers in 4. Hence, market switched to settler. Orenburgh was making 9 shields, managed to 10 and will make vet warriors only, nothing else. This turn will make archer since it has already 10 shields in the bin. Bastard is also a SF but somewhat low on shields and does not even have temple while builds market, so switched to temple. Arse switched to warrior from market losing a few shields though. Alas, FP in Klei cannot be accelerated. Tientsin whips temple losing scientist which goes to tax collector. Camel has a worker finished but does not have a second citizen for this, so goes to library. Zmr cannot get settler in 6 since it will grown only in 16, goes to temple instead. Very tempted to whip temple in Donít but city might be rather productive once FP is online Since it is a long way, temple whipped. Colpool will follow in 2 turns and Colford in 6.

We donít have contact with Babylon. Just wondering where are they hiding. It is all peaceful out there which is not good. May be time to stir some wars. France and America looks like powerful guys. Declare war to Joanne and buy in Abe for Currency. Fell free to arse me for what Iíve done. We need to build more roads towards China and Mongols.

[1] All quiet.

[2] Uneventful, iron is being roaded again. Will start MP shuffling with reg warriors retreating from frontlines.

[3] Same old stuff, nothing exciting.

[4] Banzai founded in Japanese lands. The city increases our corruption in the core slightly but it will be fairly productive.

[5] A worker joined to Klei gaining 2 turns on FP build, iron online, 17 warriors upgraded to GS in Arse. We have 32 GS now and FP ready in 9 turns. Iron disconnected again. Traded worker from England for CoL.

[7] GS moving up to position themselves for attack on China. That would be on Killerís turns though.

[9] MP shuffling started. Iím building cities almost inside Chinese territory. We can get them even without RoP rape in a few turns, just need may be 5-10 more GS. Somehow, I have a feeling that we are delaying a bit too much. Still no trace of Hammurabi.

[10] Leaving an unmoved settler and 3 galleys, may be next player will be able to find some use to them. There is no decent trading opportunities and 3 turns left in RoP deal with China as well as 4 turns on our FP build. We can get to 6 Chinese cities on a single turn with properly positioned troops. There is still some cash reserve left which can be used for a couple of connect-disconnect tries for our iron. Also, IMO, Japan better be taken care of ASAP. We certainly donít want to battle the Samurai. Neither we want to capture TGL too soon on the other hand. But we can leave Kyoto alone or capture it and gift to somebody else before it gets us to Education. Tech pace seems to be considerably slower now but a few civs have Republic, so after they revolt, they will be tech leaders apparently. Mongols are also weak, but their land is poor in food as well as resources. IMO, we better start working on some culture.

Current battle plan against China (requires positioning of troops):


Japanese lands (bird's eye view). Workers are improving cattle there and chopping forest for harbor/temple in Banzai.


Current disposition on the west. Actually, I don't understand a point about "not building south" of Don't because the city(ies) there would be having a few grassland tiles and tundra forest and can be rather productive and grow some population. And we can go full ICS beyond Don't imvho.


Killer is up and war is due in 3 turns since FP will be ready also in 3 once we are in GA.

02-03-2005, 13:27
South of "Don't build south of here" you will have cities with little production that will increase the rank in 5 or more productive cities.

All for the sake of 0 extra usable land tiles...

02-03-2005, 14:03
quote:Originally posted by akots

[4] Banzai founded in Japanese lands.

Lt. Killer M
03-03-2005, 19:53
I expect a ban @ CFC for standing up to racist Nazi bastards. if so, i resign from this game.

03-03-2005, 21:41
You can always change your name!

03-03-2005, 22:21
Who is next? Meli?

03-03-2005, 22:24
I just read your post at CFC KR, looks like it's you! :)

03-03-2005, 22:25
There is still time to play and post. And you can still post here and upload the save to the SGOTM page even if banned for some time. We just paste your logs from here at CFC. No need for resignation imho.

04-03-2005, 00:12
I agree, I didn't and still don't know who's turn it is though? [???]

04-03-2005, 00:26
It's Killers turn still.

KR would be next but I would wait for Killer.

Maybe he'll feel better after a nights dancin'


04-03-2005, 00:46
ok, I Am playing now.

Killer can go after me, that would be 10 turns of GA.

04-03-2005, 00:58
Maybe that is a good comprimise, I certainly want Killer to continue even if CFC can't deal with racist posters. Why should BNP scum affect this game??

04-03-2005, 03:15
Take a look at trades first.

Buy Monarchy from the Mongols for Construction and Currency, they throw in 47 gold (all they have).
I switch Colopolis to the Hanging Gardens, MM it to be done in 3, we may get lucky. I decide to do this as I cannot see us getting any other wonder. We don't want feudalism.
I will trade Monarchy to China on the turn we attack, they will be in anarchy for the first 3 turns of the war.

Buy english vs the French for currency.

Declare war on the Iroquois for...well...their face?

MA India vs France and Iro's, Ghandi pays US 11 gold
MA Japan vs Iro's, Togukawa pays US 28 gold

This will draw a serious ammount of Jap troops away from us.

MA the Vikings vs the French, we pay 71 gold.

Builds. I switch the libs back to markets. We need the happyness and the taxincome. Libs will come later. Some cities need a courthouse, decide on that later.

Why Does Up Yours need an Aquaduct???? It is on a river... clearly...

I switch some minor thingies.

moves. several warriors are ready for upgrades but are not near Rax! why? I immediately move them so we can attack China in 4 turns.

IT: Several Chinese units move arround. Many japanese units leave their cities to head for Iroquois lands!
We reconnect the iron.

130 BC;

Cham showder-settler-rax

China got Monarchy and the republic, they go to anarchy.
I make an embassy with the Mongols for 34 gold. they have horses but no iron. one lux (dyes), they are on 100% science, have zero gold in the vaults and are a Monarchy. The Cap is defended by 3 spears.
I MA the Mongols against the Iroquois as well, as they are close to some cities in the west.

I upgrade 10 warriors and pillage the iron. we now have 50 GS.

IT: Carthage wants a RoP (or units removed, I sign the RoP as I have 2 warriors in their lands) I should have signed it earlier...


Giant Hooters-war-war

No trades possible. America has engineering has the only MA tech. we need to get Babylon!!

Schni Schna Schnappi founded in the west.

Move Units arround and MM the cities.

IT: Chinese units move a bit. Carthage is full of loose units from various civs.

90BC: :D



GS move into attack positions! 7 cities targeted for first strike.


IT: Nothing happens! that also means all civs changed their Hanging gardens preb to colloseums/markets/setlers/whatever!


Klei-FORBIDDEN PALACE-marketplace
Giant Hooters-war-war
hmm, I could ask the chinese to remove or declare war, and get them furiosu first, but I have no idea that is allowed. Since it is very much against my own spirit and against CDZ's as well, I simply declare myself :)

I begin the attack on Chinan.

[u]GS are all vets unless mentioned otherwise.</u>

GS defeats vet spear at chinan. -0 hp.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20053421259_70bc GA.jpg
We enter a GA!

GS defeats reg spear at Chinan, -3hp,
We capture the city!

GS defeats vet spear at Chengdu, -2hp, protes to elite!
GS defeats vet spear at Chengdu, -2hp
GS retreats from reg spear at Chengdu, -1hp for the spear
GS defeats reg spear at Chengdu, -2hp
GS Loses from reg spear at chengdu, -2hp.
GS defeats reg (2/3) spear at Chengdu -3 hp
GS defeats reg (1/3) spear at Chengdu.
we capture the city!

GS defeats vet spear at Kaifeng, -1hp, promotion to elite!
GS defeats reg spear at Kaifeng, -2hp, promotion to elite!
We capture the city!

GS defeats vet spear at Tatung, promotion to elite!
GS loses from reg spear at Tatung, -2hp, promo to vet.
GS defeats vet (2/4) spear at Tatung, -1hp
We capture the city!

GS defeats vet spear at Nanking, -2hp
GS defeats vet spear at Nanking, -2hp
We capture the city!

GS loses from reg spear at Canton, -1hp
GS defeats reg spear at Canton, -1hp
GS defeats reg (2/3) spear at canton, promo to elite!
We capture the city!

GS defeats reg horseman near Canton.
GS defeats reg horseman near Tabriz.
I capture 5 Chinese workers.

5 more warriors upgraded, Iron pillaged.

I carefuly move units arround to prevent Chinese counterstrike, only one Horse can reach Kaifeng.


I switch some builds to Markets.

IT: Chinese reg horse Defeats GS at Kaifeng, -1hp...


Up Yours-aquaduct-lib (to presure Kagoshima)

Elite GS defeats reg spear at Hangchow, -1hp
GS defeats reg spears at Hangchow, -2hp
GS Defeats reg archer at Hangchow.
We Capture the City!

GS Retreats from Archer near Tabriz, -1hp

GS Loses from reg warrior in Iroquois lands. fuck!

Elite GS (4/5) defeats reg (2/3) horse near Kaifeng, -1hp
GS defeats Horse near Kaifeng, -2hp.
GS defeats Horse near Kaifeng, -1hp, promo to elite!

I capture 4 workers in various area's.

Builds: whipped a temple at deva.

IT: Japan and China sign Peace. like I care.
Chinese reg (2/3) archer loses to our GS (1/4)!

Canton Riots (quelled resistors)

TPS founded on near jap land.

GS defeats reg Archer near Beijing, -1hp, promo to elite!

Elite GS defeats reg spear at Ningpo.
Elite GS (4/5) defeats reg spear at Ningpo, -3hp.
We have Captured the city!

GS defeats reg spear at Tsingtao, promo to elite!
GS defeats reg spear at Tsingtao, -2hp, catpured setler.
We Have autorazed the city!

IT: 2 chinese horses move in from the far west.



GS defeats reg spear near DBSoH, -3hp

SoIBuildNorthOfHere is founded near the unused goats!

GS retreats versus reg spear, and cata at Shanghai.
GS retreats versus reg spear, and cata at Shanghai.
GS defeats reg spear at Shanghai, -2hp
GS loses from reg spear at Shanghai, -2hp, promo to vet
Elite GS retreats against reg spear at Shanghai, -1hp
GS defeats reg spear at Shanghai, -2hp
GS retreats versus reg (2/3) spear, at Shanghai.
GS Defeats reg (2/3) spear at Shanghai. -2hp
GS defeats vet (2/4) spear at Shanghai! -1hp
We have Captured the city!

GS defeats vet spear near Tiensin, -2hp

15 GS get near Beijing! it should fall next turn.

IT: Vikings and France sign peace. bleh.

10 AD;


Elite GS defeats reg horse near Tabriz, -1hp

GS retreats from reg spear, and cata, at beijing, -1hp
GS defeats reg spear at beijing, -2hp
Elite GS defeats reg spear at beijing, -4hp
Elite GS defeats reg spear at beijing, -3hp
We Have captured the MOM in Beijing!

Elite GS defeats reg spear near beijing, -2hp
Furs-colony made near Beijing.

lelijke Heks Founded somewhere unimportant.

IT: nothing.

30 AD;


Elite GS defeats reg horse near Tabriz, -2 hp.

Tasmania Founded, on an island. we beat a jap galley to it.

IT: barb loses to our warrior on Tasmania.
Iro's take an Indian town. blabla


50AD: Killer's turn!

Let's finish the Chinese on the mainland and try to get the far away city and:


Incense is nearly connected, 5th lux!

Good Luck, I am too tired to think now.[blush]

04-03-2005, 04:07
Schni Schna Schnappi founded in the west.

And I thought you wanted to win by culture.[scratch]

04-03-2005, 05:23
Looks good, China is almost out. Need to settle the gaps and start on temples. It might be good to go for settlers first there and then for temples but first for temples might be OK as well. It looked like substantial overkill though and this means we are somewhat behind the schedule.

We can try to take the remote Chinese cities for peace and then capture their capital later on. And imvvho, we don't need markets but need culture instead. We will be having enough happiness and there is not much need for huge cities. All we need are warriors, settlers, and workers. We can get gold from tax collectors in corrupt cities if we need to.

04-03-2005, 05:41
@Killer: It might be you had problems because you played with a copy of C3C without downloading the SCOTM package. Please check this and then it is your turn.

So far the score and cultural graph looks like we are heading for the wooden spoon. We need to start working on Mongols and Japanese and as soon as possible to get more land. It might be also worth consideration to build a navy and go sail to France to capture the Pyramids. Otherwise, the situation is very grim. We are facing very seasoned expert GOTM players in these games with huge experience and there is no way ordinary easy-going approach will yield good results.

We need to irrigate all Chinese lands and whip as much culture as we can out of it imo.

04-03-2005, 06:26
quote:Originally posted by akots
BTW, take a look at this GOTM spoiler by Randy, what do you think?

To me looks like a new Ribannah scandal is going to emerge. SirPleb is really unhappy with this kind of stuff and mods did not dare to edit his post:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110786&page=1&pp=20 see post number 12.

Looks like Randy fucked up. He is not in the GOTM results and deleted all his posts about that GOTM on around March 1st. Don't know what it was, probably reloading. At least the guy had some sense in him and did not start the argument with Ainwood. May be it was but by pm though. So, watch out for Randy. [sad]

04-03-2005, 10:20
Having seen some of the evidence, I'm sure they did the right thing.

04-03-2005, 11:23
quote:Originally posted by akots

quote:Originally posted by akots
BTW, take a look at this GOTM spoiler by Randy, what do you think?

To me looks like a new Ribannah scandal is going to emerge. SirPleb is really unhappy with this kind of stuff and mods did not dare to edit his post:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110786&page=1&pp=20 see post number 12.

Looks like Randy fucked up. He is not in the GOTM results and deleted all his posts about that GOTM on around March 1st. Don't know what it was, probably reloading. At least the guy had some sense in him and did not start the argument with Ainwood. May be it was but by pm though. So, watch out for Randy. [sad]

Yeah, I noticed that too. PMed Ainwood about it, but there won't be a "cracker-style" announcement like with the Ribannah issue. They'll want to keep it as low-profile as possible, which is logical IMHO...

@Akots: Nice, fifth place! [goodjob]

04-03-2005, 11:35
@Darkness: Well, you don't play GOTM and I don't have time to play both COTM and GOTM. But I like the GOTM more hence playing it mostly. I've played the vikings COTM9 game to the end of Middle Ages only, read the spoilers and decided to abandon it. I was too far behind and only 3 hours left to the deadline... [sad]

I still cannot grasp what I'm doing wrong in the C3C games. Not that I screw them completely, just cannot compete with you and other stronger players there yet. Need more experience apparently and different style of play with higher emphasis on research and military and less on land-grabbing. Old habits are difficult to abandon.

But your performance in COTM is very strong!

04-03-2005, 11:50
quote:Originally posted by akots

@Darkness: Well, you don't play GOTM and I don't have time to play both COTM and GOTM. But I like the GOTM more hence playing it mostly. I've played the vikings COTM9 game to the end of Middle Ages only, read the spoilers and decided to abandon it. I was too far behind and only 3 hours left to the deadline... [sad]

I still cannot grasp what I'm doing wrong in the C3C games. Not that I screw them completely, just cannot compete with you and other stronger players there yet. Need more experience apparently and different style of play with higher emphasis on research and military and less on land-grabbing. Old habits are difficult to abandon.

But your performance in COTM is very strong!

I have the same time problem, only I play the COTM instead of the GOTM. :)

How come you reached the end of the MA? It's a Vikings game and we're alone on an island so all you need are techs until navigation and invention (possibly MT, if you want cavalries). Or were you aming for a peaceful win? [crazyeye]

My performance in the COTM so far has been OK, thanks, but I've been mostly playing for score (with the exception of COTM2). I'm thinking about going for fastest finish awards now. Maybe culture in COTM10 (Mongols with a horrible first 21 tiles)... Should be fun. ;)

04-03-2005, 12:02
quote:Originally posted by Darkness
... Or were you aming for a peaceful win? [crazyeye]...

Indeed, I was going for space and built Libraries and Universities throughout the tiny chunk of land we got from Renata. Steam Power was OK in 4 turns but then starting from Electricity/Steel, it jumped up to 6 turns and there was no way to get anything faster no matter what I tried. Was looking forward to finish around 1600AD at most. I then read that other players going for space got lots of AI lands and cities and used scientists to speed the things up which I was not able to do building too few ships and units. Besides, it was too late. [sad]

04-03-2005, 12:19
KR writes
quote:lelijke Heks Founded somewhere unimportant.

lol, so your mother in law was visiting I see.

Lt. Killer M
04-03-2005, 12:46
quote:Originally posted by akots

@Killer: It might be you had problems because you played with a copy of C3C without downloading the SCOTM package. Please check this and then it is your turn.

that's not it - someone some DLLs are shot - must be from uninstalling and installing various work related programs. C3C doesn't do ANYTHING anymore.

04-03-2005, 14:54
akots, just as a general hint: nearly EVERY type of win is best done with a standard "take over the world" attitude. Space Race maybe you want to leave the big civs so they can research for you (or provide you with their GPT but that is often not as good), but still you must kill everythign near you so you can have a "maximised" area.

Any game you don't do this you can't expect to compete with those who do.

In relation to this game I am worried that we are not building markets in our core, since in the long run this would provide a significant boost to our economy. The game isn't ending soon so why stop building our empire?

04-03-2005, 15:17
@Anarres: OUR game is not ending soon... I'm not so sure about the other teams. :)

Specifics of this game demand little cash. We care neither for researching nor for paying upkeep and we have enough units to take over the world with what we have if we do it fast enough. What we do care is about food and land and happiness so that we can whip and enough workers so that we can irrigate all around. We would be better off with happiness if we have more luxuries. I just fail to see how markets can help with anything of this. What would we make is these big cities? Workers? OK, may be universities.

04-03-2005, 15:57
Cash can pay for upgrades (still not exactly cheap) and also for buying our way to education and beyond. Also in lux deals and MA's and other diplo stuff.

Cash can usually be used for something. My point is that 100 shields now may give us more in cash than 100 shields used on 2 GS's (although I hope we are not actually building any GS's directly!!!!!!!)

04-03-2005, 16:10
We were supposed to capture TGL from Japan to get the techs. We can capture it soon, surround with cities and gift to somebody else just before Education then capture it back when we need to climb the elevator. And I doubt we will be able to trade with anyone for the next 50 turns just because they don't have harbors yet and trading by land is risky because we are hammering on the neighbors. Besides, due to our size, prices for luxuries would be ridiculously high. Sure, markets are good though but only after Libraries imo unless we are broken which is not the case. And we need to keep at least 3 SFs up and running to cover the lands and make settlers whenever possible from other cities.

If Killer still cannot play, then Meli is up apparently. @Killer: Missing DLLs mean that might be you need to reinstall DirectX on that machine or use another one but hard to tell. [confused]

04-03-2005, 16:36
@Anar: I built Markets in most Corecities.

@Akots: Our income has risen to 200 gpt due to the markets and still we cannot upgrade all warriors we produce, imagine the heap of vet warriors we'd have without markets.

@all, I do not think we waited too long for the GA. The FP being finished realy helps a lot, and the fact that China was taken fast has everything to do with our planning. In fact, Shanghai was taken with exactly enough GS, so keeping the Momentum going was not that easy if we'd attacked 10 turns earlier.
For the next turns we should balance a bit, Markets in our core will do wonders for cash, while we should get libs in cities that produce 14+ shields (as building warriors would waste too much). The rest can and should build warriors, you will notice we can get 4-6 new warriors per turn, a vast ammount more then we can upgrade.

04-03-2005, 16:49
So we need more gold than we get to upgrade warriors? Sounds like we do need markets...

I am also pleased that somone here agreed with building the FP before the GA, I am sure it will pay off in the long run. :)

04-03-2005, 17:43
I have the save.

Will play on the way home and continue this evening.

Expect to post me stuff later tonight at earliest and tomorrow at latest.

Any more info before I play? Any hints/tips? Any more handbags? [groucho]


04-03-2005, 17:50
Yup - I'm not too worried at this stage about being behind some other teams in culture. Our tactic is to reach dom limit as fast as possible - settler flood and ICS in the burbs as fast as possible. THEN we rush temples and libraries etc everywhere. We will then have a very rapid increase in culture for a few turns rather than a gradual climb to 100k. Hopefully we will zoom past some other teams at that point.

Pyramids would be a key wonder when we start pop rushing everywhere though and it should be a priority to capture it.

Marketplaces in the core large cities are more for happiness than dosh arent they?

04-03-2005, 17:52
Ha, I nearly stabbed a co-worker today! I have recently been promoted and I asked somone to do a job and explain some of it to me, but he took it as an insult (how??) and decided to verbally rip me a new one.

Apparently some people just can't cope with authority - I've asked him to do jobs before I was promoted and I've never had issues. Today for the first time he argued with me and it was just after my promotion. Go figure.

BTW, only after did another boss say "welcome to the club, you will get this a lot from him".... [crazyeye]

Ting is, I hate authority in general, but why hate your friends at work who you happen to work for????? It's not as though I hate my bosses - one I get on very well with and another I have issues with but they are professional issues about how well they do their jobs. I certainly don't hate my bess because he is my boss...

Anyway, that explains my pre-disposition to handbags today. :D

04-03-2005, 17:59
Its tough and lonely at the top.

Maybe he feels he should have been the one to be promoted so fuck you. Youre getting paid for it - you do it now youve sold out to the capitalist conspiracy.

Oh - and congrats on the promotion.....

04-03-2005, 18:09
I think it is very much ok to get the world at war. We should keep investing money in MA's, they're not that expensive. Be careful with MA's for Luxes though, we do not want our rep spoiled because a traderoute broke up.

04-03-2005, 18:12
I guess you cant be a boss and a friend really.

You have to be seen as taking a fair line with all people under you.

Sack the useless piece of shit or give him a written warning.

Nothing like the prospect of a P45 to instill the proper conduct towards the boss.

But interesting as your work politics is.

How about some pointers for me game? [lol]


04-03-2005, 18:24
Dunno, can't load save at work, etc.

I want to see more war and land aquisition. I agree with akots we must irrigate our corrupt lands (but not at the expense of finishing development of our core).

New corrupt cities should be building workers or getting the 10 shields required to rush a temple (since the ToA is so far away atm).

We need to plan to take the ToA long-term and also the GL and the Pyramids. Some/all of these may be impossible, but we should certainly try to get them.

Now the FP is build we should see many more cities in the west that are usable. Hopefully there are no more tundra cities pushing their corruption up (in fact I was going to abandon one of Melis tundra cities in my turn to increase core production but I felt the team would not understand/criticise me so I left it). These usable cities (&lt; 80% corrupion) should prioritise couthouses - this is basic tactics for almost-corrupt cities. Exceptions are usualy when you are agri to build an aqueduct first but that isn't relevent in despotism.

That's about it on "general strategy" and I can't tell anything else without a save...

04-03-2005, 18:26
Oh, and the (hopefully) obvious: Don't build GS's directly EVER. That is what warriors and gold are for, and it will give us 5x the number of GS's for the same shields if we can find the gold...

04-03-2005, 23:14
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
... In fact, Shanghai was taken with exactly enough GS, so keeping the Momentum going was not that easy if we'd attacked 10 turns earlier. ...

They could have had less defenders there. And extra warriors would be good for MP purposes.

IIRC, declaring while having enemy units in our lands hurts our reputation. Not as much as with RoP but still.

Please, do not underestimate our opponents. We are not going to skyrocket with our culture over them and they are not going to slow down their expansion. And they will be surely using every trick allowed by GOTM rules to pull this off.

05-03-2005, 01:35
I dont think declaring while they have units on our lands hurts - only if we declare while we have units in their lands - but I could be wrong.

I'm not underestiamting our opponents - to be honest I'm ignoring them entirely and dont care what they do.

05-03-2005, 07:08
quote:Originally posted by col
...I'm not underestiamting our opponents - to be honest I'm ignoring them entirely and dont care what they do.

You speak of wisdom and calm whereas I speak of battle rage and racing spirit. I hope we can find compromise to suit both points of view. :)

05-03-2005, 12:16

07-03-2005, 14:18
Nearly done.

Couple more turns to play.

Kinda distracted at the weekend, mothers day on Sunday didnt help :D


07-03-2005, 15:33
OK Looking around. Little to be upset about, we have a lot of land now.

Accidentally hit right arrow and our Vet GS attacks a reg spear near Xinjian, we win, lose 1 hp and promote to Elite!

There is still much to do on the end of this turn! We have a stack of unmoved GS next to Xinjian (9 of them). Attack say I!
1st - Vet GS vs Reg Spear, we win, -1hp, promote to Elite.
2nd - Vet GS vs Reg Spear, we win, -1hp and take the city plus 2 workers.

Attack on Macao commences.
1st - Vet GS vs Reg Spear, 1 dead GS, didn't touch the spear, instead spear promotes. [hmm]
2nd - Vet GS vs Vet Spear, we win, -2hp.
3rd - Vet GS vs Reg Spear, we retreat, -1hp on spear.
4th - Vet GS vs 2hp Reg Spear. We win, take their current capital and remove at least 1 galley.

Down south I attack a reg spear with a vet GS. We win. -1hp.
Also notice warrior II is now an Elite GS, rename to GS II.

Spot 8 cities building GS! Ouch. Oh I get it, GS were set if KR couldnt decide what to do next [:p] No shields in any of them. 2 cities switched to Markets (other 8 cities

have markets)

Check out our warrior surplus, upgrade as many as possible. 10 I think it was and then pillage the iron. Well I would but no troops can get there with any movement left

[lol] Stupid mountains and rivers.

Anyways, will do next turn. WTF cant workers pillage anyways?

Check out the F8 screen we already have almost a quarter of the worlds population and just over a tenth of the world area. Nearest rival is France with 7% world area and

14% world population. France'll gets theres anyway, they have the Pyramids and maybe Sun Tzus soon.

Damn that took a long time. About 1.5 hours in all [lol]

Turn 01 - 70AD - Para Market -&gt; settler. Booze warrior - warrior. DBSoH warrior -&gt; warrior. Colmount worker -&gt; worker. Iron pillaged. All GS builds swapped to warriors.

Platos Republic founded in the far north of old Chinese lands. Starts temple. Whip a temple in shanghai for 2 pop and starve it some more.

IT - Watch the Mongols fighting the Iroquois in the west of Carthaginian lands. Also chinese wander a reasonable stack back outta Mongol lands. 7 reg archers and 2


Turn 02 - 90AD - Shanghai Temple -&gt; Settler. Eind warrior -&gt; warrior. Bastard warrior -&gt; warrior. Arse warrior -&gt; warrior. Klei warrior -&gt; warrior. Up Yours! Library -&gt;

Market. Feck warrior -&gt; warrior. Chinan temple -&gt; barracks. Colpool warrior -&gt; warrior. Schni worker -&gt; temple. All warriors head for DBSoH. Melibourne founded near

Shanghai. Starts Temple.

IT - Oh joy. Elite Jap Sword pops out da fog near Iroquois lands in the far west. Kills Iroquois archer and they get a MGL! It heads back off into the fog.

Turn 03 - 110AD - Spice Harbour -&gt; Warrior. Booze warrior -&gt; warrior. Banzai! Harbour -&gt; Temple.

IT - Iroquois MWs gallop into view in the far west. Dispatched by Jap swords. WLTKD in Para, Klei,

Turn 04 - 130AD - Chegdu temple -&gt; barracks. Giant Hooters market -&gt; temple. Broadmoor Galley -&gt; Galley. feck warrior -&gt; warrior. Kaifend worker -&gt; worker. Colpool warrior

-&gt; warrior. Colhill Spear -&gt; temple. Whip temple in Beijing and Xinjian.

IT - French offer straight peace. They have Feudalism already. No Way man, you seen the MAs we have? Cinese hoard dissapear into the fog. Damn their RoP with de Mongols.

Turn 05 - 150AD - Beijing temple -&gt; worker. Xinjian temple -&gt; worker. Spice warrior -&gt; warrior. Booze warrior -&gt; warrior. DBSoH warrior -&gt; warrior. Colford barracks -&gt;

warrior. Deva worker -&gt; worker.

IT - China and America sign MA vs France. India and Iroquois sign peace. Chinese want peace [lol]. Mongols want Alliance against Japs and RoP. Not now thanks.

Turn 06 - 170AD - Cameltopolis spear -&gt; barracks. feck warrior -&gt; warrior. Colpool warrior -&gt; warrior. Pink Surprise (sounds like gay porn to me) worker -&gt; temple. Whip

temple in Hangchow, Canton, Noviamagus, Nanking and Ningpo. Start reconnecting the iron.

Turn 07 - 190AD - Para Library -&gt; barracks. Various temples complete. All chinese cities that complete start workers. Colville market -&gt; temple. Spice warrior -&gt; warrior.

Giant Hooters temple -&gt; warrior. Broadmoor galley -&gt; galley. Booze warrior -&gt; warrior. Use some GS to wipe out some chinese units.

IT - Babylon and America sign MA against France. France really doesn't have any friends [lol] Iroquois and Japan sign peace, the buggers. China drops an archer next to


Turn 08 - 210AD - Eind Library -&gt; warrior. Orenburg market -&gt; warrior. Klei library -&gt; warrior. Giant Hooters warrior -&gt; warrior. Unix harbor -&gt; barracks. Clam barracks -&gt;

warrior. Feck warrior -&gt; warrior. Colpool warrior -&gt; warrior. Colford warrior -&gt; warrior. Kill archer next to Chengdu. Finally meet de Babylon. They are Feud, Engineering

and Republic up on us. Build an embassy for 103 gold. They are 26 turns off Sun Tzu and have 3 pikes defending. Whip temple in Banzai! and the Pink Surprise.

IT - Vikings and Babs gang up on the French!

Turn 09 - 230AD - Eind warrior -&gt; warrior. Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior. Colopolis Market -&gt; Temple. Bastard Library -&gt; warrior. Arse Library -&gt; warrior. Klei war -&gt; war.

Spice war -&gt; war. Giant Hooters War -&gt; war. Zmrde worker -&gt; worker. Booze war -&gt; war. DBSoH war -&gt; war. Colhill temple -&gt; warrior. Banzai! temple -&gt; Galley. Pink Surprise

temple -&gt; barracks. Tasmania war -&gt; harbour. Rush temple in Schni, Lezoux, SBNoH and Macao. Finish off final Chinese troops (had to wait for them to cross the mountains).

IT - Carthage are building Sun Tzu.

Turn 10 - 250AD - Para barracks -&gt; settler. Eind warrior -&gt; warrior. Orenburg warrior -&gt; warrior. Colville temple -&gt; warrior. Bastard warrior -&gt; warrior. Arse warrior -&gt;

warrior. Klei warrior -&gt; warrior. Up Yours Market -&gt; Harbour. giant hooters warrior -&gt; warrior. Broadmoor Galley -&gt; Galley. Macao temple -&gt; worker. feck warrior -&gt; warrior.

Colpool warrior -&gt; warrior. Colford warrior -&gt; warrior. Lezoux temple -&gt; barracks. Schni temple -&gt; worker. SBNoH temple -&gt; worker.

I'll leave it there. Some GS have movement left.

Most MAs run out next turn. Some troops stationed down south to take the Mongols out. Warriors in DontBuildSouthOfHere ready for upgrade. Silly me realised that I was

mining the iron and not roadaing it [:p] So Iron reconnect in about 2 turns. We have 186 out of an allowed 192 units :D.

This final turn of GA we do +220gpt and have 1822gold :D. Thats 30 warrior upgrades! [goodjob]


07-03-2005, 15:55
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Melibourne founded near

I thought I was the only egocentric namer....

Nice turns - sounds like you had fun.

07-03-2005, 16:06
quote:Originally posted by col

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Melibourne founded near

I thought I was the only egocentric namer....

Christ Almighty yes!!

Colville, Colpool, Colopolis, Colport, Colmount etc...

How many bloody cities did you found ffs.

Anyways. Had to finish this off at work, more builder turns really to make the most of our GA. MAs run out next turn and we have a nice chunk of troops to get Medievil on somebodies ass...



PS. Screenshots once the Partners our company have left [:p]

07-03-2005, 16:19
I find it a major pain that once you reach Feud you cant build GS anymore. I'd sooner have a GS than a MI any day of the week.

I always name cities that way in SGs - its kinda fun if everyone has a naming convention to see the empire later. Its gets trickier in solo games ...

07-03-2005, 16:37
Bit did you notice Broadmoor?

Not many people realise that Broad is my last name (well was before I got pretentious that is, and married)

When I said getting Medievil I meant just nasty, not Feud and MI's [lol]

I think we are going to have to upgrade past Feud though, GS aint gonna win this game.

I also suggest that we go for Mongols next and maybe (I said maybe) Carthage after? Only problem with Carthage is those damned Numidian Mercs and they have the Great Wall [rolleyes]

Can send 40+ GS that way and see how we go, then build up Troops in the east and ferry across to Japan.

Already have 4-5 galleys ready to Ferry.

Nice to see the AI trying to Dogpile the French, should keep the northern hemisphere of the map busy for a while :D


07-03-2005, 17:11
Anarres is due next. IMO, we should hammer on Mongols and Japan then try to capture the Pyramids from France once she is weakened.

07-03-2005, 18:22
Japan has which wonder in the capital? Is it the GL?

Turns look good as far as I can tell. :)

My personal preference is always going to be to go kick ass until we get 40%+ of the land. All new land aquisition can be quickly put to use boosting our empire and worker stocks. The only real question is who is nearest or has the biggest prize?

07-03-2005, 18:30
We are currently on about 12% land (and 21-22% pop). More Asskicking needed.

But with the 'interesting' shape of the land (looks more like an apple peeling wrapped around the map). See diagram.

\\ \\
\\ \
\ \\ \
\===\\ ===\

Kinda thingy, its gonna be a bugger to get around easily. I think we HAVE to take Mongols and Carthage as it will be too much effort to move troops in any other ways.

Unless we wanna ferry a lot of troops north directly to America/France/Babylon.

I dunno.

Gotta kill some.


07-03-2005, 18:37
Ferrying to Japan would be easy since it takes 1 turn for a galley to transport 2 GS and return back iirc. Carthage we can leave be imho for later or take out as well but there are also Iros and we need the Pyramids. We can take all Jap cities but Kyoto which has TGL. They are very unlikely to flip. Actually, nothing should flip from us since we are supposed to be the culutral monsters.

If we decide to go after Hannibal, it would have been through alliance with some of his neighbors but still we will be facing def 3 units already which is not very nice.

08-03-2005, 02:59
I made a start:

preturn (250AD): After a survey I realise our long term goals all suck, they are literally ALL on the other side of the world. The only exception is the GL in Kyoto, but that is the least needed wonder.

I rush a temple somewhere and galley somewhere else and switch several 40 - 50% corrupt cities to courthouses. A couple of non-corrupt coastal cities get switched to galleys. We will need quite a few and all our coastal cities should focus on galleys until we have enough (especially since we have so many land units).

We seem to have enough units to sustain 2 wars so I will get going on the Japanese in a few turns (when I can get units there), and against the Mongols next turn when our deal runs out. Lux gets set down from 10% to 0.

There are many units in the center of our empire doing nothing. I set them all off to "do stuff". Lets face it - a unit with no purpose is a total waste of resources.

All quiet on the diplo front...

AI: India and France sign peace treaty.

08-03-2005, 03:22
quote:Originally posted by anarres
We seem to have enough units to sustain 2 wars so I will get going on the Japanese in a few turns (when I can get units there), and against the Mongols next turn when our deal runs out. ...

Surely, we don't want GS to serve the MP duty and leave this to warriors. Their swords are too sharp and the guys are too fast to waste them this way.

08-03-2005, 04:12
@Anarres: If you feel like too much strain, we can start taking 5 turns per player. There are many cities to manage and units to move indeed. These 100K games made me sick before MapStat era came hence I played only one game in PTW. And after MapStat, never had a chance. For me, it is a nightmare to manage that many cities, I just tend to leave them on governor in single-player. We can maximize for food in the case they are corrupt completely.

Also, you'd better start working on culture since all that has been built before 400-500AD will be eventually doubled be it only close to the end but still contributing a lot imho.

08-03-2005, 04:21
Talking of culture, you'll be hard pressed to find cities without temples.

Decent cities built one, chinese cities were all whipped.


What next? Libraries?


08-03-2005, 12:54
Next is how we get to America and the ToA! My vote is over water...

Note I don't mean now - it will take 20 turns at least to build up enough of a fleet, but that is still much quicker than our land armies will take. ATM our units are heading SE and SW, but in 20 turns or so we can run them back to the north chinese coast for ferrying.

08-03-2005, 16:40
Now is a good time to discuss what we want to do, since I will be playing the turns in about 4 to 5 hours...

08-03-2005, 17:57
IMHO, our military is essentially enough to take over most the AIs for enough land and it is time to go for Pyramids and start building some culture long overdue. ToA can wait and indefinitely indeed, I'm not sure we really need ToA.

08-03-2005, 18:13
Don't you think 200 cities x free temples is worth it akots? [???] I know it's a long way but surely it's worth it?

ATM we have NOWHERE near enough land. Until we hold 50% at least we can't start thinking that we do Edit: akots, I know this isn't what you said, but wanting to stop building military is what I am getting at I think). I know we have a decent(ish) army, but it's not that big yet...

08-03-2005, 18:27
Yes, build some reinforcements by all means and upgrade them to GS. But all other cities while they can should build culture especially those which go above 10 spt. And we want cathedrals as well as libraries.

I just don't see how we can produce 200 cities without cash-rushing settlers. We need a rough estimate on how many cities we would have and how many temples will have their culture doubled and would we need Education. Let's just calculate everything

08-03-2005, 18:47
I am already using 10 shields-then rush in corrupt cities we capture. I was shocked to find our core settler pumps empty or above size 7 - I am pretty sure we screwed ourselves there. :(

08-03-2005, 19:07
My fault on the settler pumps.

Ran out of room to settle, and concentrated on Temples/Markets on those cities whilst GA was on.

Also GA kinda confuses most builds. 4 turn settlers should have been easy, but....

I'm only human not anarres ;)


08-03-2005, 19:11
Just keep in mind that 100K is a lot of culture. Even 400 cities with temples will not help a lot there unless we have many libraries and cathedrals and may be even universities. In many games people build Colloseums as well especially when going to GOTM awards. Land by itself is important while going for rapid win but efficient use of this land is even more important. We get only a handful of AI cities with huge gaps between them. These gaps have to be filled and as soon as possible but the surrounding cities would be corrupt and unable to make a 30-shield settler while simply whipping it needs the city at 5 pop which is not that easy to obtain from the AI. Lack of workers and rough terrain does not help as well.

It is a pity that SFs are not functioning, they make at least some contribution even though it takes some time for these settlers to walk to their destination. If it might be possible to restore them at least to fill in the Japanese lands. I doubt we will need go full ICS there (may be east of Kyoto) since cities will be at least somewhat productive.

IMvHO, the team which is researching in this game might have a good chance since the ultimate goal for such a game is communism and replaceable parts and civil engineers considering the difficulty level. First, I thought it will go smoothly up to Education and then just stopped but as it evolves, it might be worth considering turning on the research and the sooner the better, right after the conquest phase is finished leaving the most productive AIs untouched for assistance. But it might be this is wrong, I'm not sure. It can be done both ways probably.

08-03-2005, 19:15
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

... Ran out of room to settle ...

You can't be arsed either...

With ICS we cannot run out of room to settle, there always is some room. Even tiny chunk of useless tundra or hopeless hillcountry can make a temple and then may be a worker if not a library eventually. Especially on the river and with some terrain which can be irrigated.

08-03-2005, 19:49
quote:Originally posted by akots

You can't be arsed either...

Yes sorry only took 5 hours to play my 10 turns. Obvious lack of commitment there, sorry.

anarres said not to build on the tundra close to home.

C3C wont let you settle right next to another city.

Thats what I meant be nothing to settle.

Take a look at the save before making sweeping generalisations please.


PS. In fact akots? Why dont you play all the turns, why have any other members on your team, when we obviously cant be bothered and dont do exactly as you want? If you MUST win this competition then may I suggest to find another way to grind your axe with Mad-Bax.

PPS. If you didnt mean to be offensive, please ignore the above rant [blush]

08-03-2005, 20:24
Guys...let's not knife eachother over things we'd done differently ourselves. We can give tips but basicly a SG is about having to deal with other playstiles, preferences, workeractions, diplomacy and even city names[crazyeye]. I can rather clearly see some sort of division in our team that (at least to me) was pretty clear from the start. I by no means say anyone is wrong in any way but putting a player like col and a player like anarres in one team will simply lead to different individual goals. Again, neither is worng here, I think the entire team is very very nice. So, we can either just have great fun from now on and don't emphasize on would-be-errors, or just call it a day. For me, the citynames alone are a reason to get on with it.[:o]