View Full Version : SGOTM6 - Screenshots and Turnlogs
A new oxymoron - a CDZ anarchic SG team ....
seriously - everyone brings a different approach to this kind of SG. Everyone has something to learn too by seeing different attitudes and approaches. Everyone knows Meli's fuse is shorter than his prick.
Ranting on each other and assaulting with broadswords is a great part of SG. I like it this way. Let's arse each other and let's hope all stay alive in the end!
For a game that I play like I want, I play GOTM. SG is different. But this does not mean we must screw it. I'm still having some hope of winning. Not that it matters, it just makes it more interesting.
But I'm known all over CFC for insulting behavior and bizzare harrassement of fellow teammates in SGs and throughout the forum. You can ask DocT, and LK, and infamous Ted Jackson, and mad-bax, and Bugsy and a dozen others. Though CDZ is different, you think it is easy for me to change and adapt? It is in my second (or first) nature and has to be released. [lol]
Please feel free to hammer on me with the broadswords. [evil]
I guess after the first 2 days I came to the same realisation as KR and I am happy with it (apart from city names, I can't understand any issue there ;)).
I have held back on many issues, and in the cases where I point out sub-optimal play it is not intended as a slight on the player who "did" it, but rather as I feel it is important to at least recognise these things. Note that it may just be for my ego that I do it, but if just 1 person discovers something new to them then it is a good thing (and not just the player being commented on - lots of my learning came from reading what people wrote about others in SG's). For this reason also I like to read other comments, especially when people comment on my play. :)
quote:Originally posted by col
A new oxymoron - a CDZ anarchic SG team ....
seriously - everyone brings a different approach to this kind of SG. Everyone has something to learn too by seeing different attitudes and approaches. Everyone knows Meli's fuse is shorter than his prick.
It's not often I actually LOL when reading the internet. [lol]
I have no problem at all with anyone pointing out my sub-optimal play. Form an orderly queue. I'm still 0-3 in pbems....I'm lazy and know it - but the mechanics of MM are still of interest.
I agreed to play this game because it sounded different and might need a different approach. I agreed too because pbems just arent my thing - I cant get into playing one turn at a time and lose interest but I still want to be involved in the er community that is CDZ.
Kingreno
08-03-2005, 20:08
quote:(apart from city names, I can't understand any issue there ).
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2005382083_citylist.jpg
50.66KB
You can't?
Pastorius
08-03-2005, 20:28
[whatsthis
What a nice city list. [groucho]
Some observations:
Cameltopolis - probably founded by a milf lover :D
All in all, those names are consistent with people's values here - at least the mainstream CDZ love of booze, hooters and the pink surprise [:o] :D
And I guess anarres isnt the only one who needs to satisfy his ego - Colford, Colpolis, Colhill...need I say more :D
KR: No. [crazyeye]
Do you mean it is "unpleasant" to look at in some way, or that some names are similar?
Kingreno
08-03-2005, 21:38
As the founder of Cameltopolis I don't think "unpleasant" is my PoV! I am just very amused by the names people come up with. Just a silly feature I like of the SG!
Melifluous
08-03-2005, 23:20
47 cities! [coool]
We pwn.
Also I am willing to concede that maybe Akots didn't realise the regional implications of that statement.
"I can't be arsed" implies that the person saying it doesn't care about the person they are talking to.
It's a I dont care and I dont care what you think of that.
I took offence, but then again I just spent the most hectic day of my working day.
I'm almost certain I had like 30 new things thrown at me today and sorted all but 2 of them [crazyeye]
But fuck it.
This is how we do it.
Vive le difference!
Now I'm off to bother somebody else.
Melifluous
My English might be not perfect but I perfectly understand the col's sig. ;)
Turn 1 (260AD): Cancel our MA against the Iros with the Mongols then declare war on them.
Kazan is taken for no loss, we lose 1 GS taking Ulaanbaatar.
Some more temples rushed in corrupt cities.
Turn 2 (270AD): Iron is reconnected, I upgrade some crazy number of warriors. Not sure quite how many but I spent several thousand and we have 103 GS's now. :D
Back to the Mongols: We autoraze Hovd and capture Darhan for no loss. 2 spears and an archer seem standard fare in all the mongol cities. Unfortunatly this well be slow at first, but soon we will be through them and on to Carthage.
AI: The mongols attack some exposed units (heading for the mongol capital) but fail to kill any.
Turn 3 (280AD): 2 settler pumps are back in action...
Take the mongol capital for no loss.
AI: France and England sign peace treaty. The mongols kill a couple of GS's on mountians...
Turn 4 (290AD): Cool, I get a leader taking out the mongol units that attacked us in the interturn. :D
There are 3 mongol ciites left I can see and they will fall in the next 2 turns. We have about 30 GS's on the Japanese side of the channel, next turn I will attack.
I will play and post what I can tomorrow, even if I can't finish the turns.
btw, I assume leader -> army is a given?
Well, it will not hurt us to have a 3 mp GS army... [charge]
Kingreno
09-03-2005, 17:32
quote:Originally posted by anarres
btw, I assume leader -> army is a given?
Uh yes.
Turn 4 (290AD): (cont...)
Our GA has ended, but we are still 1st in everything important.
Turn 5 (300AD): The Mongol assault continues:
Almarikh and Ta-Tu are taken at the cost of 1 GS each. Dalandzadgad is auto-raised for no loss. I think that's all the Mongol cities - I can see 2 settlers so I guess there could be several more.
Found ICS 1 :D
I declare war on Japan and start our attack:
Kagoshima and Nagasaki fall for 1 GS, Tokyo at no cost.
AI: Mongols declare war on Carthage.
Turn 5 (300AD): ...
Whoops, but I was really tired and fell asleep before finishing.
[b]I have uploaded the save so somone else can continue. I will post some more tomorrow
It might be certainly a good idea to make it in 5-turn increments during the weekdays. We are large and have many units to hammer around and three important settler factories to run. If desired, people can take 10 turns over the weekends. If so, then col is UP to hammer on remanings of Mongols and possibly Carthage and on Japanese. However, we better try to avoid capturing Kyoto since it harbors Great Library. Or if we capture it, better gift to some culturally weak civ before the turn ends imho. May be also prepare a fleet to get to Pyramids?
Both our cultural graphs and score looks grave.
There are about 50 GS's in teh west - the Mongols are essentially dead and we can (must) now move on to Carthage.
There are about 30 GS's in the east (Japan) - they can sweep through ignoring Kyoto and head N.
Please do not settle cities close together in Japanese lands!! This will damage our empire strength MASSIVELY as the corruption increases in all our core cities.
Instead, start settling when you are waaaay past Japan and then do ICS (please note how many tiles this is from the capital - for a rule of thumb I would not settle more than 1 or 2 cities closer to the capital than Don'tBuildSouthOfHere.
Please also look at the 2 operational settler factories and make sure they are getting 5 food every turn. This is the most important thing to check if you don't check anything else....
Next important is to scan your eyes over the corrupt cities every turn and when they get to 10 shields rush a temple if it doesn't have one, or a settler if the city size is 4 (or 3 and will be 4 in the next few turns). Corrupt cities with only 2 food growth can be left on workers once they have a temple.
Col - USE MAPSTAT. If you want to chill and not check everything each turn this is a total lifesaver - for both cities and trade. :)
quote:Originally posted by akots
But I'm known all over CFC for insulting behavior and bizzare harrassement of fellow teammates in SGs and throughout the forum. You can ask DocT, and LK, and infamous Ted Jackson, and mad-bax, and Bugsy and a dozen others. Though CDZ is different, you think it is easy for me to change and adapt? It is in my second (or first) nature and has to be released. [lol]
Hey, even me! But I liked every SG I played with you, because you aren't afariad to speak up. In our Sid defiant game we had great intense discussions. But what would you expect with akots, anarres and Aggie. One thing I learned: Mark1031 is absurdly calm. There must be something wrong with him :)
PS. I also liked the SG's with Meli very much :)
Melifluous
10-03-2005, 14:08
quote:Originally posted by Aggie
PS. I also liked the SG's with Meli very much :)
Aw shucks.
[blush]
Melifluous
Pastorius
10-03-2005, 14:43
[love] is in the air. Or rather, in this thread
You make me sick
[:p]
quote:Originally posted by col
I can play this evening.
I was wrong. Wife arrived home at 6pm instead of 9pm.
I'll play this weekend when she's out at work ....[blush]
Melifluous
14-03-2005, 13:04
So anymore news here Col?
I am eagerly waiting for your impressive set of turns.
Not chasing you man, just curious :D
Melifluous
Melifluous
14-03-2005, 13:06
quote:Originally posted by col
Everyone knows Meli's fuse is shorter than his prick.
And I just noticed this! You bastard! [:P]
Melifluous
Pastorius
14-03-2005, 13:32
[lol]
Kind of stalled at present - family stuff. Trying to play it this evening if I dint get landed with something else.
Melifluous
14-03-2005, 15:11
Was just wondering dood.
Hope your family is all well.
Melifluous
Yeah - everything is fine - just busy. Wife has exams in a weeks time. Mum is recovering well from operation. Stepson doing fine.
Can you play today or need a skip? Just tell straight because we cannot hold the game any longer.
If someone else is ready to play, skip me and I'll come back in later.
Me is up then. I'll try to play today or tomorrow. Kingreno is preparing.
My term ends on Friday and I'm on holiday on my own for a week then so I can play lots of Civ ...
Started, will try to finish and post tomorrow.
Kingreno
17-03-2005, 09:09
quote:Originally posted by akots
Me is up then. I'll try to play today or tomorrow. Kingreno is preparing.
[mischief] I am. realy.
That was a very long set of turns, played total of 7 hours for 2 days in a row. It is a lot for 9.5 turns for me. The map is cruel and AI has been certainly heavily modded. The game is not played like a standard Civ3 epic and not like GOTM certainly. The variant is brutal and we are dead behind team Offa. Otherwise, we will win, sooner or later. ;)
Preturn check. Actually not preturn since the game was inherited after 5 turns played by Anarres in the beginning of turn 6. We need Monotheism for Cathedrals and are building courthouses. This improvement useful it might be, brings us no culture and extra population growth. Alas, nobody has Monotheism. Flipping chances of Japanese cities are virtually zero but they were set to starve, so maxed on food for growth and subsequent whipping and set on governor to prevent riot. Capture Yangchow from Mao. Disbanded all assorted cats to help with building settlers. Army loaded, waiting for the signal to attack Carthage. Some warriors upgraded to GS. Iron left connected since we are not building units. That took over an hour.
[2] Nagoya and Satsuma captured. Mongols eliminated. Made peace with China in exchange for 2 remote cities. Still many veteran warriors to be upgraded and plenty of other things to build. Mostly great shortage of settlers since there is not enough of them even for a small resemblance to the ICS. Also, it is impossible to micromanage all cities even those which have grown according to MapStat, so I only observe general order around. Turn took 30 minutes. That is much better.
[3] A bunch of Mounties appeared coming from Iro lands towards Satsuma. Matsuyama captured. Japanese iron pillaged. Declare was to Hannibal, move in for a kill with many GS. Army wins, Orenburg set to build Heroic Epic. We lose a bunch of units IBT mostly to Mounties. This game sure plays more difficult than Emperor. More like Demi-God but close to Deity considering AI had starting advantage.
[4] Leptis Magna captured. Edo falls with all its ivory but the city is completely surrounded with Mounties and Japanese swords. Last iron pillaged and a few cities set to build warriors. These courthouses builds are messing a lot with everything but fortunately a few will be finished rather soon. I make alliance with Gandhi against Iro. Otherwise it might be a bit too tough against all these MWs. This was a long turn.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200531810613_SGOTM6-340AD.JPG
102.56KB
[5] Three more Carthaginian cities captured. America has Monotheism. Many units moving around.
[6] We captured another Carthaginian city and got the second leader. Due to the desperate military situation, he runs and forms the second army. Our position is not so bad, it is just that the advance is not going as fast as it could have been. The only cities I micromanage closely are settler factories. In the interturn lose 7 (!!!) GS to counterattacks from Japanese swords and 2 to MWs and also another two to Hannibal’s archers.
[7] Leptis Minor finally falls to our heroic army. Now all effort is concentrated on Carthage which has Great Wall. Some GOTM games are just a nightmare race. This is surely one of them but the feeling is fascinating indeed. What is most frustrating in this game is actually the lack of settlers and inability to rush them efficiently. I don’t think it can be finished very early, apparently we would have to go almost all the way to Communism. We are facing lots of defense 3 units and losses are pretty high. We are down to 84 GS now and advance against Japan is basically stalled. In the interturn we lose two last actively threatening GS in Japanese lands and Vikings complete STAW. There is a bunch of longbowmen running around as well. Now America and Vikings both have Monotheism but price is still very steep to buy. Well, having Engineering will not hurt as well.
[8] Due to capture of a few Japanese cities, Don’t becomes utterly corrupt and there is no sense of building a courthouse there. I switch to library and whip it. Booze is still doing OK though. Don’t renamed to Youcanbuildsouthofhere. 16 GS are ready to storm Carthage next turn. Babylon completes Leo’s.
[9] Miraculously we capture Nara. After three GS retreat from a pike not taking a single hp, the pike is killed revealing spear. Spear then redlines another GS and is finally killed by a desperate attack of a redlined GS. Carthage finally captured. It was defended by 4 regular NMs but we lost 6 GS in the process. It was a very close call with 16 attacking units. Number of GS brought back to acceptable level of 95 by spending 1300 g for upgrades.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20053181074_SGOTM6-390AD.JPG
121.83KB
[10] It has been a long set of turns. Did not check if a deal with Mono is possible. We would also be able to get Engineering which is indeed a good tech because of many rivers and possibilities of forestry operations. Also, did not check if we can whip more temples this turn. There are 4 GS in ICS1 because Iro liked the name and landed 4 units there a couple of times, MWs and archers. But they already have MDI and longbowmen. If we go for Kyoto, we may roughly need about 25 GS to take it in a single turn or 15 plus an army. Japan does not have iron though, so it might be OK. Once we get Feudalism and will have only MDI, the only way to go is RoP rape, otherwise we are stuck. If might be worth to capture Kyoto and may be gift it to some civ with weak culture the very same turn just to cripple Japan. They are still strong and have many units. I have dearly underestimated their numbers and lost at least 2 dozen GS on the counterattacks. Guess Mad-bax have modded them to build more offensive units and less culture. Overall, this game plays completely differently compared to normal civ and it would have been nice to know the changes because standard Emperor-level tactics do not work very well with these modded AIs. Forestry may be a way to go with accelerating settler builds but it is extremely tedious even using E-man’s city naming. Otherwise, it is just a slow struggle.
Some screenies:
Carthage Northern Front:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200531810754_SGOTM6-400ADa.JPG
141.35KB
Carthage South-Central Front:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200531810835_SGOTM6-400ADb.JPG
139.57KB
The city of Edo Army Group:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200531810927_SGOTM6-400ADc.JPG
126.46KB
Southern Japanese Front:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2005318101026_SGOTM6-400ADd.JPG
116.13KB
The Kyoto Front:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2005318101058_SGOTM6-400ADe.JPG
143.88KB
And finally the cruel minimap. There is no way we can reach France for now. It is too far away:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2005318101157_SGOTM6-400ADf.JPG
12.48KB
Kingreno is up. All Celtic population looks with hope as the new rules ascends to the throne. I've been really negligient to micromanagement and only browsed all cities twice, on turn 1 and on turn 4 or 5. We have very little resistance, almost none and flip chances are close to zero as well. Indeed seems that Carthage has been also modded to build less culture and more military.
Kingreno
18-03-2005, 10:44
5 or 10 turns?
Well, as many as you can afford. :)
Kingreno
18-03-2005, 10:53
Ok! playing now.
Hmm, some good turns, but why did you ignore my advice not to build lots of cities in Japan?
Apart from that we're looking good, I guess the agression may be turned up in this game?
Melifluous
18-03-2005, 11:50
Also akots?
Could you post/copy and paste your log to CFC?
Our thread is looking a little neglected there Captain ;)
Melifluous
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Hmm, some good turns, but why did you ignore my advice not to build lots of cities in Japan?
...
Have not built many, one or two at distance not less than Don't. But captured a few. Well, I've inherited Don't with 2 shields, I guess it was a close rounding.
IMHO, we need to use every tile possible, grassland does not need to be improved, just road is enough. Plains irrigated, forest chopped trying to keep track of it, settlers whiped if possible. Need size 4 and 10 shields in the bin for that. The settlers from factories have to travel a lot just to get somewhere. Especially without Engineering it has been a major pain.
@Meli: I'll copy a turnlog, posting the same pics twice just for the pleasure of mad-bax is too much for me now.
The map is actually built for RoP rape, just need some more units. Both fronts will soon converge though. Just need to clean northern Carthage up, and finish Japan and then the only way is up north the Iro land. I'm not calling for use of RoP abuse, but if it were a GOTM, I'd be very tempted to go for it. I'm sure other teams have done it at least a few times. The age of GS is coming to a swift end. Gunpowder is knocking in and AIs are really powerful. They'll roll over to Industrial Age in less than 50 turns IMHO unless we manage to stir some more wars. Alas, we have nothing to offer for the alliances except cash which we dearly need ourselves.
Melifluous
18-03-2005, 12:29
quote:Originally posted by akots
Alas, we have nothing to offer for the alliances except cash which we dearly need ourselves.
Good job we wasted our time with Marketplaces then huh? [mischief]
Melifluous
Not sure about how useful the markets are indeed. It could have been libraries and we could have been researching then while trading techs with AI and speeding up all the way to Communism. We would have been probably there already albeit may be slightly smaller in size. GS are good but cavalry rules. Besides, making/breaking peace can do the trick earlier in the game but not later on and we are not using it. Reputation is a good thing to have but in most cases it is possible to finish earlier with broken rep. There are a number of tricks and it is allowed per GOTM rules though often frowned upon. However, most GOTMs are won with these tricks.
And I was never against markets, my point was that libraries should have priority. If we have built them, their culture would have already doubled by now mostly. We have pathetic 3K something or may be 4K. The game is only starting.
Same thing is like waiting for FP build to finish for 15 turns. The timing is critical and if we started 15 turns earlier, the GA benefit will be smaller but we will be rolling over Japan and Carthage since they would not have MDI and LBs and there will be mostly spearmen for defense instead of pikemen. Our losses could have been substantially less and we would not have needed that many GS.
Another bad point is that Pyramids are too far away. IMHO, the team which was able to manipulate the AI to build Pyramids closer to start will win this game.
Melifluous
18-03-2005, 13:22
OK in answer to a few of your points.
The Pyramids IMHO are not too far away. Nothing is too far away. From the north of Old China we could ferry an obscene number of troops over there with the sole aim of taking the Pyramids. It can be done.
Also I'm not too worried about the culture either. Look at the graphs at gotm.civfanatics.net and you'll see that the team currently leading on Culture were behind us in culture at the same point in the game. We just gotta kill and kill again.
I would also suggest that we all switch to 5 turn turns [crazyeye] as soon as possible. The turns are long now and we dont want mistakes due to boredom creeping in.
Melifluous
Melifluous
18-03-2005, 13:39
KR
Melifluous
Melifluous
18-03-2005, 13:40
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
Ok! playing now.
In fact [coool]
Melifluous
Team Offa is ahead both in score and culture. They are evil RoP rapers bunch. Just very strong players and very motivated.
Kingreno
18-03-2005, 15:28
played.[:o]
preturn check.
Setler facs not opperating as they should...but I am a forgiving person (don't tell anarres though)
whipp temples in Leptis Minor, Carthage.
Change a dozen builds (minor ones)
check trades.
Vikings and America have Mono, eng, feud and rep. (and inv)
babs lack mono, as does england.
I can buy mono for 80 gpt and 200 cash, but decide to wait as many civs will get mono soon. we need the cash for upgrades, we have no time to sneak in cathedrals now.
I press end turn
we lose an archer to a LB near Kyoto. one GS retreats near Kyoto. We have too many small groups. we need SoD's!
410 AD:
I sink a jap galley and kill a jap LB.
we capture Theveste with 7 workers in it!
whipp a temple in nara, a lib in feck, a CH in colford, a lib in colhill.
IT: Iro's land near ICS1
Japs move 14 units towards Goiguen. I anticipated that last turn and they will be annihilated by GS. I hope.
we lose no units.
420AD, massive global whipping.
we lose 3 GS killing 11 Japanese units near Kyoto, the RNG was not kind as I had far better odds.
We kill 3 MW and a MI of the Iro's near Edo.
WE destroy 2 Numercs.
We capture hippo, for one lost GS./
IT: a load of Iro units are spotted...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2005318151724_400edosiege.jpg
67.84KB
they seem to prefer attacking Ucking though, for some reason...
430AD
Capture Saporro, and 3 other cities
IT: Iro's mass near Edo...damn, many units... 10 MW, 20 archers, some spears/LB's
440AD
nothing special, some whipping and founding of cities.
attack 2 Carthaginian cities and succeed.
IT Iro's move towards Ucking!
450 AD
get 23 GS ready for Kyoto
take out more of carthage, they are almost gone now.
Whipping in 2 cities.
460 AD
bye bye last chance. we fail to take Kyoto......[sad][sad]
it is defended by 6 pikes and a longbow and we LOSE 12 GS leaving 3 ELITE redlined piks in the city. RNG major fuckup, shown primarily by the fact we had 3 full health vics against 4hp pikemen, where 5 full health GS failed to scratch 1 hp of the elite pikes. we had extremely high chances of getting this city.[aargh]
IT: Iro's move towards Ucking! 20+ units[medic]
470 AD: I regroup and prepare to destroy Carthage. Destroy a lot of Japs again, where do these clowns come from??? I founded Ucking behind a river and with walls in it I fortify 8 GS in it! that should tempt Hiawatha to strike, but should get him many casualties.[fdevil]
IT: The Masacre of Ucking, we lose zero units while 5 MW's 5 archers and 2 Longbows bite the dust. regular archers and a spear pass Ucking and will die this turn. Ooops Hiawatha.[mischief]
480 AD: Take the Carth cap with the loss of 2 GS. it was size 10...
annihilate 6 Iro units and again some Japs....
IT: Iro's retreat. Carthaginian last Counterattacks sees an archer kill itself.
490 AD Not much move to attack Carthaginian cap next turn. reposition so Kyoto is in 2 turns, hopefully...
WE took the cultural lead![cool]
IT: nothing
500AD: bleh, carthage has a setler on aboat somewhere...[rant]
I align 35 (THIRTY-FIVE) GS for Kyoto. we dare not fail...
gift the city to India once we take it.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2005318152140_500adkyoto.jpg
64.64KB
Tha pics of our empire. big.
east:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200531815222_500adeastlands.jpg
135.06KB
the western cities are quite productive! make sure they have Courthouses! they can start building units here soon. for the rest, temple-setler-setler-lib. completely ICS it. I started already. follow the lead...
The core!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200531815244_500adcore.jpg
162.19KB
we are making far more vet warriors then we can upgrade. perhaps we need to considder building some horses now?
North, former China. Corruptistan, all the way. don't botter CH. build libs, whippm them as soon as you can. remember that at size 3, you can whipp the last 20 shields of a rax, the switch to lib, and whipp again at size 4.
Iro's love landing here, I have made several elites here, so get a leader. I didn't in 50+ elite vics.:(
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2005318152456_500adnorth.jpg
98.93KB
west, least develpoed, least workers, least food for setlers. get setlers over here!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2005318152732_500adwest.jpg
133.76KB
The save is at cfc.
have fun.
Melifluous
18-03-2005, 15:54
Christ Almighty that was quick!
When you said you were playing I didnt realise you were playing [:P]
Great Set of Turnz.
I got it!
Melifluous
PS. You did post at CFC as well didnt you?
Pastorius
18-03-2005, 22:42
quote:Booze is still doing OK though
Always make sure the booze is ok!
[drunk]
That was a great set of turns! As fast as it could have been! [goodjob]
We can stockpile on warriors, 50 or 70 and just ugrade them gradually over time.
Melifluous
19-03-2005, 01:11
Just for fun I'll post a first turn report just to annoy KingReno [mischief]
quote:
IT - France and America sign peace :( Not one of our units gets attacked. But I do see Indian and Carthage [:o] attacking Iro troops, carthage sink 2 Iro galleys!
Turn 01 - 510AD - Christ! Lots o'stuff completes, thanks KR ;) Start scrapping near Allegheny. First Elite Win gives me a leader Caractacus, rename unit to FirstEliteWinEqualsLeaderHa. Will get more armies going. Lets see with 107 cities we can have nearly 27 armies [:P] Assault on Kyoto deserves proper coverage.
Lets go!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 5hp = 2hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 5hp = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 5hp = 4hp pike and retreat.
haha, now we get to continue on the injured [fdevil]
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 4hp = 2hp pike and retreat.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 4hp = 2hp spear and retreat.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 4hp = 2hp spear and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 4hp = Dead Spear for no loss and promoted GS. First Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs vet Spear 4hp = 3hp spear and retreat.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 3hp [groucho] = Dead spear and 1hp GS! Second Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 2hp = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 2hp = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 2hp = Dead spear and 2hp GS. Third Kill!
Elite GS 5hp vs Vet Spear 2hp = Dead spear and 3hp GS. Fourth Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 1hp = Dead pike, no loss. Fifth Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 1hp = Dead pike and 2hp GS. Sixth Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 1hp = Dead pike, no loss. Seventh Kill!
WE TAKE KYOTO, WE LOST 5 GS! THEY WILL PAY! WE WILL SLAUGHTER THEIR KITTENS AND SEW SALT INTO THEIR PILLOWS!!!11!! STUPID KING HILLS!!!!11!"2"!!
Sell the barracks in Kyoto (sheesh its all money right?) and gift to our Iro Killing friend Gandhi! "Please convey my thanks to the generous Celtic people!". Dont worry mate, we'll be back for it [fdevil]
Now there's a couple of galleys south of Mongol Lands that I have no <insert expletive here> idea what they're up to. So I send them randomly .... East towards the "GAP". Oooo mystery!
Strewth! Create ICSnext near USInvasionStartsHere and realise that we can now build the Pentagon in 510AD! Take 4 units into the army? Yes please! Now where to build it... Colville, Tennasee. Yee Haw! 29 turns :(
Whip up some temples!
Gosh first turn over and only an hour later! [:P]
IT - Japs retreat one of our GS. That was about it. India vs Iroquois was inspired KR as Monty seems to be recalling most of his troops to deal with India :D And With Kyoto in the hand of India we can make sure they aren't wiped out until we want them to be :D Joy! Vikings building Knight Templar. Chivalry is on the table.
Melifluous
We do have Heroic Epic, don't we? The leaders should fall then in our hands for the following turns.
Kingreno
19-03-2005, 13:22
I had 20+ elite vics WITH the epic...[aargh]
well done Mel!
Melifluous
19-03-2005, 14:05
http://www.mattyorke.com/images/misc/snigger.gif
Melifluous
Melifluous
19-03-2005, 17:58
IT - France and America sign peace :( Not one of our units gets attacked. But I do see Indian and Carthage [:o] attacking Iro troops, carthage sink 2 Iro galleys!
Turn 01 - 510AD - Christ! Lots o'stuff completes, thanks KR ;) Start scrapping near Allegheny. First Elite Win gives me a leader Caractacus, rename unit to FirstEliteWinEqualsLeaderHa. Will get more armies going. Lets see with 107 cities we can have nearly 27 armies [:P] Assault on Kyoto deserves proper coverage.
Lets go!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 5hp = 2hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 5hp = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 5hp = 4hp pike and retreat.
haha, now we get to continue on the injured [fdevil]
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 4hp = 2hp pike and retreat.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 4hp = 2hp spear and retreat.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 4hp = 2hp spear and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 4hp = Dead Spear for no loss and promoted GS. First Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs vet Spear 4hp = 3hp spear and retreat.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 3hp [groucho] = Dead spear and 1hp GS! Second Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 2hp = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 2hp = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS 4hp vs Vet Spear 2hp = Dead spear and 2hp GS. Third Kill!
Elite GS 5hp vs Vet Spear 2hp = Dead spear and 3hp GS. Fourth Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 1hp = Dead pike, no loss. Fifth Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 1hp = Dead pike and 2hp GS. Sixth Kill!
Vet GS 4hp vs Elite Pike 1hp = Dead pike, no loss. Seventh Kill!
WE TAKE KYOTO, WE LOST 5 GS! THEY WILL PAY! WE WILL SLAUGHTER THEIR KITTENS AND SEW SALT INTO THEIR PILLOWS!!!11!! STUPID KING HILLS!!!!11!"2"!!
Sell the barracks in Kyoto (sheesh its all money right?) and gift to our Iro Killing friend Gandhi! "Please convey my thanks to the generous Celtic people!". Dont worry mate, we'll be back for it [fdevil]
Now there's a couple of galleys south of Mongol Lands that I have no <insert expletive here> idea what they're up to. So I send them randomly .... East towards the "GAP". Oooo mystery!
Strewth! Create ICSnext near USInvasionStartsHere and realise that we can now build the Pentagon in 510AD! Take 4 units into the army? Yes please! Now where to build it... Colville, Tennasee. Yee Haw! 29 turns :(
Whip up some temples!
Gosh first turn over and only an hour later! [:P]
IT - Japs retreat one of our GS. That was about it. India vs Iroquois was inspired KR as Monty seems to be recalling most of his troops to deal with India :D And With Kyoto in the hand of India we can make sure they aren't wiped out until we want them to be :D Joy! Vikings building Knight Templar. Chivalry is on the table.
Turn 02 - 520AD - Attack on Allegheny. The new army takes out a couple of LBs just outside Allegheny. The original Army here attacks a Vet Spear in size 9 city on plains. We kill the spear but lose 9 hps [:O] Accompanying Vet GS takes out the next reg spear for no loss [:P] I continue to attack remaining reg spear with 5hp army. We lose :( That was dumb. Stalled slightly here. I need more GS [:P]. Whip everything I can.
IT - Vikings give our curragh a boot :D Iro LB kills itself on one of our GS onna mountain. Another Jap LB retreats one of our GS. Iros build a welcome party for the Indians, 8 archers, 3 LB and 4 spears.
Turn 03 - 530AD - I do some thinking and looking on the Espionage screen find the Carthage capital, Caralis. Shift-L get the find city thingy and I find The Carthage City! Deep in Iroquois territory. NE of Salamanca. Gonna be hard to get to anytime soon and they have Engineering, question is should I wait for them to get Monotheism? Oh sod it, I make peace with them and get Engineering for 81gold.
Attack on Allegheny part 2.
Hmm that was lame. 12 hp army attacks and takes out the reg spear for 2 hp loss and we take the city.
Attack on Osaka.
Vet GS vs 4hp Vet Pike = 1hp pike and dead GS.
Vet GS vs 4hp vet Spear = 2hp spear and dead GS.
Vet GS vs 4hp vet Spear = 3hp spear and retreat.
Vet GS vs 2hp vet pike = Dead Pike and 2hp GS.
Vet GS vs 3hp vet Spear = Dead spear and 1hp GS.
Elite GS vs 2hp vet spear = Dead spear, no loss.
WE TAKE OSAKA!
Attack on Condote
Vet GS vs 3hp reg pike = 2hp Vet pike and dead GS.
Vet GS vs 3hp reg pike = Dead pike and 1hp GS.
Elite GS vs 2hp vet pike = 2hp vet pike and retreat.
Elite GS vs 2hp vet pike = dead pike and 4hp Elite.
WE TAKE CHONDOTE!
Attack on Akwesasne
Vet GS vs 3hp reg spear = 1hp spear, dead GS
Vet GS vs 3hp reg spear = dead spear and 4hp Elite GS!
Vet GS vs 3hp reg spear = dead spear and 3hp vet GS.
Elite 2hp GS vs 1hp reg spear = dead spear and 2hp Elite GS.
WE TAKE AKWESASNE!
IT - England and Scandinavia sign an MA against the French! Iros attack Akwesasne they lose 2LBs and 7 archers killing only 1 of our GS. French want a word. Peace? No thanks. Taking those 2 Jap cities connected the Ivory in Edo. Several GLTK days kick off [:P]
Turn 04 - 540AD -
Straight to fighting.
Attack on Mauch Chunk
Elite GS vs 3hp reg spear = Catapult! 2hp spear and dead GS.
Elite GS vs 3hp reg spear = Promoted 4hp spear and retreat.
Hmm spend 30 minutes buggering about with workers. Quiet turn.
IT - Iroquois lose about 4 LBs and 2 archers attacking Akwesasne, lol. Japan want peace but wont give Mono for it. Bastards. Bugger off.
Turn 05 - 550AD -
Next scrap.
Attack on Izumo
Vet GS vs 3hp reg pike = Catapult! dead Pike and 3hp Elite GS!
Vet GS vs 3hp reg pike = 2hp pike and retreat.
Elite GS vs 2hp reg pike = dead pike and 4hp GS.
WE TAKE IZUMO!
Elite win on a 1hp LB gives us a leader! Next army to be formed! The taking of Izumo nows joins our empire completely from East to West. Goodjob guys!
Hmm I move more to the front. And rush up some more temples.
Gonna leave the game for the next guy.
I have no more time this weekend. So after 5 turns I'll pass it on. Should be some fun. Armies converging in the southern Iro lands. We are about half way to Domination limit [:P] 3 Armies in the east. About 20-25 GS in the west near Akwesasne. Galleys all in Para. 9 Vet warriors to upgraded in Colville. All former warrior building cities on Colloseums whilst the iron is connected. Gonna be at least 3-4 turns till we disconnect it. Might as well keep the colosseums for the culture.
Oh Iroquois aint that scary because they no longer have horse or iron connected. No pikes here :D
A Map.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/melifluous/2005319175753_FarEast2.JPG
101.61KB
Laters!
Melifluous
Pastorius
19-03-2005, 18:39
nice arrows [groucho]
Melifluous
19-03-2005, 20:26
You dissing my arrows?
You talking to me?
You talking to ME?
[:p]
Melifluous
Good progress there, we have encircled them!
Anarres is UP.
Melifluous
19-03-2005, 21:37
Been giving it a little more thought.
I think we can take the Iroquois with just GS but next after that would be either Boat rides to America/France or the Indians.
I we attack the Indians we are going to have to take the Great Library back. India will have all techs in the world and we may well have made them too hard for GS. Building Knights is gonna suck though. Maybe after the stuff from the Great Library we should beeline to Communism? And go Communist Cavalry?
Its getting harder to defeat pikes (Iroquios have none) but muskets are gonna suck.
Melifluous
Melifluous
19-03-2005, 21:38
quote:Originally posted by akots
Good progress there, we have encircled them!
Anarres is UP.
How about Col if he can take it? [mischief]
Whoever wants it, please post!
It's getting fun now :D
Melifluous
I've been ill, only just seen this. I should be able to get to it tomorrow night (Mon) about 8pm GMT. If anyone can get to it first then please feel free. :)
Umm. I forgot Monday night and last night I had an unexpected guest. :(
Worst is yet to come: I am out tonight with work (unless it gets cancelled), and tomorrow night I have to (yet again) help somone move their belongings from one place to another. [cry]
I hate to say it but I can't play before Friday - so I suggest I am skipped until then when I will make a re-appearance. Again I'm really sorry I couldn't/didn't tell you earlier...
Melifluous
23-03-2005, 18:16
Col!
You're up!
Take the flaming save!
Melifluous
I can play it tomorrow morning. (Thurs am)
edit: got it. Playing.
Melifluous
24-03-2005, 11:36
Groovy man!
Melifluous
whew 5 turns in 2 hours...
Preturn:
Bloody hell - that's a lot of cities and units (102GS + 3armies) to check out. Shit 50 workers and a lot
of slaves. Will anyone notice if I shiftA? Better not. Got one bollocking from Anarres already:P
Hmm - is Japan being left alive for any particular reason? I guess the galley is on iits way to finish them off.
The babs have a settler/spear wandering through our land. They are down to 5 cities.
France has 7 cities. A cfew others with 7. Noone with more. Hmm...
Carthos and China down to 1 city. Are we preserving them?
Nice to see that San Francisco is English.
Press space
560ad: 1
India and Vikings ally against France. Goody. Go kill each other, guys.
Nothing else of interest. An iro archer shoots himself. Lots of settlers complete.
Army(no losses) kills spear in St Regis.
2nd army kills 2 spears and loses 2hp. We take St Regis.
Warriors in Colville upgraded. Need more dosh. Iron left connected until we can upgrade these.
Colleseums left to build.
GS dispatched to galleys. Sending them north.
Whip temples where possible.
570ad: 2
The Iros finish off carthage. Fuck. The Vikings have muskets. Dont want that knowledge spread around.
Time to start building horses? GS wont do much against muskets.
Army takes out 2 spears in Centralia but loses 6hp.
Army takes out 2 spears in Tonathingy but loses 7hp.
Regular GS takes a rock in the head from Trebuchet buts kills archer and takes Tonathingy.
Upgrade a few warriors and pillage the iron again
Vet GS kills spear in MChunk but redlines
2nd vet GS kills spear, relines and takes MChunk. :))
Whip some more temples
580ad: 3
Big battle for Grand River. 3 GS redline and retreat. One dies. Elites move in and pick off redlined defneders but no leaders.
5 spears, 1 archer killed and another rock thrower captured.
Salamanca is next.
590ad: 4
The indians and Iros smoke the peace pipe. An iro galley appears next to Cirta so I whip a warrior there.
The Japanese are no more as Yokohama falls for the loss of one gallant GS.
Centralia falls - one retreat no losses.
Lining up for Salamanca next turn
600ad : 5
Iros and Vikings ally against France.
Hehe - the Iros obligingly capture 2 cats and haul them next to Salamanca for me to recapture.So predictable.
Salamanca falls. Line up for Oil springs and Niagara. The iros have several galleys out there.
Whip whip whip.
Galleys heading to invadeusfromhere.
Melifluous
24-03-2005, 12:52
Great aint it. [goodjob]
Japan not being kept alive that was as far as I got [:p]
Carthage I'd made peace with to get Engineering [goodjob]
China? Thats just a leftover city from the initial push, couldn't be arsed to get a galley of troops over there.
One thing I was doing at the end of every turn was arrow scrolling through all our cities and whipping everything I could, it's quicker.
Also crpMapstat helps to catch rioting cities and possible trades.
Melifluous
Melifluous
I just sort by builds to pick out all the temple builders. It easy to see any that are whippable then. All trades were way too expensive. I'm thinking we need to go horsies and knights soon...once the Iros are done, India will probably be next - but the rest will be much tougher methinks.
Melifluous
24-03-2005, 14:15
Did you notice the indian city in ex-Jap lands?
It has the Great Library in it!
Once we finish off the Iro, we need that back and handily the Indians are next.
So we must start research once more :(
Melifluous
{lol} yes - I noticed Kyoto - but its a bugger to find individual cities now. Took me about 45mins to get a feel of the map again..
There were a lot of fortified GS in cities that didnt need them that were a sod to locate. Better not to fortify anything unless really needed for defense.
Pastorius
29-03-2005, 11:46
quote:Galleys heading to invadeusfromhere
Is that a hint to the AI? Like, invadeusfromhere with a giant naval invasion force of [scared] 2 archers ;)
@Anarres: Are you there? Please may be you can play?
Sorry I just posted at CFC not here.
Played a couple of turns but the cities are in a bit of a bad way so I spent 2 hours on turn 0.
I will finish tomorrw.
Kingreno
30-03-2005, 17:47
quote:I spent 2 hours on turn 0.
[eek] that bad? what were we building? Coastal fortresses?
Hmm. It was a little poor tbh.
I abandoned 2 cities in Japan and I would have taken more if I could without a revolution in the team. The empire is doing much better for it!!! I don't know why people don't SAY if they disagree with me, because doing the exact opposite of what I say will screw us WILL ACTUALLY SCREW US.
Sorry, but that rant was waiting to come out....
Also we need SETTLERS. I have been whipping everywhere, but also setting citizens to food tiles. I can understnad if this is only done every few turns (even 1 in every 5 turns), but we must do it a little (i.e. AT ALL) if we are to end this game this year. Only at size 4 with 10 shields can you rush a settler. Only at size 3 with 30 shields can you build one. I see many cities with 1fpt instead of 2fpt and this will double the time it takes to get a new settler as we are constrained mainly by growth. This growth is exponential as these new settlers make new cities at 1 or 2 fpt, do the maths....
Apart from this there is another HUGE issue that we need to address - WHY are we building temples if we go for ToA??? I would almost say the ToA is useless now, but that is because we have build temples instead of settlers and have at least 30 less cities than we should do from the shield savings. The culture in the older cities are now fucked becuase of it.
TBH I can't see any point in playing this game out unless we can agree on these strategies. I always played SG's like diplo games (or so people tell me) and I get frustrated when 6 or more people all pull in different directions at the same time. This is clear in the temple/ToA issue, where we have totally fucked up and done both - and failed at both.
I don't even want to bring it up, but some things in the game have been ignored completely and we have all lost sight of the big picture. We are at almost 50% land have can not expand too much more, yet no-one has even mentioned it. The Iros MUST be our last conquest if we are also to take Washington and some American lands. If we don't go for ToA we can take India, but that's it.
Wow, a negative post. I want to be a fluffy bunny though, so convince me that we are actually a team that listens to each other (that includes me listening too if this sounds one-sided), and also that we agree to do the same things in the game (like check the only 2 important cities every turn: the 2 settler factories). I know we're all here for different reasons, and I've just realised that maybe they are too different to reconcile. I certainly don't like spending 2 hours "fixing" a game up before I start my turns, and I don't like playing a turn with those mistakes in if I can't correct them.
A note to col: only the settler factory thing from your turns (naughty, as it takes 15 secs a turn to check 5fpt), but the other issues are from the game as a whole and our overall (lack of) strategy and cohesion.
Wow! A nice post!
Regarding ToA - I'm not sure we need it, Pyramids would be more useful imho, we have many old temples. But how many exactly? - Don't know that.
OK, took a long look at the save. Not as long as Anarres had obviously, so sorry for any misconceptions or wrong conclusions.
There has been indeed wild ICS build in Japan. Not sure it was such a good idea since the cities there greatly increase overall corruption around FP region. So, completely second Anarres on bisbanding a few cities there even though they might have some culture.
Another issue is about ToA. The point is that out of about 130 cities, we already have temples in 90 and another 15 are close to having them. Out of 90 cities with temples, in about 20, the culture has already doubled. Assuming that the game lasts roughly to 1500AD, there would be doubling of culture in about 60 cities out of 90 around 1200AD. This gives extra 120cpt on average starting at 1000AD. Hence, actually, having ToA would diminish our gain in culture as it stands now. There are also certain cities which grow very slowly and cannot essentially afford to whip a settler ever and will be apparently stuck with building temple and may be a library by the end of the game. So, I would say that ToA might be useful but it is hard to tell how exactly useful it will be. We will save some cash apparently, but with military phase closing up, there is no way to spend this cash.
Can we get Pyramids? IMHO this is very doable but will take approximately 20 turns without touching America. Why not touch America? We need a few research partners imho. The point is trying to get to Communism. Why? To gain at least one extra food in about 50% of cities which are not built on river tiles and gain extra food from irrigated grasslands. Can this be done within reasonable time? IMHO yes since we have libraries in the core and will be able to build universities there as well. We can also hire a few scientists all over the place if needed. Some cities on good terrain will eventually grow and will have a few extra citizens even after repeated whipping of settlers.
We also are in dear need of monotheism imo and education. This would enable to build some good culture in the core. When we go after India, it might be a good time to capture TGL from them but only after military phase is over and we can be sure we have enough GS to capture Paris and hold it while recapturing in case it flips. It might take about 20 turns or so to get there and we might need about 50 GS (armies we cannot bring there apparently) we have to be on the safe side and surround the city completely. Also, seems that chopping down India and may be part of France as well just to reduce the flip risk, will bring us close enough to Domination limit. We can stop right at the mark which will be 63-64% to be on the safe side.
It will take about 20 turns for our galleys to travel to Kansas city and a couple of turns to get troops to Paris. Hence, it might be a good idea to capture TGL, get or research Astronomy, upgrade the galleys on the way or in the Kansas City area, and ferry GS over to Paris.
Not sure this is the right thing to do but at least this is some sort of a plan to take over.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2005330224423_SGOTM6-600AD.JPG
83.28KB
Kingreno
30-03-2005, 23:40
Anarres,
It is not a biggie but I do feel a bit attacked by this, both as a member of the team and as one of the players (or perhaps it is just me?) who misplaced those Jap cities and more.
To be honest my main goal for this game was to have fun, imho there was and is no realsitic chance this team will make top three. You'd better replace me by Kemal (e.g.) and make some other changes as well. If I remember correctly we also talked about massive AI-rape from day one was the only way to win and we did not do this either.
I am not saying we should just play like shit and that is not what I have been doing, I gave my best shot and this was perhaps not enough, well too bad... (Judged by the time others spent on this they can be seen as very committed as well). But as long as we extensively discuss the benefits of both ToA and Communism I truly cannot be arsed about deeply exploring the strategic level of play we're in.
I did learn however that being in a SG is something to think about very very careful next time.
Well, it is not over until it is over. We can still at least try to turn the tide imho.
Let's indeed stop flaming and go to constructive planning. Mea cupla as well, sorry about that.
Melifluous
31-03-2005, 00:43
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
Anarres,
It is not a biggie but I do feel a bit attacked by this, both as a member of the team and as one of the players (or perhaps it is just me?) who misplaced those Jap cities and more.
To be honest my main goal for this game was to have fun, imho there was and is no realsitic chance this team will make top three. You'd better replace me by Kemal (e.g.) and make some other changes as well. If I remember correctly we also talked about massive AI-rape from day one was the only way to win and we did not do this either.
I am not saying we should just play like shit and that is not what I have been doing, I gave my best shot and this was perhaps not enough, well too bad... (Judged by the time others spent on this they can be seen as very committed as well). But as long as we extensively discuss the benefits of both ToA and Communism I truly cannot be arsed about deeply exploring the strategic level of play we're in.
I did learn however that being in a SG is something to think about very very careful next time.
dude!
Like totally chill out man!
anarres may come here with his "We should have done A and like totally B was abvious" but as it goes
a) SGs are normally a hap-hazard affair.
b) I dont feel we have to 'prove' how good our forum is.
c) akots is normally wrong [:p]
d) Your turns rocked dude!!
e) We could do with 'talking' instead of just following.
f) YOU ARE NOT ANARRES THE CIV3 MACHINE!!!
[lol]
Cheer the fuck up men! Tis but a game.
It's like the old man said (sorry col)
Melifluous
Pastorius
31-03-2005, 10:45
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
Anarres,
It is not a biggie but I do feel a bit attacked by this, both as a member of the team and as one of the players (or perhaps it is just me?) who misplaced those Jap cities and more.
To be honest my main goal for this game was to have fun, imho there was and is no realsitic chance this team will make top three. You'd better replace me by Kemal (e.g.) and make some other changes as well. If I remember correctly we also talked about massive AI-rape from day one was the only way to win and we did not do this either.
I am not saying we should just play like shit and that is not what I have been doing, I gave my best shot and this was perhaps not enough, well too bad... (Judged by the time others spent on this they can be seen as very committed as well). But as long as we extensively discuss the benefits of both ToA and Communism I truly cannot be arsed about deeply exploring the strategic level of play we're in.
I did learn however that being in a SG is something to think about very very careful next time.
dude!
Like totally chill out man!
anarres may come here with his "We should have done A and like totally B was abvious" but as it goes
a) SGs are normally a hap-hazard affair.
b) I dont feel we have to 'prove' how good our forum is.
c) akots is normally wrong [:p]
d) Your turns rocked dude!!
e) We could do with 'talking' instead of just following.
f) YOU ARE NOT ANARRES THE CIV3 MACHINE!!!
[lol]
Cheer the fuck up men! Tis but a game.
It's like the old man said (sorry col)
Melifluous
Not that I reply to Meli's posts, but
Well put!
Kingreno
31-03-2005, 11:37
Mel, As said it was not a real biggie so calme per sempre. It's about the same when a couple of turns ago you reacted on Akots' can't be arsed remark after spending a lot of time on a turn.:)
Basicly IMHO we should not extensively discuss a few misplaced cities (no pic, so cannot judge where and which) if we don't micromanage the cities that benefit from abandonning them!
Even worse, we have to decide if we want ToA (and thus no IA let alone Communism) or not. It would realy suck if one player goes to a lot of trouble to capture this wonder only for the next to get the Great library the very next session. What will it be? I vote for Commi.
I played last night but my internet is down again at home. I also brought it in to work on a memory stick and although it has the notes the save is missing [???] so I am about to go home to pick it up again...
The actual log is really brief because IMO you don't need to know the specific city names I made for ICS cities. I made between 3 and 5 cities a turn on everage, and about 20 pop points in rushes each turn (note that I have been rushing from 1 shield to 20 (spear) then barracks (40) then granary (60) then Lib (80). In this way a newly captured city of size 5 can have a lib in 2 turns from capture. I have also been disbanding the odd warrior/settler/GS where appropriate for building culture, including a GS in a newly captured city before rushing 1 pop for a temple. I believe that disbanding units will soon become the main way of generating culture.
I will post my summary of what I think we should do first, followed by the turns log:
* Abandon our ToA attack
* Use the units ready for the attack to head East to India
* Attack India and take their lands
* Whip every turn including part-whipping and whipping simply to keep pop down
Example: When you have size 3 city at 0fpt (no growth), 22 shields towards Lib, 2 tiles used are 1fpt and no spare 2fpt tiles available, you should rush to barracks (22 -> 40 shields) then rush to granary (40 -> 60), then set back to Lib (60/80 shields). Now at size 1 you are back to 2fpt growth and have 60 shields.
* Take GL soon and research to Commie. When we get Education start on Unis in ALL core cities immediately.
Note that using MapStat I can do the following for each turn:
* Identify any cities that will riot in seconds (not checking that shitty F1 list)
* Identify citits that have grown this turn (so you can assign those 1fpt tiles to 2fpt tiles)
* Check possible trades in seconds
Now, without mapstat I could NOT have assigend the new citizens to 2fpt tiles without checking every city. Checking cities takes 20 mins, checking mapstat takes 20 seconds. Trade checking is also trivial...
And the turns:
Preturn (600AD): Set some marginal (40 to 60% corruption) core cities to Libs instead of settlers.
AI: Babs demand 50 gold and I tell them to fuck off and die. He backs down.
Turn 1 (610AD): Take Oil Springs for no loss and Niagra Falls for 1 GS.
I decide to build a colleseum in both of our core settler factories, they are not currently at 5fpt anyway so it seems like a good time.
Turn 2 (620AD): Take Calaris for no loss.
Turn 3 (630AD): Cattaraugus and Tyendenaga are both taken for no loss.
Turn 4 (640AD): Kolhapur taken for no loss. I'm pretty much out of Iroquois cities now - just a couple of stragglers we can ignore if we want.
Turn 5 (650AD): On the trade front all has been quiet, although this turn England has wine and gems available. Note that we will culture-grab some wine from India in 4 turns when borders expand.
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
Mel, As said it was not a real biggie so calme per sempre. It's about the same when a couple of turns ago you reacted on Akots' can't be arsed remark after spending a lot of time on a turn.:)
Basicly IMHO we should not extensively discuss a few misplaced cities (no pic, so cannot judge where and which) if we don't micromanage the cities that benefit from abandonning them!
Even worse, we have to decide if we want ToA (and thus no IA let alone Communism) or not. It would realy suck if one player goes to a lot of trouble to capture this wonder only for the next to get the Great library the very next session. What will it be? I vote for Commi.
Come now, why the offense taken? If I can't say the cities in Japan were a mistake why are we even here? It was no personal insult to anyone, especially you. :)
Now, on the specific bit I highlighted, I still think I am right and I won't apologise for saying what I think. Those cities were a mistake for our empire and have restrained it when it needs to be maximised. To you the matter is trivial, but to me it is not as it will affect our whole empire.
Culture games must be played "for the long run" since they last so long, and we will need every spare gpt we can get. If the effect of those cities is (for example) -5spt and -6gpt then that alone is reason not to build them. However I am pretty convinced we are talking about -15 to -20spt/gpt at least. This is not trivial by any means.
Furthermore, no-one from the team has done anything to improve the Japan lands with workers. Just a couple were in there when I got the turn, now there are about 20 workers there or in our capital waiting to head over the channel.
What we have is a new set of core cities with undeveloped land around them, and a host of core cities on the other side that are now 50 to 80% corrupt (about 10% more than I think they should be).
This is just what I chose to focus on. I could easily have complained about half our corrupt cities using at least 1 1fpt tile, and having 0 or 1 fpt spare instead of 2. I didn't, becasue to fix it people would either need to (1) use Map Stat (Kemal hates it) or (2) check every city evey turn. As it was, I explicitly raised the issue of the Jap cities earlier, which is why I was frustrated when my comments were ignored and the cities built anyway.
Anyway, as you say, we are not going to be top 3. I never thought we would and it's not what I am aiming for.
Even if we play this as a normal SG and not for the SGOTM I would still say the same things because I don't like playing if we are all doing different things. I am sure even you can agree this team is pulling in several directions atm and that MUST be addressed.
Hmm, this was meant be a "peace post" but it went wrong. TBH I can understand you being offended, but I feel you have misunderstood my intent if that is the case. We HAVE to be able to be frank with each other without it automatically being a problem, and I'm not sure what the solution is.
quote:Originally posted by anarres
(...)
(1) use Map Stat (Kemal hates it)
(...)
Wow, 2nd time in a short period I see my name popping up! :)
Thanks for caring about my sentiments anarres, but really, (even if how I felt about it mattered one bit in this particular case) I can assure I have no problems at all if you or anyone else uses Mapstat for games like these, actually I would recommend them, I have used earlier versions of Mapstat from time to time too in my GotM period.
It is only the supposedly hidden information that it reveals in PBEM games that I am opposed against, especially in >2 human PBEMs, but the same goes for civassistant and other 3rd party programs that can be used with civ.
But considering I'm not even playing in this game - while I appreciate the thought of course- I don't understand: why bother about how I'd feel about it?
Feel free to use it if the team agrees and if it is within SGOTM rules, I'd say! :)
Weird - I just got home and internet is back so I uploaded the save from there.
I meant that I use it Kemal, just that I know you don't use it. Because of this it seems futile to complain about the 0fpt/1fpt corrupt cities, since to resolve the issue you would need to use MapStat or cycle though each city every turn.
FWIW there is no spoiler info in the version I am using. [???]
quote:FWIW there is no spoiler info in the version I am using. AFAIK the latest version does not reveal any spoiler info for PBEM games anymore. Sadly there have been versions, that showed opponents tech, cash, cities, full map info and much more in multiplayer games.
Those are the ones I am opposed against indeed, any external program showing stuff as luxes, techs, gold etc. If newer versions work spoilerfree, I have no problems with those whatsoever of course.
Btw, @anarres: again in this case to resolve the issue I wouldn't have to do anything, as I'm not participating. Or is the current Mapstat some program that becomes an integral part of the C3C program, i.e. you use it automatically with every game played if installed? If so, I might complain because of the Swimming Pool, if the current version would still spoil info. If not, I don't see why I should use it to fix something in your game. :)
But maybe I'm just totally missing the point here... [crazyeye]
It seems that jeffelammar's team have finished the game or almost finished. 1300AD plus a few turns (probably 7-8).
Darkness
31-03-2005, 15:38
quote:Originally posted by grs
quote:FWIW there is no spoiler info in the version I am using. AFAIK the latest version does not reveal any spoiler info for PBEM games anymore. Sadly there have been versions, that showed opponents tech, cash, cities, full map info and much more in multiplayer games.
I agree. I also use the latest version of mapstat for my COTM games, and it doesn't contain spoilers for PBEMs.
Pastorius
31-03-2005, 15:44
AFAIK, Dianthus has adressed the stuff that spoiled pbem games when using the CRP suite
Wow Kemal, I brain farted and got this game confused with another (can't even remember which). [lol]
Edit: I uploaded to CFC fine, it's just the fora that are up/down/up/down, etc
Future SGOTM games will have a tag in the scenario which will allow Dianthus' suite to identify it and disable all spoiler info. This has also been done for GOTM. I'm sorry I didn't do it for this game, but I was only made aware of the issue after the game had started. Only then could I contact Dianthus and negotiate a solution.
anarres: Ainwood has a utility that does all that mapstat does on the fly using autosaves. It also alerts for all the things you mention at the beginning of each turn. I am also beta testing a version which auto updates all this stuff every time you hit CTRL-C. It's quicker than mapstat, and it appears that the culture calculation is more accurate too. You can find it in the utilities thread at CFC.
Apologies for the double post.
BTW, our score is now 2nd of all teams, and our culture is hitting the up curve steeply. I don't think we are doing badly compared to the other teams at all (and FWIW I never thought we were doing badly).
My only concern was and is the lack of overal strategy and cohesion. If something is discussed in the thread then I guess I feel people should follow it or at least say in the thread that they don't intend to. If we get this right so much will fall in to place...
I've just arrived back after a few days in the lake Disrict drinking beer and walking the dogs all day. Criticism is taken in the spirit in which it is given. For my turns, I've read the previous log and have tried to keep the same general strategy going without making any major shifts of policy that havent been discussed. I dont we are doing so badly either although, to be honest, the competitive element of this SG is not terribly important to me.
It can be difficult, at times, though to know what overall strategy has been decided. We have discussions without generally reaching any great conclusion - I suppose that's normally the case with most SGs. In this game where there is a mountain of cities and units, its hard to know what overall strategy we are following beyond: 'reach the dom limit asap, build lots of cities, whip temples'.
Actually, we need 3 things IMHO: Pyramids, Communism, and Rep Parts. I will try to start to work on the first and advance towards the second and third.
Pastorius
01-04-2005, 18:44
I m surprised you guys (read: Meli) didnt start a thread for general strategy discussion back when all the other cool threads were setup
Melifluous
01-04-2005, 19:32
I spam, I dont decide policy!
Imagine if Tommy Cooper ran the UK or Dennis Leary ran the US! [:o]
Would be a funny but probably not well run world [:p]
Melifluous
Melifluous
01-04-2005, 19:35
Slick ;)
Melifluous
Ok, I spent about an hour looking through the save and I'm really pissed. It will be very surprising if we don't kill each other in the end.
Just a few ridiculous things noticed:
1) We are frantically pop-rushing settlers all over the place. Yet there are 10 (!!!!) settlers idle in the USInvasion and they are just sitting there doing nothing. There is a plenty of unsettled lands. If they were just walked over there and build something... Can somebody please explain this to me?
2) If we were going for the US, why there is only few troops there, 10 GS or so, same as the number of settlers? What was going on around there?
3) There were about a dozen cities which had +1fpt working a 2-food tile and a 1-food tile and allowed to grow. These should be whipped as soon as they reach size 2 or set to build workers apparently.
4) We are building Coloseums all over the place yet why not Cathedrals?
5) Why did we start to make horsemen and stopped warrior/GS cycle? I guess the whole idea of sitting without Feudalism and not capturing TGL was to build as many GS as possible but we have a bunch of gold now and nowehere to put it and not enough troops to climb over India or America.
6) The galleys near USInvasion were fortified apparently for the last 25 turns and did not move anywhere. If they would have been moved somewhere closer to France, there would be some chance for the Pyramids.
There is no point in arguing imho. What has been done is done and lets forget about it. The point is how to get out of this mess with minimal losses.
So, please, discuss and approve or disapprove before I start to do something.
A) Send as many galleys and units to France as possible. It might be not enough but there might be some reinforcement out of Iro massacre.
B) There is no way to build many warriors rapidly since we are building horsemen or Coliseums all over the core with occasional settlers. I don't see how we can spend the gold we have rapidly. So, I would just forget about this cash and turn on research. But first thing first.
C) Capture TGL from India. This would kill ToA idea once and for all but will allow to build Cathedrals and Universities in the core which are substantially more efficient for culture. Set research to something meaningful to try to advance to Communism and Steam Power ASAP. Steal or buy from AI whatever we don't get from TGL.
D) Assemble all GS and try to take Paris and hold it by all costs breaking reputation if needed for its price is low. We are powerful and can afford that.
Please note this is pure rant and nothing else. No offense implied intentionally. But the intellectual input is highly desirable. And I'm not going to play until we all more or less agree to follow the issues.
This is because assault on Paris needs more than 10 turns!!!!!!
[cry]
[cry]
[cry]
Melifluous
02-04-2005, 13:18
And I suppose this what pisses anarres off more than anything.
People ignoring what he posts.
If maybe instead of spending 30 minutes writing that post you could have 10 minutes reading the posts from (and this is the important bit) the person who played the turns before yours
There you would see that there is a tacit agreement on going Commie.
Too many temples built means that ToA is pretty useless.
Finish Iros off and then take a nibble at India.
Get TGL.
Build Unis is core cities.
We have some settlers, but building on ex-Jap lands (which are reletively undeveloped) fucks our FP lands (which are more developed).
Once research is back in place we need horse for upgrades.
quote:
No offense implied intentionally
Just implied from not reading anarres' posts [:p]
Melifluous.
PS. And dude, that is one weird bastard of a double post [goodjob]
Kingreno
02-04-2005, 13:20
I just know I am going to post something about Coastal fortresses when I get the turn.:D
Pastorius
02-04-2005, 13:22
Arent Celts religious and agricultural? And arent you guys emperor and beyond level players?
Me no understand colosseum better than cathedral, especially considering that anarres has stressed cost benefit analysis more than once (shield cost vs benefit)
From a lurker perspective, I think you guys need to sit back, take a look at the game in total, and agree on a set of goals before you continue. Consistency is key, me thinks
Kingreno
02-04-2005, 13:25
In general it is far better to build Cathedrals, however, since we lack Monotheism, we do not even know how to build one. If, as Anarres says, the settler facs are screwed it is a possibilty to build culture there, hence the colosseum.
@Meli: Don't know how I copied the post, complete mistery to me. But I deleted it, that is for sure.
So, do we all agree on these plans?
quote:Originally posted by akots
Ok, I spent about an hour looking through the save and I'm really pissed. It will be very surprising if we don't kill each other in the end.
Just a few ridiculous things noticed:
1) We are frantically pop-rushing settlers all over the place. Yet there are 10 (!!!!) settlers idle in the USInvasion and they are just sitting there doing nothing. There is a plenty of unsettled lands. If they were just walked over there and build something... Can somebody please explain this to me?Well, it's about 20 turns to the "empty" lands by foot. If we don't go for ToA (likely option) I thought we would ferry them east to the new lands (India/Iros) and they will get there much quicker than over land or via the ferry in the capital.
quote:2) If we were going for the US, why there is only few troops there, 10 GS or so, same as the number of settlers? What was going on around there?I pretty much felt that we were not going for the US anymore...
quote:3) There were about a dozen cities which had +1fpt working a 2-food tile and a 1-food tile and allowed to grow. These should be whipped as soon as they reach size 2 or set to build workers apparently.Not always. What if they have 16 shields towards a library and have just reached size 2 like this? Do you whip now, or wait 4 turns till you have 20 shields and can part-rush via a barracks? Hint: (usually) wait 4 turns
I have to admit it's possible I missed 1 or 2 but I doubt I missed a dozen (unless they are like the type a described above, which I believe several are).
quote:4) We are building Coloseums all over the place yet why not Cathedrals?Hmm. I assume this is just a mistake of a question?
quote:5) Why did we start to make horsemen and stopped warrior/GS cycle? I guess the whole idea of sitting without Feudalism and not capturing TGL was to build as many GS as possible but we have a bunch of gold now and nowehere to put it and not enough troops to climb over India or America.How much more fighting is there to do? How many units do we have? I don't think we need to rush any more GS's for war. 88 seems easily enough. [???]
In addition, if 88 *isn't* enough don't you think we'll need knights by then?
quote:6) The galleys near USInvasion were fortified apparently for the last 25 turns and did not move anywhere. If they would have been moved somewhere closer to France, there would be some chance for the Pyramids.Load the save before mine and check where the units were. Most were "on route" up to US Invasion because I didn't want to totally deny the chance to go to the US if we wanted to, and they were alredy moving there. Don't know where 25 turns comes from? [???]
quote:A) Send as many galleys and units to France as possible. It might be not enough but there might be some reinforcement out of Iro massacre.
B) There is no way to build many warriors rapidly since we are building horsemen or Coliseums all over the core with occasional settlers. I don't see how we can spend the gold we have rapidly. So, I would just forget about this cash and turn on research. But first thing first.
C) Capture TGL from India. This would kill ToA idea once and for all but will allow to build Cathedrals and Universities in the core which are substantially more efficient for culture. Set research to something meaningful to try to advance to Communism and Steam Power ASAP. Steal or buy from AI whatever we don't get from TGL.
D) Assemble all GS and try to take Paris and hold it by all costs breaking reputation if needed for its price is low. We are powerful and can afford that.Yes to all but if we are going for Paris we should start our diplomatic war now. Get MA's with England and Scandanavia if possible, and embargos from everyone else if they can trade.
I am definintly for taking the GL now, and also taking over India.
Thanks for clearing that up. :)
For me, it is easier to browse all cities every turn than trying to locate them by MapStat especially considering wild forest chop which is impossible to follow.
OK, the galleys will then set sail west and more west dropping settlers on the way and loaded with whatever GS we might find our there.
Seems that knights are a good choice but we might have not enough troops to rapidly devastate India and what remains out of Iro. A number of GS are scattered around. Aparently, good idea might be declared to India, capture TGL and let them attack with whatever they have may be making alliance against Ghandi with Babylon. Actually Babylonian military is average to ours, so India will be likely torn apart into pieces and we just walk in and take what is ours.
Then seems a good idea to leave at least some of the gold for horse-knight upgrades.
Col.Tarleton
03-04-2005, 17:07
Reading this game is so entertaining,rather like watching Newcastle v Aston Villa :D,
Have you tried ship chaining to move your troops,quickly.The top teams use it extensivly.
Preturn: Surveyed all cities and changed many builds rushing where it was required and switching to food-rich tiles. Allied America against France for Incense + 2gpt. Great Library cannot be captured this turn, we still need a last round of upgrades before going for India.
[1] Kahna taken, only 1 GS lost, but 5 retreated. I take peace with Iro for 2 remote cities in the hills north of India. The cities might be taken by India though. Browsed through cities again and rushed many builds, mostly libraries with a few settlers. Still cannot take Great Library, not enough workers to road iron.
[2] Last round of upgrades finished. We are down to 1K gold but up to 101 GS. Declare to India and take Great Library. Take Karachi. Allied Babylon against India. That would be some fun apparently since they had RoP. I ask Babylon to withdraw since we don’t have RoP with them and they declare. It is a mess out there. The F4 screen looks weird, I have omitted China from the picture just because they don’t matter. IBT: We lose a city which was recently acquired from Iro for peace. We learn bottom tree to Chemistry and top tree to Education but no Education yet.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054464114_SGOTM6-670AD.JPG
101.78 KB
[3] Changed many builds to Cathedrals, rushed many Libraries. Bengal and Madras captured.
[4] Many builds ready, rushed some more, Bangalore captured from Babylon actually.
[5] Delhi captured. Again browsed through all cities. Still have not turned on research, waiting for Education. May be it is a mistake.
[6] Thing moving a bit faster, finally somehow got a hold on the game in terms of what to rush and when.
[8] Bombay captured. Lahore also somehow captured. Evil Babylon advanced with a huge SOD towards our size 1 jungle city and will raze it probably. City gifted to China as consolation. Finally got enough workers to connect iron within a single turn.
[9] More builds and more whipping. May be I’m overdoing it but most of cities are at size 1.
[10] We are at 15417 culture and added 516 cpt form the preceding turn. Not too bad indeed. The fleet with 16GS is 2 turns away from landing and India is down to 3 cities. It might be possible to continue whipping when towns are on even shields. We have settlers, barracks, and granaries/harbors as intermediates for whipping. Core is almost completely "Cathedralized". Education is not around yet but Vikings have Metallurgy.
IMHO, we can have a break with Pyramids. It is certainly a critical wonder. Otherwise, the game is rather boring like any 100K cultural.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2005446420_SGOTM6-750AD.JPG
74.39 KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054464225_SGOTM6-750ADa.JPG
171.58 KB
Kingreno is UP.
@Killer: Want jump in and play a few turns? While there is still a possibility?
Investigation of the cultural graph shows that at the very same time (750AD), team Offa had about 22-25K culture. They started really intensive cultural build up at around 10AD plus minus 10 turns. Apparently, their expansion phase was started earlier as well but not much earlier. They started to gain score around 350BC. We started about 10-15 turns later and substantially more slowly. Dunno, it is complicated. To me it looks like they went for Japan first instead of China.
Kingreno
04-04-2005, 19:32
I won't be able to play this till thursday...so killer if you want?
Lt. Killer M
04-04-2005, 20:08
sorry, I have a big talk thrusday next week that requires roughly 6 weeks of work to prepare - and I just started yesterday [eek]
Col.Tarleton
05-04-2005, 17:08
Perhaps you should try ye olde Great Library slingshot.Gift it to a weak civ,do not research education,take it back at your leisure.
Melifluous
05-04-2005, 17:23
Dude.
We kinda just done that ...
Does anyone read this thread? [rant]
Melifluous
Kingreno
05-04-2005, 17:30
Ok, will play thursday then, if there are any takers that can and want to take sooner please do so.
Col.Tarleton
05-04-2005, 19:39
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
Dude.
We kinda just done that ...
Does anyone read this thread? [rant]
Melifluous
If you are refering to the great library,where does Akots say he gifted it away?[python]
I did not gift, but Meli gifted it to Indians iirc.
Tech pace on this map seems kinda very slow even for Emperor. We might want even to research Education by ourselves once military phase is over. But I have a feeling it is coming. Hopefully, some AI other than Vikings might discover it (Babylon or America?) and trade with Vikings for Metallurgy and better sooner than later.
However, military phase is not over and we might need a few troops to secure Paris and retake it in case of flipping. And set some ship chain from Kasnas city towards France if needed.
Col.Tarleton
06-04-2005, 15:43
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
Dude.
We kinda just done that ...
Does anyone read this thread? [rant]
Melifluous
I see,the sugar plum fairy has tired of slagging off his team mates and has decided to start on the not so innocent bystander.
I suggest that when,if,you ever finish this game that you read one of your competitors games to see how an SG should be played.
I have read many SG's and whilst there is sometimes dissension in the game,I've never seen such dysfunction as is shown by this team.
I really don't like being represented by this team.
I don't know who gave you permission to represent CDZ and at first I was ok with it but your complete disregard for the nicetes has made me change my mind.
I am not in any way critisizing you teams abilities at playing Civ but rather your style.
Any of the other teams that read this thread will laugh their cocks off at your ineptitude.
Melifluous
06-04-2005, 15:55
Interesting points raised dude.
Also interesting that my post seems to have irritated you today, whereas it didnt when you replied to it last night? [crazyeye]
I am not 'slagging you off' and I apologise if any offence was taken, I suppose a simple reference to the many posts in this thread that talked about gifting TGL to India would have sufficed.
quote:
I don't know who gave you permission to represent CDZ and at first I was ok.
Now I'm just gonna laugh at this [lol]
Having the owner of the site in the team generally ok's such a move.
Melifluous
PS. Thanks for that, my birthday today and I get shit from some dude that obviously dont know me.
quote:Originally posted by Col.Tarleton
I see,the sugar plum fairy has tired of slagging off his team mates and has decided to start on the not so innocent bystander.Welcome to the world of Meli. ;)
quote:I suggest that when,if,you ever finish this game that you read one of your competitors games to see how an SG should be played.I am sure you know most of us are SG vets...
quote:I have read many SG's and whilst there is sometimes dissension in the game,I've never seen such dysfunction as is shown by this team.Yes, there is a first for everything. :D
Not sure how you equate team disfunction with not knowing how an SG is run...
quote:I really don't like being represented by this team.
I don't know who gave you permission to represent CDZ and at first I was ok with it but your complete disregard for the nicetes has made me change my mind.Well, we don't NEED permission from anyone (including me). We were a group of CDZ people that wanted to take part in an SG at CFC. I'm pretty certain we never said we represented everyone, and in fact based on how CDZ is run we CAN'T represent everyone if we wanted to.
quote:I am not in any way critisizing you teams abilities at playing Civ but rather your style.
Any of the other teams that read this thread will laugh their cocks off at your ineptitude.
Well, it is good you feel free to let us know what you think. It is certainly one of the reasons I like this place.
Your final statement seems to be aimed at upsetting some of us, but personally I don't give a fuck for what anyone thinks. Well, unless they have constructive criticism. ;)
Lt. Killer M
06-04-2005, 15:59
quote:Originally posted by Col.Tarleton
I don't know who gave you permission to represent CDZ
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????
A funny question for sure, but at least it's a change from "who is your foreign ambassador?"... [crazyeye]
DrAlimentado
06-04-2005, 16:31
[rotfl]
DrAlimentado
06-04-2005, 16:52
you guys still have <b>my</b> permission [lol]
Melifluous
06-04-2005, 16:53
Bit that confused me most was the fact that Col. Tarleton seems to have answered me twice here in 2 days? [crazyeye]
Could someone else be using his account to access our secret SGOTM6 plans?
Are the other teams actually worries at our skill?
Melifluous
Pastorius
06-04-2005, 17:05
Urgent poll: http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2577
[mischief]
Kingreno
06-04-2005, 17:24
quote:I really don't like being represented by this team.
[mwaha]
The others were funny but this one does it for me. So, now that I am playing I am not only switching all cities to coastal fortresses (inlands to wealth as there is NO other option[tongue]), but I am doing that in YOUR name. yeah baby!
Sorry Col Tarton, it's a fucking jungle in here! [crazyeye]
FWIW you had a valid beef with Meli but it looks like you should have kept your posts directed at him. [ponder]
Melifluous
06-04-2005, 17:33
Weird all it took was one dude telling us how crap we are to get us all pulling in the same direction!
[goodjob]
Melifluous
Melifluous
06-04-2005, 17:36
quote:Originally posted by anarres
FWIW you had a valid beef with Meli
[slap]
Melifluous
As I've said, I'm quite happy to take criticism in the spirit that its intended, so fuck off.
Melifluous
06-04-2005, 18:38
WoooooOOOooooOOOOOooooOOOOooooOO
Melifluous
quote:Originally posted by Col.Tarleton
... I suggest that when,if,you ever finish this game that you read one of your competitors games to see how an SG should be played. ...
Well, how did they know how to play a SG? By reading classic SGs played by Meli and played by Anarres. ;) And learning the tricks from the earlier SGOTMs. ;)
Anyhow, fair notion since we lack the surgical precision of the Offa team. But not a fair notion since we are actually doing OK and might even try to finish second if we focus and go constructive way towards culture. A few costal fortresses won't hurt either. [lol] And the spirit, the spirit... it is darn important also. :)
Threadjacking:
You aimed for the ToA for cheap temples in a 100k game. I did the same in a recent COTM game and I see in shock and horror, that my temples did not double cultre after 1000 years. Did you know that? I completely screws every 100k tactic relying on the ToA if that is true :( Anyone know for sure?
It seems that this is true. Unless there are really many cities. When speaking of many, we are talking probably about over 300. May be even up to 400 which is barely possible on a standard map.
If a city has a 'real' temple on top of the free ToA temple, the temple's culture output gets doubled.
In case a city has a temple under construction when the ToA wonder completes, the real temple will still be finished (although the city then already has a 'free' temple; city must not switch production, of course). Thus, it will eventually double culture.
Upkeep isn't needed for for real temples with the ToA in place - so the wonder at least helps here.
Kingreno
07-04-2005, 11:52
750 AD:
All units have moved so I pressed enter.
IT:
Babs attack GS in the jungle. They have Knights and Muskets and I do not think we can hold them much longer.
760 AD:
The Fleet moves towards France as we agreed but there are Musketeers there. That means 5 defence vs our 3 offense, we will not be able to take Paris this way!
I move a SoD to Indians cap.
Vikings have Education now.
IT: Babs have a mighty army, at least 15 Knights spotted going our way.
770 AD:
We get Education from the Glib, obsoleting it, but not before we also get Metalurgy.
IT: 40 Bab units comming to several cities.
780 AD: I fortify 9 Knights and 20 GS in one city where walls were rushed, the city has a SoD of Babylon next to it. Let's hope they'll bite
Vikings have MilTrad
IT: they sort'a bite, we lose just 6 but they lose 14, 8 Bowmen pass teh city and go towards an empty city.
Babs land some units and move a load of Knights accross the Moutnains.
790AD: Kill a bit. RNG sucks, still no leader.
IT: Too many babs. make peace asap.
800AD: I make peace for a city and gold. better then nothing.
As our core is making culture we may have to halt wars and focus on culture, our land is already huge. Taking out the babs is simply not doable atm.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20054711521_800mm.jpg
10.46*KB
Meli is UP
Seems like a good progress based on score and cultural graph. But we really need Paris. IMHO, it is worth to send all available troops there by setting a galley chain from Kansas city. 20 knights will certainly do the job and probably less than 20. Or 30 GS. Might be we don't need more land but we surely need the Pyramids. At least have to try hard to get them.
Kingreno
07-04-2005, 12:39
I founded a city S-SW of Paris, it already has 16 GS.
Indeed, there are 12 GS ready to attack Paris. It is not very risky since many will retreat. It's Meli's call but worth a shot certainly. There should be no more than 5 or may be 6 muketeers there, probably possible to take it even on this turn.
And the game won't last to Communism obviously. We just need the Pyramids and some more cities, may be indeed set a ship chain to ferry settlers and workers to this mighty Indian/Iro jungle from the core once Universities there are ready. Seems possible to whip there as needed also but might be a bit too early.
Time to start to vulture if we can get settlers to foreign war zones. The wide spread of muskets and knights and the imminent cav probably mean a halt to our warring.
We don't need more land, we need more cities I think. Pyramids sure, but I don't think we need to worry about any other land aquisition.
Kingreno
07-04-2005, 14:49
Any effort to get more land would cost us way too much. I say we disband Units when needed. The great Jungle in former India has enough spots for a huge number of new cities.
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
I say we disband Units when needed.Great minds and all that! I was just thinking about disbanding being our (new) quick way of rushing.
Once core cities have completed their cultural buildings they should build whatever military unit doesn't waste too many shields and send it to the corrupt wastelands.
Kingreno
07-04-2005, 17:11
Can we join workers to cities for [whipped]?
I dont think its allowed under the rules of this comp.
Hmm, lets find the letter of the law, since any adding to cities would be useful.
IIRC you can add - just not for the sole purpose of rushing that city (so you can't add 3 and rush 60 shields). It does beg the question: can we add at all since every city will be whipped at some point?
For example, the Chinese land is fully improved there. There is no sense to let the workers travel for 20 turns to get to Carthaginian land. IMHO, we can join them up there in Chinese land and whip them. But not too many. Just some and only in improved area. Massive abuse would be against the rule. But small here and there seems might be OK. We ain't joining them specifically to whip, there is just nothing left for them to do and too far to travel to where their effort is needed.
Col.Tarleton
07-04-2005, 18:04
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Sorry Col Tarton, it's a fucking jungle in here! [crazyeye]
FWIW you had a valid beef with Meli but it looks like you should have kept your posts directed at him. [ponder]
Thank you Anarres,you're a gentleman and a scholar.
I knew what I was getting into and expected some abuse.
I do however wish you all the best and hope that you do indeed get in the places.
Yours sincerely,
Molified of Tonbridge Wells.
What I wanted to say is that we are not allowed to specifically build workers in one place to join them to the cities in another place with the goal of whipping. But once the worker is done with his workings, we are free to do as it seems fit. Same for slaves. I'd whip settlers with them or culture, depending on where what is more needed.
Melifluous
10-04-2005, 22:31
Merde Alors.
I've erm been in France. Sorry for not posting sooner.
Can takes the game now.
Melifluous
Will you try to go take Paris THIS TURN? 11 or so GS are unmoved...
Melifluous
12-04-2005, 17:09
I did indeed try to take Paris. Notice the emphasis on try.
However, and I hope you dont mind a little spoiler here.
I did continue in the 1st real turn and managed to
a) Get a MGL from the attack.
b) Kill all defenders in Paris
c) Kill a french MGL
d) Take Paris with 2 units left.
Next question is can I hold it?
Melifluous
Well, you can always make peace with France (screw that rep, we don't need it anyhow) and hope it does not flip while reinforcements are coming there from the south-west. When reinforcements arrive, just take out all surrounding cities to decrease flip chances. May be through RoP abuse. I know, it sounds evil, but I'm sure other teams used this tactics a lot.
Melifluous
12-04-2005, 18:38
The 2 units I have holding the city are a 3 GS army :D and an Elite GS called "Les Rosbiffs" [mischief].
Might hold it?
But French cap moved to the city next door to the NE. {:(]
Melifluous
Probably French units will attack the army if it is in the city. Whatever their chances are, be it knights or spearmen. Fortunately, they don't have cavalry and they are at war with a few other good guys. May be, make alliance with the Vikings against France? Don't know really.
What are the flip chances according to MapStat? If around 1% or slightly less, no need to worry. If it is over 2%, might be better keep the army out and try to retake it when it flips or get captured but not sure how the food supplies will behave themselves. IIRC, when granary in the city is lost and then regained even the very same turn, the food bin is screwed, not sure how.
Also, starving/rushing the units or buildings there would decrease flip chances and increase local culutre of ours in that particular place. Temple for starters and then library may be?
Seems like a very peculiar situation. Can you tell us more on it? Please? May be a screenshot?
Melifluous
12-04-2005, 19:24
Screenshot not possible right now.
I can remember that there is a Barracks and a Market in the city. (and Granary of course)
Also contains the Statue of Zeus! (obsolete of course).
So army and GS should be full strength before anything too serious comes near.
AFAIK there was only a single Med Inf anywhere near the city. I have also disbanded KR's Yraif Maps city south of Paris. It was empty at the time and I didnt wanna lose any gold.
Will post more later tonight but for now I go home.
Melifluous
Melifluous
13-04-2005, 12:45
PreTurn - Attack Paris!
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = 2hp promoted musket and retreat.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = Dead musket, GS 1hp.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = Dead musket, GS 1hp.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = 2hp promoted musket and dead GS.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = no damage to musket and retreat.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = Dead musket, GS 1hp.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = Dead musket, GS 2hp.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = Dead musket, GS 1hp.
Vet 4hp GS vs reg 3hp Musket = 1hp promoted and dead GS.
Vet 4hp GS vs vet 2hp Musket = dead musket and 3hp promoted GS.
Vet 4hp GS vs vet 2hp Musket = dead musket and 2hp GS.
Vet 4hp GS vs vet 2hp Musket = 2hp musket and retreat.
Elite 5hp GS vs vet 2hp Musket = Dead musket, 1hp Elite GS and A GREAT LEADER!! W00t!!1!!ONE! Renamed unit Les Rosbiff!
Damn still reveals an AC and we are almost outta troops, a single 1hp Elite GS.
Who dies instantly, will have to wait til next turn and see what they manage to get in there.
Move leader back to an empty Yraif Maps. Damn just got the name [lol] Better if you could spell it ;)
Create the army and move it back under the cover of 2 and 3 hp GS's. Will make an army from the survivors and see how we do.
Abandon Yraif Maps. I dont wanna lose the gold from it being sacked.
Sell Spices, Silks, Wool and 11gpt to Ragnar for Printing Press.
Whip the utter crap out of Leptis Magna. Goes from size 5 to size 1 to rush a library. Short rush pike -> longbow -> granary -> library.
IT - French reinforce Paris with a single Knight it seems.
Turn 01 - 810AD - Load the best units into the army near paris and create a 7hp army :/ Attack the magically appearing vet Musket.
7hp army GS vs vet 4hp musket = 1hp army and dead musket. [saiyan]
All out assault on Paris continues.
1hp GS attack and die in waves. Eventually we kill the remaining AC and Knight and in an Heroic last gasp attack the 1hp army kills the 2hp AC at last and slaughtering a Great Leader for the French we take Paris with our army! We also have 1 more GS on 1hp, Les Rosbiff!!. W00t. Paris also has the Statue of Zeus! Size 8 with 3 resistors. We must keep the city! Also has a barracks and Marketplace, but no connection to our lands. :(
Can we keep it? 4 turns of Alliance with the US until we can make peace with the French. Granaries are online across the lands, the people rejoice. People worry that the Pyramids found in Paris seem to be comprised of 666 panes of glass and appear completely out of place amongst the stately buildings surrounding it, but apparently its 'art'.
Settle some cities. Check rush builds.
IT - French counter attack is exactly nothing. Weird huh? Not even moving a unit into sight of Paris.
Turn 02 - 820AD - Not much to report, move some troops nearer some remaining Indian cities. Check rush builds and food status. Paris has a flip chance of 1.317 to 3.459, I take a chance and leave the units that are currently in Paris in Paris. Hopefully resistors will be quelled next turn and then I can rush a temple there quickly hopefully killing the flip chance. Annoying thing about the Pyramids is that it has take the 60 shield short rush granary option out of the equation [mad]. There is only the harbour option left in some coastal cities when trying to rush libraries.
IT - Paris doesn't flip. All units in it healed fully, resistance ends.
Turn 03 - 830AD - Rush temple in Paris. Will keep troops in for one more turn. Take Dacca from the Indians with a nice 14hp army of GS. Start the temple shite. organise a ROP with the friendly vikings, just to keep them onside. They have Cavs [:O] Wander through their lands towards the Indian Capital.
IT - Babs complete the Sistine Chapel. A damaged Med Inf from France wanders into view near Paris. I think the French are seriously screwed somewhere. Notice that the city dead north of Paris is Viking. [fdevil]
Turn 04 - 840AD - Pretty quiet this turn. Road on Saltpetre completes allowing short-rushing via the 60 shield Muskets. Whip the utter crap out of most of the empire. Alliance with the Americans runs out next turn. Should be funny from now on. Short rushing various bits in Paris brings the pop back down to 1 and we are half way towards a library there.
IT - Not much going on apart from the fact the US move 2 Med Inf and a knight next to Paris... Hmm...
Turn 05 - 850AD - Colville completes University and has no more culture buildings to build. Start Knight, mobile shields for disbanding. Rush more stuff, have a good look around and make sure that all cities that can are doing at least +2fpt. And that about covers it, I'll leave it at 5 turns here. These things take a while huh?
So it's just whipping and stuff. Every turn. No real attempt to get any more territory by war this turn.
Will leave it for anarres and see if he can make some money/get our research going again.
Laters
Melifluous
Pastorius
13-04-2005, 12:53
Lots of turnlogs, but little screenshots.
Mel, I wanna see action pics :D[:p]
Melifluous
13-04-2005, 13:04
I know you do, but I dont post those kinda pics on public forums [groucho]
But I will get to posting some maps of the mighty Celtic Empire!
Bit later though...
Melifluous
Seems like a great progress around Paris. We can still try to finish second if going full speed for culture and hold onto Paris. Seems no way we can beat Offa, at least very unlikely. Apparently, they got Pyramids earlier and also seems like they have more cities as well. We should be able to beat all other teams and hopefully the jeffelammar team.
Anarres is due to rule on the Celtic throne.
Melifluous
13-04-2005, 13:56
Currently running at about +775 culture per turn with only 77000 culture to go!
At the current rate will complete in 100turns
Of course temples, libraries and cathedrals are being rushed every turn so this will only get quicker.
Melifluous
Hmm, it may be tough for me to take this before the weekend. If anyone can go before Sat please do so!
Seems nobody will jump in. But please, do not forget to play over the weekend. With military phase over, it should be easier and less time-consuming.
http://home.planet.nl/~dijk8021/logo_club_12.jpg
Melifluous
14-04-2005, 00:31
[smirk]
Melifluous
Just to remind Anarres that he is UP. ;)
Anarres, please play the game!
Am playing, will finish and post tomorrow. :)
I won't give details of building cities anymore, but we went from 212 to 227 in my turns. There is almost nothing to report, but every turn I rush many many many many many cities, and use mapstat to assign the 20 or 30 cities that have grown that turn to the correct tiles.
Preturn (850AD):
Culture: 22025 - 788 culture per turn
City count: 212
Land: 47%
Pop: 47%
Cancel our MA with America against France.
AI: Lots of AI armies moving about, I think it's fair to say France's days are numbered...
Turn 3 (880AD):
Vikings have Astronomy now, although it's out of our league to buy. Still they are the only civ with Military Tradition.
Turn 4 (890AD):
Tours seems to be the prize everybody wants. I take the last 2 defenders with our army - we need this city to ensure an unbroken trade route to Paris.
AI: China and America sign MA against France.
Turn 5 (900AD):
A second city is founded on the coast near Paris, not sure we need any more but it seemed a reasonable thing to do.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/20054180512_900AD_Tours.jpg
103.94KB
Culture: 26314 - 965 culture per turn
City count: 227
Land: 48%
Pop: 50%
In summary, it's getting pretty routine now every turn:
- move workers
- use F1 and sort by building type to rush and part-rush culture buildings
- use mapstat to assign cities that have grown to use high food tiles
- use mapstat to check for trades (yeah, right!)
Trade is non-existant, although we can make peace with France now our costal cities near Paris are secured.
In regards to research I really think we need to get to Rails asap. If we can somehow get Astronomy (in the next 10 turns) via trade we still need to research 3 MA techs and 1 IA tech. At 100% science it costs us 453 gpt and we currently have only 3000 gold in the bank, so we have very roughly another 5 turns before we must make a decision to start research.
Once we get rails food will shoot up as irrigated and railed grasslands will give 3 food, so I guess it really should be the immediate goal.
Trying to get to rails seems a great idea. And great progress with essentially securing Paris!!
Col is UP.
@Col: Can you play? The sooner the better, many teams have already finished this one.
I can play Tues evening. Tied up until then.
Sounds great, should be much easier with military phase over. :)
The turns are very quick if you use mapstat.
If you don't I have no idea how you can assign new citizens from newly grown cities each turn, unless you cycle through 227 cities (I actually did the full cycle twice: at the start and end of my turns). Also some cities have to use 1 food tile when they grow - often these are prime candidates for partial rushing. In some cases I rushed down to 1 pop and got 60 out of 80 shields done, so several size 1 cities will grow in the next 5 turns and will need to be whipped up to 80 shields.
The +5fpt cities (wherever you have a river and a +2 food tile) are actually best growing to size 3 to 5 (if there are enough 2fpt tiles to support it) and then mass-rushed to 80 or more shields. This works better because you only lose the few shields from rounding once (in sharp contrast to the cities with only 1 2fpt tile, which need to be rushed every time they grow and use a 1fpt tile).
Another note on ICS: If you can build cities 2 tiles apart then do so!!! Don't build ANY cities 3 from another unless it is impossible due to terrain/other cities.. I mean, it sounds obvious but there is some really silly city placement 3 tiles from each other, like with 5 clear tiles between 2 cities and a pattern: xooxoox instead of xoxoxox. :)
I'll download Mapstat then. How does it show newly grown cities?
Darkness
18-04-2005, 16:00
quote:Originally posted by col
I'll download Mapstat then. How does it show newly grown cities?
It displays the current citysize of all cities.
If a city has grown this turn, the old citysize is displayed between brackets behind the new citysize...
They are marked, it is easy to spot, you'll see. The worst part is finding this city on the map. I usually use Ctrl-Shift-L to locate them one-by-one.
Melifluous
18-04-2005, 16:18
These cities are marked in pink.
Nice :)
Melifluous
quote:Originally posted by akots
They are marked, it is easy to spot, you'll see. The worst part is finding this city on the map. I usually use Ctrl-Shift-L to locate them one-by-one.
Actually you can do it much quicker now! Just right-click the city in mapstat and choose Jump To City (ctrl-J). :)
Did not know about that. Is this a new version feature?
Dunno, but I downloaded the latest version for this game (as I had not used it for some time).
Melifluous
19-04-2005, 11:13
There is also a more recent version just out. Version 2.10.0.
I hadn't realised there were any right click options in this [blush]
Nice One anarres. This tool is fast becoming an essential for my gameplay.
Melifluous
Ok here we go. Fire up Mapstat and load the save into it. Lets av a butchers before we start to
play.
Hm - only 101 tiles from the dom limit. We now have 63.1%. Gonna have to be careful not to
trigger domination and keep a close eye on this. Hm. Hm. Quite few cities due to expand this
turn and a lot in this next 5 turns.
I'm guessing green happiness means wltk days and yellow is neutral. No reds.
Trading:Scandinavia has a couple of techs.
Flipping:nothing over 0,2% - obviously not much of a concern on a culture run.
We seem to have a lot of lux and resources unconnected.
Ok load the save and have a look. Turn the grid back on ;) Hmm - doesnt the Pentagon generate culture - 1 per turn? Why arent we building it? No settlers anywhere?? Have we reached the city limit? Nope.
Ah - habeamus papum. Break off to watch the news.
Melifluous
19-04-2005, 18:52
Dude?
Mapstat will (IIRC) show you the number of tiles away from Dom Limit you are based on visible tiles!!!
Use the F8 to get a better idea of approaching dom limit, IIRC we are < 50% land atm.
Its cool though.
Melifluous
Ah - hm - what use is that then?
Melifluous
19-04-2005, 19:26
Dunno - ask me one about Sport.
If you check the other bit (territory tab) rather than that bit (terrain tab) or vicky versa.
Whatever.
It's use is obvious you old goat, now stop prevaricating (you'll go blind!) and play tha damned turns [:p]
Melifluous
Gotta go and download, have a bath, mark some tosspot practical work. Get round to it later tonight. Prob about 10....
bed_head7
20-04-2005, 02:44
In mapstat, green simply means more happy than unhappy, not WLTKD. It doesn't tell tiles away from domination for the whole map because that would be spoiler information.
And I thought masturbation, not prevarication, was supposed to cause blindness?
It's 10 pm US Central. Hopefully, col is OK, just got distracted. But I'm really worried with all these wishes around and prevarication thing. [confused]
The reason mapstat gives you land as a %'ge of visible is that in PTW you can't get the #tiles any other way. Only in C3C does it give this extra info on F8.
Ok here we go. Fire up Mapstat and load the save into it. Lets av a butchers before we start to
play.
Hm - only 101 tiles from the dom limit. We now have 63.1%. Gonna have to be careful not to
trigger domination and keep a close eye on this. Hm. Hm. Quite few cities due to expand this
turn and a lot in this next 5 turns.
I'm guessing green happiness means wltk days and yellow is neutral. No reds. Still not sure how
I can tell which cities have just grown to readjust tiles!!
Jump to city doesnt seem to work - always goes to capital!
Trading:Scandinavia has a couple of techs.
Flipping:nothing over 0,2% - obviously not much of a concern on a culture run.
We seem to have a lot of lux and resources unconnected.
Ok load the save and have alook. Turn the grid back on ;) Hmm - doesnt the Pentagon generate
culture - 1 per turn? Why arent we building it? No settlers anywhere?? Have we reached the city
limit?
Ah - habeamus papum. Break off to watch the news.
Ok here we go. Nothing to do now but press space
1)910AD.
Vikings start Copernicus. Nothing much else to report. Chop where can. Whip where can.
2)920AD Chop and whip.
3)930AD Ditto
4)940AD Ditto
5)950ad ditto
Ok - - sorry about the slight delay.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/colsmap.JPG
quote:Originally posted by col
1)910AD.
Chop where can. Whip where can.
2)920AD Chop and whip.
3)930AD Ditto
4)940AD Ditto
5)950ad ditto
Somehow I think these chops, whips and dittos took about 45 minutes apiece [lol]
Got that, wil play shortly, may be even today at night.
Melifluous
20-04-2005, 19:21
quote:Originally posted by akots
... today at night.
In English this would be
This evening
Melifluous [:p]
Well, I'm no way near England. Houstonian cowboyish would be "at night". ;)
They actually have a rather peculiar language here sometimes.
Played the first turn. To tell the truth, I'm barely able to stay awake through all this routine. Many buildings rushed and many settlers rushed, and it is all nauseous even with MapStat. BTW, my version jumps which is a great help. It takes time, so will try to finish tomorrow. We are at 32.2K culture, may be we can catch up with team jeffelammar but no way we catch up with team Offa. otherwise, a very boring game. May be I'll stir a war with China once their jungle cities grow a bit.
Mad-bax is right about your avatar Akots: it's quite hypnotic. I have had fun reading your thread, and while I think it a pity you couldn't put it all on CFC, I can appreciate that your robust posting approach might not sit easily there. The appearance of your renegade outfit has livened up the sgotm.
Somehow I had missed SirPleb musing about probabilities, so thanks for raising that issue. Personally I think attempts to detect underhand activity are worthy but futile, as a 4000bc reload is essentially undetectable, and for a strong player would be extremely powerful.
You mean the Randy story in GOTM39 apparently. Seems the whole ordeal has been quietly buried by the GOTM staff which is certainly the great thing to do.
OK, finished playing the sucker. I mean my turns, not the whole game. We have lots of cities and lots of culture. I actually played 10 turns, took about 7 or 8 hours. First, check with MapStat all cities which grew and whip accordingly. Second, check and whip all cities on F1 screen sorted by build. I whipped starting from 16 shields up to 20 depending on surroundings and available food. Also, many cities started on Universities. It is possible to build quite a few with proper mictomanagement. Just need to grwo a city to size 6 and whip 100 shields first. Then add knights to disband and while the city grows, whip the rest. It takes time though but still better than colliseums.
We also losing gold, about 50 gpt, due to our high cultural pride. There is about 3K in the bank, more than enough to finish the game, no big deal. But we cannot research. May be we can pull some tech deal but I just don't see a desperate need for it. Many cities have been whipped to the edge and happiness is becoming a problem, I got a few riots in the interturns.
We passed jeffelammar in score and certainly can pass in culture however seems a rathe close race there. Offa's team has apparently already won the game around 1150AD or so, their last save is at 1050AD with about 75K culture. If they make around 2K cpt, they could have finished 1150AD.
We are at 43131 cp making 1308 cpt. Not bad at all, will finish in about 30 turns maximum if building more settlers and disband most of the units. Not that we are running low on land, it is this jungle I was struggling to settle. And Universities cannot be built in huge numbers all over the place just because knights are needed there to be disbanded. It might be worth building a few colliseums instead of universities but then we may run out of support money and they are not worth the hassle, only 2cpt.
One of Iro cities flipped to us:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200542311117_SGOTM6-980AD.JPG
114.49KB
And India had been killed:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2005423111143_SGOTM6-1030AD.JPG
129.14KB
Otherwise, pretty uneventful set of turns. We can flip a few more cities. Also, started settling suburbs of Paris a bit. There are some food bonuses around there.
Kingreno is UP then.
I hate cultural games and milking games, and in most cases Spae race games, it is just a big waste of time especially on the larger than standard map. Why not go and kill the bad guys and forget about it.
Kingreno
23-04-2005, 20:02
Ok, short "in between" update. Played 5 turns and will do anotehr 5 since I have the time this evening, and I think I can manage better in 10 turns then i can in 5.:)
First thing I did was see where we can make more money. If we are going to build more culture we need more money for upkeep! Or....we can just forget about that and lose a random worker and building every turn. Is that allowed?
How bad is the economy? Well, at 100% tax we lose 174 gpt now, increasing with 20 gpt per turn. The AI has no money ATM so I started....selling non cultural improvements! I SOLD all Baracks, for 30 gpt and a one time 150 gold. We will not be going to war anyway. I also sold several harbours that were not vital to their cities.
Diplo: disbanding mili means we do NOT want a war, especially not with the Vikings...I gift them 2 luxes (seperately of course) so they turn Polite. I beg it helps. I also buy our 9th lux from england for metallurgy, 2 luxes and a little cash. This repays as several cities can now ditch Elvis.
Though some are still rather sad with our harsh rule:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200542320033_1050whips.jpg
12.67KB
In trading i also obtained:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200542320116_worldmap.jpg
11.61KB
Culture:
I whipp like a madman and we have 50516 Culture with 1593 cpt.
Will play more turns later this evening.[thumbsup]
Seems like a great progress! We can try to hire tax collectors in a few cities in the areas which are done with Cathedrals. Whipping a University is a big deal, need a somewhat larger city for that. So, some ICS tiles might be redistributed and those cities which are left on a low calory diet can go hunt for taxes.
But the map is huge, it is like 30-35% water on 130x100 map which makes it actually equal in land size to something in between large and huge map with 70% water.
Kingreno
24-04-2005, 10:10
Played till 1150 AD!
Culture now 59k and rising aprox 1.7k per turn. we should get towards 2k soon.
Things to do:
If we want this to be done as soon as we can there are several things we need to agree on. First, the order of building should be temple-cathedral-library. happiness is a problem even with 9 luxes...
Then there is the University- or colosseum-problem. Well, this game is over in 30 turns or so, so if you see No way to get the University in say 20 turns, switch to Colosseum, if that is not possible either switch to military units for Disbanding! Remember to whipp these as well, happiness in cities that are no longer on culture duty is not that important. Those shields produced by disbanding may help that University in another town.
My guess is that roughly a third of the cities nowproducting colli/Uni should be switched to mili. I will let the next player do this.
Whipping; remember to whipp when growth is higher if the city is smaller!! you can whipp to walls (20shields), setler (30), MI (40), Aquaduct (50), Musket (60), Knight (70), Courthouse (80), Market (100), then switch again to the colosseum/Uni.
Happiness: still okay though the floodplain cities cry for a new leader. [lol]
Melifluous
25-04-2005, 03:13
OK I got it.
Nice work KR [goodjob]
Melifluous
Melifluous
28-04-2005, 11:48
OK Sorry about this.
Uploaded the save last night. Only played 5 turns.
Turnlog as follows.
Preturn - Eek. -245gpt and 1890 in the bank [crazyeye]. Look around but KR did a great job before sending on the save. Nothing left but to hit return ;)
Turn 01 - 1160AD - OK So I do a little maths and work out that at +1895cpt we make 100,000 in 21 turns, ie 1370AD. We need culture now and there will not be time to build most of the Unis ordered. Switch all that can to Colosseums and whip everything REALLY hard. Some cities go from size 6 to size 1! Should be a few buildings completed next turn ;)
Turn 02 - 1170AD - 19 Colosseums and 3 Cathedrals complete. W00t. Continue my systematic raping of population.
Turn 03 - 1180AD - Colosseums - 4 Cathedrals - 11 Temples - 1. Whip anyone? 64621 culture.
IT - Babs complete Bachs.
Turn 04 - 1190AD - Colosseums - 5 Cathedrals - 7 Temples - 2. Whippet... 66565 = +1944cpt :)
Turn 05 - 1200AD - Colosseums - 3 Cathedrals - 2 Libraries - 1 Unis - 1. 68534 = +1969cpt ;) Gandasetaigon flips from the chinese to us. Disband the free spear it gets and start on temple.
And thats it.
Have fun guys. Projected win date = 1360AD.
Melifluous
PS. anarres is up!
Melifluous
28-04-2005, 22:46
[bump]
Melifluous
Melifluous
28-04-2005, 23:12
Well I posted some pictures at CFC and not here [mischief]
Melifluous
My PC died at home last night.
It just started rebooting after being on for a while - a classic sigh of CPU overheating. [sad]
Will try, but can't guarentee to get it fixed real soon, so you better skip me until it is fixed.
Load the save and have a look round.
We are runninga huge deficit! - 391gp and only 285 in the kitty! Oops. No-one has any gold and we are running 0.0.10. Hmm. Time to disband stuff?? Only 70 units left so not much scope there.
Looks like we need to build wealth or risk culture buildings being sold.
Lets see if we have any none culture buildings we can flog off. Hmm - all rax gone - and I only found a couple of granaries thjat can go. Sold a couple of courthouses in cities that already totally corrupt.
Looks like we just bite on this one. Sold our map around and lux to extract all AI cash. Enough for this turn...Turn to wealth.Cant build and disband enough now.
1. 1210AD Someone has been whipping real hard. Several cathedrals finish. Nothing to whip.
2. 1220AD We are 400 in the red - a temple goes. Manage to whip one temple. Merge workers back to save dosh.
3. 1230AD Another temple goes...
4. 1240ad Still losing moeny hand over fist. Culture on 76.5k
5. 1250AD Lose a temple - gain 3 cathedrals. Culture 78.5k.
6. 1255AD The Vikings declare on us now our army is largely gone and grab New Entremont 2. Shit thats close to Paris and Pyramids. Buy in the English to deflect them. Culture 80.5k. At 2k at turn we have about 10 turns to go come what may.
7. 1260AD Zerks take a one square island from us. Culture 82.5k
8. 1265AD Viking cavs are hunting us down like dogs. Culture 84.5k
9. 1270AD Another city falls to vikings. Culture 86.5k
10.1275AD Sodding Vikings - at last some English knights appear to do battle. Culture 88.5k
6 turns to go. Who wants to finish this baby??
Well, we had more than enough unit support, so disbanding anything was not required apparently. It also could have been possible to hire some tax collectors in cities which had already built everything and have some extra food? And seems that we should try to make peace with the Vikings ASAP. Indeed, it is not that important for the global picture and seems we are doing OK.
Might be better if Anarres can play.
@Anarres: Please play and lets finish this long game.
We had rushed so much our income dropped substantially and we needed entertainers to prevent rioting. I dont think the Vikings can do any damage now.
Kingreno
03-05-2005, 23:03
It is not good the Vikes are atw ar with us, and we don't need to disband more units! Unit support is 0. As for the temples, who cares? one temple a turn is easily gained back.
Not really - everywhere is whipped down to the bone. Our pop has plummeted. Our income has plummeted. Fortunately we have only 11.5k to go and we are pulling 2k per turn. The Vikings can only take heavily corrupt cities - and some may even flip back. The AI has ignored several empty cities already though.
Hmm - now the SGOTM staff are saying we cant run into the red. I cant find this anywhere in the rules.....
Melifluous
04-05-2005, 00:49
Let's not over-react here.
Let's see if Ainwood can come up with something reasonable first ;)
Melifluous
Well, according to GOTM rules, you cannot run deficit. That is red indeed.
Hmm - it was perfectly possible to have balanced the economy with tax collectors and wealth but nothing in the GOTM rules said we couldnt run deficit; I checked.
Ok - I've finished this one off.
Load the save.
Set everything to Wealth. Now about 90 gpt down. .
Tax increases all round.
Improved services for all with 70 tax collectors and we are now running at a profit.
Culture at 88594. Press return
1. 1280ad The Brits retake a city from the nastly vikings. We are noe +12 gpt. Culture is 90598
2. 1285ad The Brit city flips to us. The vikings commit unspeakable atrocities on our army with their cavalry. Wea re at +20 gpt. Culture is 92602
3. 1290AD. Vikings burn a jungle city then head for home. +17 gpt. Culture is 94604
4. 1295AD Vikings make peace with English.- and with us. +21gpt Culture is 96606
5. 1300aD +21GPT culture is 98608.
6. 1305 We win by culture. 113 hours, 55 minutes and 21 seconds..... Save game. Upload.
Good game, finally finished!
Thanks everyone for playing it!
We are solid second which is absolutely not bad at all!
Melifluous
04-05-2005, 19:08
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
First thing I did was see where we can make more money. If we are going to build more culture we need more money for upkeep! Or....we can just forget about that and lose a random worker and building every turn. Is that allowed?
How bad is the economy? Well, at 100% tax we lose 174 gpt now, increasing with 20 gpt per turn. The AI has no money ATM so I started....selling non cultural improvements! I SOLD all Baracks, for 30 gpt and a one time 150 gold. We will not be going to war anyway. I also sold several harbours that were not vital to their cities.
This was the first indication that the money was gonna be an issue.
I did nothing to rectify the situation as I saw no way of getting around it.
Sorry Col if I passed you the shitty end of the stick ;)
Good game all.
SGOTM7??
Melifluous
I have browsed through the Offa's thread already. Did not yet have a chance to look through Jeffelammar's team log though.
Indeed, we were beaten by a rather close margin. And certainly, we could have been first in this game, a matter of few issues which otherwise might seem not so important.
A few conclusions:
1) We waited way too long to build FP before starting assault on China. That was a very bad move. The benefit from FP was relatively small and did not help us in the long run. Certainly, we managed to gain some production and gold but it was a very minor thing. Location of FP was rather good indeed. Thus, we lost 10 turns early in the game and this moved our finish date probably 15 or 20 turns forward which makes for a difference with team Offa. Some are being too greedy and too attached to the multiplayer style. With AI, it is better to be a bit foolhardy. Well, I'm suffering from this as well since I cannot get a good COTM result recently while doing rather well with GOTMs.
2) Optimal handling of settler factories would have enabled us to do better. Actually, IMHO, we did better in the beginning. And much better. Seems like they have built capital in the wrong place whereas we did it right and expanded almost optimally.
3) They went straight for Babylon to get the Pyramids and did not attack Mongols and Carthage. France finishing the Pyramids made our life a bit more complicated. We were certainly able to get there sooner and wasted about 10 turns. Also, we were idling some 15+ settler for about 10 turns which did not do us any good as well. It was due to confusion, might do some work on improving the understanding of each others intentions.
4) There is really very few important things that were screwed. Certainly, Japan should have been attacked before Mongols. By the time we got there, they had pikes and were really pain in the ass to handle. While Mongols stayed backwards and had a poor terrain.
5) Carthage was actualy a rather good piece of land to grab but it was possible to wait with it because they would not have had better defenders with Feudalism.
6) Seems that Indian/Iro jungle was a major pain for all teams.
7) Even thinking and discussing about ToA was a bad idea. We did not need it and the benefit was very insubstantial for the whole game.
8) Need to grasp the general picture better and discuss more global issues.
9) Team Offa will be split for the next SGOTM. Long overdue imo. They are too strong.
These are my impressions, nothing more than that.
Strategically, looking back, I think we waited too long before attacking, that we overcommitted forces west and should have split our army. We had enough to have attcked Japan earlier. I usually attack too early and run out of steam but I felt this time we actually had a larger army than we needed although this was only apparent too late.
The position of thePyramids was critical in a whipping game. If it all came down to 10 or so turns then its easy in hindsight to see where we might have been faster - but given the variety of styles and playing strengths on the team, and that it was our first attempt at an SG, we didnt do too shabbily.
Thanks everyone.
jeffelammar
05-05-2005, 02:40
Very nicely done.
The Pyramids were key... I think we could have beat you by a ways if we had taken them.
Like you guys, our team is certain that they could have done quite a bit better. I kind of hope for another game like this one to try out what we learned here.
For Anarres: Seems that after the final result is declared, it is quite possible to post an announcement on the front page. Second place is not bad, absolutely!
Congrats Team CDZ Team! 2nd place is awesome accomplishment! Offa was stacked and won 4 straight. They will likely be loaded again since Northern Pike just recruited Handy. I say you guys are the team to beat. Though Team Jeffelammar will look to shock the world again! [:p]
Jeff is right we screwed up the pyramids pretty bad. Personally I didn't learn how to rush a pop 5 for 80 shields till the end so that prolly extended our time by a couple turns too. :(
I am a much better warrior than culture maker so hopefully I will make an impact this time.
In retrospect I think it should have been a straight deity game on a smaller map. Originally this was the case with it set up as Babylon on a standard 5000 tile board. Unfortunately there was too much variation in where the pyramids went and it would have been a lottery. Also Babylon deity games have been played before.
It was interesting to see how many teams were within a few turns of the "Jason best" date. Considering the entire game was played in despotism (with the tile penalty) it does lead me to wonder whether whipping is actually more efficient than cash rushing.
I am in a little difficulty now as to what to suggest for future games. It appears that 100K games are tedious, and also AW games too. Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Whipping is efficient when there are many cities and lots of land. And Pyramids. And strong UU with cheaper than usual upgrade for C3C.
OCC is not tedious... Or 5CC. 300CC as it was here indeed cannot be played without MapStat. Not by more or less sane players.
Since it is SGOTM, you are essentially restricted to GOTM. But there were very peculiar medal series games which were never processed by AlanH. Like Babylon with Conquest victory, Persia with 100K, and Iro with conquest as well iirc all Deity level. The Balylonian game would have been rather hard and interesting especially remembering early encounter with Rome and lack of iron. Iro was also rather challenging while Persia was mostly limited to FP/Palace jumps all over the map. GOTM30 was a very sound setup as well. May be adding some condition like not building or capturing any cities not on home island?
Not that I know anything like akots but what about a Semi-OCC on arch?
OCC on that island but any other island is open tp settle.
This way naval operations come into play. Something we see very rarely in games.
Melifluous
06-05-2005, 23:16
How about a no-worker game :)
I like Whomps Arch-Semi-OCC thingy.
Or a game totally without iron or horses.
No lux games.
Despot Celts was cool. I whip a lot more in my SP games now.
200+ cities sucked monkey-nuts [:P]
Melifluous
Whoa Meli! No workers. Smoke and his javelin throwers? What a mess that would be! Love it.
You could also freak all the engineers out by doing a automated worker variant. I'm going to start one tomorrow on CFC. [lol]
quote:Originally posted by Whomp
Not that I know anything like akots but what about a Semi-OCC on arch?
OCC on that island but any other island is open tp settle.I like a different arch variant - you can only settle the starting island.
It means you can make it as easy or as hard as you want by variying the size of the starting island. It also means you have to send huge navys out and I guess could lead to some very interesting city placements. ICS placement restrictions (if they exist) should of course be lifted for this game.
grahamiam
07-05-2005, 03:47
quote:Originally posted by Whomp
You could also freak all the engineers out by doing a automated worker variant. I'm going to start one tomorrow on CFC. [lol]
hey! i resemble that remark ;) actually, gozpel hosted a couple of those, and they are not too bad. as killer probably remembers, we won a DG game quite easily. imho, you should automate workers and turn on city govenors. that should drive people crazy [lol]
as far as sgotm varients, i think anarres hit the island nation thing right on the head. it would be very interesting to do a naval type game that way, especially with the English and all those free MoW's. Whatever it is, as sgotm3 proved, the rules need to be simple and clear. Arathorn's varient thread is also a good source of ideas as his are well defined.
oh yeah, congrats on an impressive finish [goodjob] the last few turns of this one really burnt me out, especially since we were down to 3 players at that point.
Kingreno
07-05-2005, 09:50
I had an awesome game once where the limitation was I could not construct a single building. That made for some fun and different play. (make sure flips are ON!)
2nd place guys! Congratulatoins, very impressive. That sure deserves a message on the portal page.
quote:Originally posted by Whomp
... This way naval operations come into play. Something we see very rarely in games.
Fortunately. When I start to think about ship chaining, I feel dizzy and seasick. It is as bad as 300 cities. Fortunately, does not last that long, 30-40 turn maximum. The trick is to have enough ships and enough troops of course as well.
Gyathaar
07-05-2005, 11:38
Interesting read.. finally read though it all today :)
I didnt see this one addressed:
quote:Originally posted by col
I can tell which cities have just grown to readjust tiles!!
Jump to city doesnt seem to work - always goes to capital!
When this happens.. just press num-lock, and it should work properly :)
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.