Meli Manglers Need Help

Melifluous · 10-01-2005, 14:31

OK Its finally come to this.

I am about to promote to the 5th division next season and would appreciate any help on my players.

I keep reading here and there that people are getting lots of money from trainees and I must confess to
A) Not really understanding how training works
b) Not really doing any training myself.

So this is how I stand.

TEAM LIST PULLED AS I HOPE TO GET A COUPLE OF PLAYERS FROM MY NEW LEAGUE INTERESTED IN OUR CUP AND DONT WANT TO SHOW THEM MY TEAM [

]

I have £70,000 and should get at least another £100,000 from this Sundays home match.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Melifluous

Dell19 · 10-01-2005, 14:48

The Platypus guide at www.Hottrick.org should have plenty of stuff on training

You should never train general as the benefits are limited whilst the training level should be 100% and you need at least a passable training coach.

The important facters that influence the speed of training is the training ability of the coach, the age of the players and the training type.

The difference between a passable and a solid coach is an extra week of training for a player to pop to the next level.

17 year olds train the fastest, add an extra week in general for each year of age. Basically there is limited point in training anyone over 21 unless they already have a very high rating and the return of popping to an even higher level would be huge.

Goalkeepers train the fastest, something like 4 or 5 weeks per pop whilst defenders take the longest at something like 8-10 weeks. The difference in training speed is because you can train 10 defenders each week but only 2 goalkeepers.

The way to train the maximum number of players each week is to play half your trainees in the league game and the other half in the friendly. Players only get trained in certain positions so if you are training strikers then your forward trainees have to play in the forward slots. There is also a limit to training that you can only gain training in certain formations. You can add one extra player to an area to the standard 4-4-2 formation to still gain training. So 3-4-3 is valid but 3-3-4 is not if you are training forwards.

The value of training is that with inadequate passing a passable forward is worth about 30k, a solid forward should get about 100k, an excellent might get around 300k, formidable 600k, outstanding 1.1 million. So if a trainee takes 6.5 weeks on average to pop when you buy him as a passable 18 year old. In 20 weeks they would hopefully reach formidable and be worth 600k instead of 30k.

Schip · 10-01-2005, 15:13

from looking at your players (first glance): your 19yo excellent playmaker needs stamina desperately. In general innermids with stamina below solid are of less use.

The other thing that strikes me is that a lot of your players are acceptable (but not remarkably good) in more than one skill. Remember that a players main skill will determine his performance for about 75%, so it's important to be (in my case) atleast solid in that. Experience compensates a lot, and your doing great in that area.

I'll take a closer look tonight.

Melifluous · 10-01-2005, 16:21

Thanks for all your replies.

If it makes it any easier I'll include my latest hrf.

Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Melihrf.txt
19.32KB

This is an hrf renamed to a txt to allow me to upload it [

]

Melifluous

English_brit · 10-01-2005, 16:38

Ok, I'll try and keep this succinct so it's easier to take in.

Had a good look at your team and here are what'd be my priorities if I were in your position.

1. Get a solid\poor coach, which will cost you £179k (Get an attacking one imo)
2. Decide what you want to train. Based on the players you have I'd choose either Playmaking or Scoring.
3. Sort out which existing players are worth training and how many new trainees you'll need to buy in.
4. Sell off players that are surplus to requirements. (ask for advice if you need it)
5. Buy in trainees.

Personally if I were in your position I'd train playmaking. I'd keep these 3 players to play as inner midfielders and then buy 3 more for the other 3 inner spots.

Urban Almlius
TSI = 2 190 , 19 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

EDIT: SNIP

Erdem de Klaver
TSI = 1 480 , 19 years, excellent form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities

EDIT: SNIP

Rick Sprengen
TSI = 500 , 19 years, wretched form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities [Technical]

EDIT: SNIP

Atm you can get some passable inner midfielders with inadequte+ stamina and okish secondaries for next to nothing. You could then buy 3 of those and use these players for the next couple of seasons.

At the end of this season train stamina for 2 weeks so most of them will be up to solid stamina. Then continure to train playmaking.

I tend to sell my trainees when they hit around 21.

Make sure your training intensity is at 100 btw and that you have as many physios as you can afford. I have the full 10.

More importantly make sure you have the full amount of assistant coaches to help train your players (aslong as you can afford it). Most people use either a 9 and 1 or an 8 and 2 setup so their keepers don't lose form. I use 8 and 2 as it shouldn't lessen your players training times at all while keeping keepers form higher.

The Platypus guide is a great read as Dell mentioned and should put you well on the road to implementing a good training regime.

You do seriously need to trim your squad down imo though. You don't need that many players and as a result your paying more wages than you need to.

I have 23 players currently. This is a touch less than most people but I like keeping my wages firmly under control. 25ish should be more than enough to take in to account injuries etc. Many more seems pointless to me.

If you want more specific help or to ask which players etc imo you should sell, get in touch with me on messenger.

peter_rogers2000<at>hotmail.com EDITED TO TRY AND BEAT THE BOTS

Hope this helps.

Sorry EB, edited out sensitive info about my trainees [

]

English_brit · 10-01-2005, 16:44

Btw, forgot to say the trainees you buy in should be 17. So they'll be 18 at the start of next season.

Sell off the surplus players to raise cash before you buy the trainees so you can buy the best you can afford atm aswell. Split the money evenly and get the best secondaries you can manager and make sure the stamina is no worse than inadequate.

Dell19 · 10-01-2005, 17:15

Since they will be 18 so soon you should be trying to pay 18 year old prices for them so you have to be careful that you don't pay too much for players. Its a good idea to look through the entire list of players bookmarking those that look good and then reviewing the players that you have bookmarked then you will be able to judge how much you will have to pay. I think I overpaid for some of my trainees and definately for my inadequate goalkeeper.

Just to add to English Brit's point about secondaries, only certain skills are secondaries depending on what you are training. Passing is the only secondary for strikers whilst IMs can benefit from passing, defending and they benefit the most from high stamina. Stamina is reasonably important for players but if you are going to be training it in the off season then you don't need to buy excellent stamina players. I didn't really do this so some of my trainees have low passing which means I will not get as much money for them.

I think Schip covered this but it would be a good idea to train stamina over the offseason, this is what I plan to do since all my IMs have low levels of stamina. I'm trying to sell my only excellent stamina IM now so that I can get an IM with passable stamina so that all my midfield will benefit from the stamina training.

edit:
Here are the training stats for all leagues:
General 86941 18 %
Stamina 32401 7 %
Set Pieces 4740 1 %
Defending 75077 16 %
Scoring 73792 15 %
Cross Pass (Winger) 23171 5 %
Shooting 9770 2 %
Short Passes 24636 5 %
Playmaking 121127 25 %
Goaltending 30884 6 %

A quarter of teams train playmaking and thats likely to have an effect on transfer prices at least for trainees. Then again the midfield is the most important area of the team so 25% might be about right.

Melifluous · 10-01-2005, 23:29

As I've seen in the films I must exclaim...

Come on Yndy!!!

Your input needs must be seen!

Melifluous

ProPain · 11-01-2005, 00:05

really havent got the time to look into your squad now but will do tomorrow. However I've been looking into formidable midfielders and they're quite cheap to buy. Probably because they're being trained so much. Solid PM will costs you 100-150K I guess, a formidable one will sell for 500-700K sometimes even less. That's quiet a small margin, I advise against training them.

I'm training keepers now and I'm thinking the profit per week is better than for playmakers. Before I trained wingers: wouldnt do that market for them is slow. Looked into forwards too a bit, seems a better market than playmakers too.

In short, you wanna train what earns you most a week and buy what's not profitable to train.

so ((buying level price - selling level price)* training slots)/(training weeks necessary to acquire level gain)

Second point to take into account. Prices in the market have been dropping for the last year and will prolly continue to do so as more new teams enter the game: They're buying more low level players (trainees) and selling more midlevel players.

That's why I'm training keepers: short training period means I can get out quickly should the market for keepers collapse.

Dell19 · 11-01-2005, 00:22

The disadvantage to keeper training is that an injury to a trainee is far more significant. Half your income is being delayed for each week that player is out injured. It is useful though in that its probably the easiest training skill to swap to and to swap to a different skill since you only need two trainees.

10-01-2005, 14:31	#1
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	Meli Manglers Need Help OK Its finally come to this. I am about to promote to the 5th division next season and would appreciate any help on my players. I keep reading here and there that people are getting lots of money from trainees and I must confess to A) Not really understanding how training works b) Not really doing any training myself. So this is how I stand. TEAM LIST PULLED AS I HOPE TO GET A COUPLE OF PLAYERS FROM MY NEW LEAGUE INTERESTED IN OUR CUP AND DONT WANT TO SHOW THEM MY TEAM [] I have £70,000 and should get at least another £100,000 from this Sundays home match. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Melifluous __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

10-01-2005, 16:21	#4
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	Thanks for all your replies. If it makes it any easier I'll include my latest hrf. Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Melihrf.txt 19.32KB This is an hrf renamed to a txt to allow me to upload it [] Melifluous __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

10-01-2005, 16:38	#5
English_brit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: . Posts: 393	Ok, I'll try and keep this succinct so it's easier to take in. Had a good look at your team and here are what'd be my priorities if I were in your position. 1. Get a solid\poor coach, which will cost you £179k (Get an attacking one imo) 2. Decide what you want to train. Based on the players you have I'd choose either Playmaking or Scoring. 3. Sort out which existing players are worth training and how many new trainees you'll need to buy in. 4. Sell off players that are surplus to requirements. (ask for advice if you need it) 5. Buy in trainees. Personally if I were in your position I'd train playmaking. I'd keep these 3 players to play as inner midfielders and then buy 3 more for the other 3 inner spots. Urban Almlius TSI = 2 190 , 19 years, inadequate form Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities EDIT: SNIP Erdem de Klaver TSI = 1 480 , 19 years, excellent form Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities EDIT: SNIP Rick Sprengen TSI = 500 , 19 years, wretched form Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities [Technical] EDIT: SNIP Atm you can get some passable inner midfielders with inadequte+ stamina and okish secondaries for next to nothing. You could then buy 3 of those and use these players for the next couple of seasons. At the end of this season train stamina for 2 weeks so most of them will be up to solid stamina. Then continure to train playmaking. I tend to sell my trainees when they hit around 21. Make sure your training intensity is at 100 btw and that you have as many physios as you can afford. I have the full 10. More importantly make sure you have the full amount of assistant coaches to help train your players (aslong as you can afford it). Most people use either a 9 and 1 or an 8 and 2 setup so their keepers don't lose form. I use 8 and 2 as it shouldn't lessen your players training times at all while keeping keepers form higher. The Platypus guide is a great read as Dell mentioned and should put you well on the road to implementing a good training regime. You do seriously need to trim your squad down imo though. You don't need that many players and as a result your paying more wages than you need to. I have 23 players currently. This is a touch less than most people but I like keeping my wages firmly under control. 25ish should be more than enough to take in to account injuries etc. Many more seems pointless to me. If you want more specific help or to ask which players etc imo you should sell, get in touch with me on messenger. peter_rogers2000<at>hotmail.com EDITED TO TRY AND BEAT THE BOTS Hope this helps. Sorry EB, edited out sensitive info about my trainees []

10-01-2005, 23:29	#8
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	As I've seen in the films I must exclaim... Come on Yndy!!! Your input needs must be seen! Melifluous __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

11-01-2005, 00:05	#9
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	really havent got the time to look into your squad now but will do tomorrow. However I've been looking into formidable midfielders and they're quite cheap to buy. Probably because they're being trained so much. Solid PM will costs you 100-150K I guess, a formidable one will sell for 500-700K sometimes even less. That's quiet a small margin, I advise against training them. I'm training keepers now and I'm thinking the profit per week is better than for playmakers. Before I trained wingers: wouldnt do that market for them is slow. Looked into forwards too a bit, seems a better market than playmakers too. In short, you wanna train what earns you most a week and buy what's not profitable to train. so ((buying level price - selling level price)* training slots)/(training weeks necessary to acquire level gain) Second point to take into account. Prices in the market have been dropping for the last year and will prolly continue to do so as more new teams enter the game: They're buying more low level players (trainees) and selling more midlevel players. That's why I'm training keepers: short training period means I can get out quickly should the market for keepers collapse. __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

10-01-2005, 14:48	#2
Dell19 King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grantham. Posts: 1,359	The Platypus guide at www.Hottrick.org should have plenty of stuff on training You should never train general as the benefits are limited whilst the training level should be 100% and you need at least a passable training coach. The important facters that influence the speed of training is the training ability of the coach, the age of the players and the training type. The difference between a passable and a solid coach is an extra week of training for a player to pop to the next level. 17 year olds train the fastest, add an extra week in general for each year of age. Basically there is limited point in training anyone over 21 unless they already have a very high rating and the return of popping to an even higher level would be huge. Goalkeepers train the fastest, something like 4 or 5 weeks per pop whilst defenders take the longest at something like 8-10 weeks. The difference in training speed is because you can train 10 defenders each week but only 2 goalkeepers. The way to train the maximum number of players each week is to play half your trainees in the league game and the other half in the friendly. Players only get trained in certain positions so if you are training strikers then your forward trainees have to play in the forward slots. There is also a limit to training that you can only gain training in certain formations. You can add one extra player to an area to the standard 4-4-2 formation to still gain training. So 3-4-3 is valid but 3-3-4 is not if you are training forwards. The value of training is that with inadequate passing a passable forward is worth about 30k, a solid forward should get about 100k, an excellent might get around 300k, formidable 600k, outstanding 1.1 million. So if a trainee takes 6.5 weeks on average to pop when you buy him as a passable 18 year old. In 20 weeks they would hopefully reach formidable and be worth 600k instead of 30k.

10-01-2005, 15:13	#3
Schip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 289	from looking at your players (first glance): your 19yo excellent playmaker needs stamina desperately. In general innermids with stamina below solid are of less use. The other thing that strikes me is that a lot of your players are acceptable (but not remarkably good) in more than one skill. Remember that a players main skill will determine his performance for about 75%, so it's important to be (in my case) atleast solid in that. Experience compensates a lot, and your doing great in that area. I'll take a closer look tonight.

10-01-2005, 16:44	#6
English_brit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: . Posts: 393	Btw, forgot to say the trainees you buy in should be 17. So they'll be 18 at the start of next season. Sell off the surplus players to raise cash before you buy the trainees so you can buy the best you can afford atm aswell. Split the money evenly and get the best secondaries you can manager and make sure the stamina is no worse than inadequate.

10-01-2005, 17:15	#7
Dell19 King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grantham. Posts: 1,359	Since they will be 18 so soon you should be trying to pay 18 year old prices for them so you have to be careful that you don't pay too much for players. Its a good idea to look through the entire list of players bookmarking those that look good and then reviewing the players that you have bookmarked then you will be able to judge how much you will have to pay. I think I overpaid for some of my trainees and definately for my inadequate goalkeeper. Just to add to English Brit's point about secondaries, only certain skills are secondaries depending on what you are training. Passing is the only secondary for strikers whilst IMs can benefit from passing, defending and they benefit the most from high stamina. Stamina is reasonably important for players but if you are going to be training it in the off season then you don't need to buy excellent stamina players. I didn't really do this so some of my trainees have low passing which means I will not get as much money for them. I think Schip covered this but it would be a good idea to train stamina over the offseason, this is what I plan to do since all my IMs have low levels of stamina. I'm trying to sell my only excellent stamina IM now so that I can get an IM with passable stamina so that all my midfield will benefit from the stamina training. edit: Here are the training stats for all leagues: General 86941 18 % Stamina 32401 7 % Set Pieces 4740 1 % Defending 75077 16 % Scoring 73792 15 % Cross Pass (Winger) 23171 5 % Shooting 9770 2 % Short Passes 24636 5 % Playmaking 121127 25 % Goaltending 30884 6 % A quarter of teams train playmaking and thats likely to have an effect on transfer prices at least for trainees. Then again the midfield is the most important area of the team so 25% might be about right.

11-01-2005, 00:22	#10
Dell19 King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grantham. Posts: 1,359	The disadvantage to keeper training is that an injury to a trainee is far more significant. Half your income is being delayed for each week that player is out injured. It is useful though in that its probably the easiest training skill to swap to and to swap to a different skill since you only need two trainees.