the ethics of cheating....

DrAlimentado · 27-06-2005, 13:09

I've been playing with some webbrowser controls in .NET, seems to me that it would be pretty easy to code up a tool to hunt gold in KoC

It's strictly outlawed, the rules state that you cannot use any automated process to get information from the site. Some of the recruiters already break the letter of this law (they get army size info), but this would be much more blatantly illegal.

Anyway... I think I can make an app that loads a page of the battlefield (you log in) - parses the html for name/size/race/gold/rank/link info (stores info) and then loads the next page automatically. Probably with a timer so its not just pulling page after page too quick. You could set some paramaters (min size / min gold) and leave it hunting for 10 minutes - come back and you have an ordered list of targets you can click on to bring up their stats.

What do you think? If I made it then obviously I would make it available to CDZ-ers, but is it a step too far? It's illegal enough that it would have to be secret, ie. anyone caught using one would likely be banned from the game! (I think I can make it pretty undetectable - the only tell is maybe from the speed its pulling pages)

There is also a slim possibility I can make a one-shot autobuyer... Not sure if its possible (depends if they time out your session automatically even if you are refreshing the session, not tested yet) but if it is that would be an even more useful, and even more outrageous cheat.

So what do you guys reckon?

btw - I have no idea if it should make any difference to the ethical issues but you can be sure that there are 'farm scripts' used by some clans to hunt gold, not sure about one shot autobuyers but it is at least alluded to by some top-rank players in the KoC forums.

ProPain · 27-06-2005, 13:14

I;m all for it. Pretty sure other do this as well and I;m curious to the extend it's possible.

Banzai · 28-06-2005, 11:20

You know what pisses me off?

After searching for half an hour I find a target with:
- 6,2M gold
- Defense action of 22M
- Total Fighting Force of 627 men
Thats a good target!

I attack and steal 3,197,313 gold.
Thats only 50%

So... yes, I am all for it.

Shabbaman · 29-06-2005, 09:32

It's still cheating, isn't it? If you condone it here, why not condone it in, say, GOTM?

Pastorius · 29-06-2005, 09:40

Agree with Shabba.

DrAlimentado · 29-06-2005, 11:36

well I think there are degrees of cheating, its not a black and white issue.

All this utility would do is find targets that you can see the gold of. It dosent give you anything extra you couldnt get without it. We are not talking hacking the game or somesuch... we are not even subverting the game mechanics, just automating a tedious part of it.

And why is this cheating btw? because it is against the rules of course, but why is it against the rules... imo the anwser has more to do with economics than game mechanics

I might point out Shabba that you are probably a big cheater already. I do believe you use Ad-Block to supress the adverts, you will find that in so doing you are explicitly breaking the rules of KoC. So you do also condone cheating in the GOTM right? seems logical...

Shabbaman · 29-06-2005, 13:15

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by DrAlimentado

I might point out Shabba that you are probably a big cheater already. I do believe you use Ad-Block to supress the adverts, you will find that in so doing you are explicitly breaking the rules of KoC.

Is it? Very well, carry on then. If I'm cheating anyway, I might as well cheat in a way that I get at least some benefit from it

Matrix · 29-06-2005, 14:05

Not wanting to mix into the discussion (I don't play Kings of Chaos), but in "The early days of Scrooge McDuck" Scrooge went into a bar where his uncle was playing poker. He said it was considered an insult to your opponent if you didn't cheat.

Big bets...
"I got full house: aces, kings. Let your tears flow..."
"Wait a second, I also have a full house: aces, aces.

"

Beam · 29-06-2005, 15:17

I know at least one friend of mine who used to play KoC with 10 different accounts...

Pastorius · 29-06-2005, 19:34

Well fuck me sideways. I dont care anyway. I see your point more clearly now DrA. Makes sense...

27-06-2005, 13:09	#1
DrAlimentado Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the cookie jar. Posts: 1,568	the ethics of cheating.... I've been playing with some webbrowser controls in .NET, seems to me that it would be pretty easy to code up a tool to hunt gold in KoC It's strictly outlawed, the rules state that you cannot use any automated process to get information from the site. Some of the recruiters already break the letter of this law (they get army size info), but this would be much more blatantly illegal. Anyway... I think I can make an app that loads a page of the battlefield (you log in) - parses the html for name/size/race/gold/rank/link info (stores info) and then loads the next page automatically. Probably with a timer so its not just pulling page after page too quick. You could set some paramaters (min size / min gold) and leave it hunting for 10 minutes - come back and you have an ordered list of targets you can click on to bring up their stats. What do you think? If I made it then obviously I would make it available to CDZ-ers, but is it a step too far? It's illegal enough that it would have to be secret, ie. anyone caught using one would likely be banned from the game! (I think I can make it pretty undetectable - the only tell is maybe from the speed its pulling pages) There is also a slim possibility I can make a one-shot autobuyer... Not sure if its possible (depends if they time out your session automatically even if you are refreshing the session, not tested yet) but if it is that would be an even more useful, and even more outrageous cheat. So what do you guys reckon? btw - I have no idea if it should make any difference to the ethical issues but you can be sure that there are 'farm scripts' used by some clans to hunt gold, not sure about one shot autobuyers but it is at least alluded to by some top-rank players in the KoC forums. __________________ <font color=\"red\">sign up for the best game on the forum</font id=\"red\"> <font color=\"green\">My Army</font id=\"green\"> <font color=\"green\">Help my orcs to prosper</font id=\"green\"> MapTweaker Utility beta (copy/paste/resize biq files)

27-06-2005, 13:14	#2
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	I;m all for it. Pretty sure other do this as well and I;m curious to the extend it's possible. __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

28-06-2005, 11:20	#3
Banzai Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 1,226	You know what pisses me off? After searching for half an hour I find a target with: - 6,2M gold - Defense action of 22M - Total Fighting Force of 627 men Thats a good target! I attack and steal 3,197,313 gold. Thats only 50% So... yes, I am all for it. __________________ I see your face when I am dreaming. That\'s why I always wakeup screaming.

29-06-2005, 09:32	#4
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	It's still cheating, isn't it? If you condone it here, why not condone it in, say, GOTM? __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

29-06-2005, 09:40	#5
Pastorius Custard used tile Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Opening a can Posts: 3,158	Agree with Shabba. __________________

29-06-2005, 11:36	#6
DrAlimentado Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the cookie jar. Posts: 1,568	well I think there are degrees of cheating, its not a black and white issue. All this utility would do is find targets that you can see the gold of. It dosent give you anything extra you couldnt get without it. We are not talking hacking the game or somesuch... we are not even subverting the game mechanics, just automating a tedious part of it. And why is this cheating btw? because it is against the rules of course, but why is it against the rules... imo the anwser has more to do with economics than game mechanics I might point out Shabba that you are probably a big cheater already. I do believe you use Ad-Block to supress the adverts, you will find that in so doing you are explicitly breaking the rules of KoC. So you do also condone cheating in the GOTM right? seems logical... __________________ <font color=\"red\">sign up for the best game on the forum</font id=\"red\"> <font color=\"green\">My Army</font id=\"green\"> <font color=\"green\">Help my orcs to prosper</font id=\"green\"> MapTweaker Utility beta (copy/paste/resize biq files)

29-06-2005, 14:05	#8
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Not wanting to mix into the discussion (I don't play Kings of Chaos), but in "The early days of Scrooge McDuck" Scrooge went into a bar where his uncle was playing poker. He said it was considered an insult to your opponent if you didn't cheat. Big bets... "I got full house: aces, kings. Let your tears flow..." "Wait a second, I also have a full house: aces, aces. " __________________

29-06-2005, 15:17	#9
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	I know at least one friend of mine who used to play KoC with 10 different accounts... __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

29-06-2005, 19:34	#10
Pastorius Custard used tile Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Opening a can Posts: 3,158	Well fuck me sideways. I dont care anyway. I see your point more clearly now DrA. Makes sense... __________________