***SPOILER*** CrocodilePBEM

digger760 · 10-07-2003, 11:16

this is another PBEM i have just started between

Crocodile (from CFC) playing Carthage
Black Waltz (from CFC) playing China
Sir Eric (from CFC, but recently joind CDZ)playing Bablonians
digger760 (me) France

settings are large map, monarch, 4 AI opponents, i forget the rest.

We only started this game last week and have got to 3300BC already, we seem to be able to get 2-4 turns a day due to a freak collision of availible times to play.

WARNING IF YOU GO BY THE NAME OF CROCODILE, SIR ERIC or BLACK WALTZ PLEASE DONT READ ANY FURTHER.

digger760 · 10-07-2003, 11:20

here is the situation at 3300BC

74.28KB

Paris is going to grow next turn and most likely throw out an angry bastard citizen. In the past i have used the extra citizen as an entertainer, but i think i'd be better to use the lux slider. until the settler arrives.

anarres · 10-07-2003, 11:46

digger, always use the lux slider in the early game.

Even when you have 3 or 4 cities and only your capital needs the lux it nearly always makes sense to use the slider rather then have entertainers (the gold is not the critical thing here, but the food and production).

A shit start position, but a 4 turn settler factory possible for city #2. Personally I wouldn't bother with a granary in the capital, at least not until it's produced a settler and a few workers. The second city will need land working quick to get it in to 4-turn settler mode, and a partially rushed Granary. You may even want to think about a very ealy FP in city #3 (past the settler factory) and a later palace jump (done using the formula so you can place it exactly where you want).

digger760 · 10-07-2003, 12:38

i am curious about this palace jump thing that people have talked about, can you refer me to a thread that explains it more.

anarres · 10-07-2003, 13:23

Here it is:

Free Palace Jump by DaveMcW.

I must admit that in SP games I consider this an exploit and don't do it. In PBEM games there hasn't been a decent opportunity for me to try it, so it is theoretical (for me at least). Having said that, I would definitely use it in this situation: your capital is *very* poorly positioned at the end of a peninsula, totally useless for corruption purposes.

digger760 · 10-07-2003, 14:04

well it looks like an exploit, so i'll have to check with the other players. Otherwise i'll have to build one from scratch somewhere else.

anarres · 10-07-2003, 15:06

digger, in my eyes there are no 'playstyle' exploits in PBEM that use the game mechanics. The only exploits in PBEM in my eyes are the 'cheating' exploits (bugs in the game mechanics).

digger760 · 10-07-2003, 15:50

well word has arrived from our playmaster "Crocodile" that all the expolits listed under http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3cheats.shtml will not be allowed, except for the coastal blocking but that will be damn hard considering we are playing continents.

Even though i have to build the palace brick by brick now, I prefer to play the game the way it was intended, and its makes it more of a challenge.

anarres · 10-07-2003, 18:22

Hmm, interesting list.

RoP abuse - 100% impossible to do against a human, and also open to interpretation as to when it is abuse. Again, called an exploit because the AI can't do it and doesn't relate 10+ units outside every city as a sign of imminent attack, not because it 'cheats' the game in any way.

Free Palace Jump - Part of the game mechanics, called an exploit since the AI doesn't do it.

Ship Hopping - Employed by everyone I know when you really need to get the odd unit across a slightly too wide gap. Again, this is only called an exploit because of an AI that can't do it. It's not even game unbalancing agianst the AI.

ICS - 100% jusdgement call as to where a tight build ends and ICS begins. I am amazed this is banned as it only exploits AI stupidity.

So, the 'green list' exploits (not really exploits, but considered such because the AI can't use this part of the intended game functionality) seem a little harsh. I hope you didn't tell this person that you wanted to do the Palace Jump before asking them what was allowed.

I guess my opinion is that this is how the game was designed, and the AI was never able to use these strategies because the AI programmers are not able to work miracles and forsee all the useful strategies at design time.

Just my (very strong) opinion, I have had this conversation loads of times and it always amazes me what people consider an exploit, and more importantly why they still consider some things exploits in MP games. LOL @ RoP abuse and ICS, I look forward to heated arguments about when a 2 tile spacing between cities is an exploit and when it is a tight build, and at when you decide to suddenly attack someone and you happen to have 4 or 5 units moving through their territory to somewhere else. [

]

ERIKK · 10-07-2003, 18:41

Ship hopping!

never heard of it before...

10-07-2003, 11:16	#1
digger760 King Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Fake Dog Poo Factory. Posts: 1,887	*SPOILER* CrocodilePBEM this is another PBEM i have just started between Crocodile (from CFC) playing Carthage Black Waltz (from CFC) playing China Sir Eric (from CFC, but recently joind CDZ)playing Bablonians digger760 (me) France settings are large map, monarch, 4 AI opponents, i forget the rest. We only started this game last week and have got to 3300BC already, we seem to be able to get 2-4 turns a day due to a freak collision of availible times to play. WARNING IF YOU GO BY THE NAME OF CROCODILE, SIR ERIC or BLACK WALTZ PLEASE DONT READ ANY FURTHER.

10-07-2003, 13:23	#5
anarres anarchist butcher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States of Whatever. Posts: 4,677	Here it is: Free Palace Jump by DaveMcW. I must admit that in SP games I consider this an exploit and don't do it. In PBEM games there hasn't been a decent opportunity for me to try it, so it is theoretical (for me at least). Having said that, I would definitely use it in this situation: your capital is very poorly positioned at the end of a peninsula, totally useless for corruption purposes. __________________ <b>Calculate the probability of culture flips: Flip Calc</b>

10-07-2003, 15:06	#7
anarres anarchist butcher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States of Whatever. Posts: 4,677	digger, in my eyes there are no 'playstyle' exploits in PBEM that use the game mechanics. The only exploits in PBEM in my eyes are the 'cheating' exploits (bugs in the game mechanics). __________________ <b>Calculate the probability of culture flips: Flip Calc</b>

10-07-2003, 18:22	#9
anarres anarchist butcher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States of Whatever. Posts: 4,677	Hmm, interesting list. RoP abuse - 100% impossible to do against a human, and also open to interpretation as to when it is abuse. Again, called an exploit because the AI can't do it and doesn't relate 10+ units outside every city as a sign of imminent attack, not because it 'cheats' the game in any way. Free Palace Jump - Part of the game mechanics, called an exploit since the AI doesn't do it. Ship Hopping - Employed by everyone I know when you really need to get the odd unit across a slightly too wide gap. Again, this is only called an exploit because of an AI that can't do it. It's not even game unbalancing agianst the AI. ICS - 100% jusdgement call as to where a tight build ends and ICS begins. I am amazed this is banned as it only exploits AI stupidity. So, the 'green list' exploits (not really exploits, but considered such because the AI can't use this part of the intended game functionality) seem a little harsh. I hope you didn't tell this person that you wanted to do the Palace Jump before asking them what was allowed. I guess my opinion is that this is how the game was designed, and the AI was never able to use these strategies because the AI programmers are not able to work miracles and forsee all the useful strategies at design time. Just my (very strong) opinion, I have had this conversation loads of times and it always amazes me what people consider an exploit, and more importantly why they still consider some things exploits in MP games. LOL @ RoP abuse and ICS, I look forward to heated arguments about when a 2 tile spacing between cities is an exploit and when it is a tight build, and at when you decide to suddenly attack someone and you happen to have 4 or 5 units moving through their territory to somewhere else. [] __________________ <b>Calculate the probability of culture flips: Flip Calc</b>

10-07-2003, 11:20	#2
digger760 King Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Fake Dog Poo Factory. Posts: 1,887	here is the situation at 3300BC 74.28KB Paris is going to grow next turn and most likely throw out an angry bastard citizen. In the past i have used the extra citizen as an entertainer, but i think i'd be better to use the lux slider. until the settler arrives.

10-07-2003, 11:46	#3
anarres anarchist butcher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States of Whatever. Posts: 4,677	digger, always use the lux slider in the early game. Even when you have 3 or 4 cities and only your capital needs the lux it nearly always makes sense to use the slider rather then have entertainers (the gold is not the critical thing here, but the food and production). A shit start position, but a 4 turn settler factory possible for city #2. Personally I wouldn't bother with a granary in the capital, at least not until it's produced a settler and a few workers. The second city will need land working quick to get it in to 4-turn settler mode, and a partially rushed Granary. You may even want to think about a very ealy FP in city #3 (past the settler factory) and a later palace jump (done using the formula so you can place it exactly where you want). __________________ <b>Calculate the probability of culture flips: Flip Calc</b>

10-07-2003, 12:38	#4
digger760 King Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Fake Dog Poo Factory. Posts: 1,887	i am curious about this palace jump thing that people have talked about, can you refer me to a thread that explains it more.

10-07-2003, 14:04	#6
digger760 King Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Fake Dog Poo Factory. Posts: 1,887	well it looks like an exploit, so i'll have to check with the other players. Otherwise i'll have to build one from scratch somewhere else.

10-07-2003, 15:50	#8
digger760 King Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Fake Dog Poo Factory. Posts: 1,887	well word has arrived from our playmaster "Crocodile" that all the expolits listed under http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3cheats.shtml will not be allowed, except for the coastal blocking but that will be damn hard considering we are playing continents. Even though i have to build the palace brick by brick now, I prefer to play the game the way it was intended, and its makes it more of a challenge.

10-07-2003, 18:41	#10
ERIKK Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands!. Posts: 2,636	Ship hopping! never heard of it before...