inside and outside (4+ players, mod. diplo rules)

grs · 17-12-2004, 21:44

Hiho,

since "the longest PBEM ever" proves to be a short one for me I want to propose a new (or maybe a very old?) idea. I would like to start a PBEM game without any outgame diplo.

1. No diplo or exchange of game information, maps, trade proposal etc. out of the boundaries of the game engine! No MSM, ICQ, Email, whatever. This does not forbid open threads where we may note world events or spoiler threads, but is meant to stop outgame diplo.

2. Trades and diplo are arranged by the ingame mechanics - including the haggeling. Want to trade techs? Put it on the table and send it unaccepted to your neighbour to ask what he offers.

3. No breaking of deals! If you pay gpt or resource, you can't escape via declaring war. Same goes for all other deals and treaties. Obviously there will be situations where you might lose a resource not by your fault. That may happen and is ok ouf course, but cutting a resource intentionally abandoning a town etc is not. Use your common sense and fairness to judge.

4. Map trading restored to map making, contact trading restored to writing. So PTW diplo requirements apply.

I would like to play with 4 - 6 players without AIs. I think a small pangea should be the way to go and I like fair, but not artificially equal starts. C3C besides the diplo rules.

Who wants to do diplo the hard way with me?

Beam · 18-12-2004, 01:23

First of all I'd be more than happy to make you a map when things are sorted out.

I'd also like to express my personal opinion about a human-only game without outgame diplo.

For me it would take away most if not all of the juice in playing with human players. Part of it is the kind of deals that are only possible out of game, part of it also is the "social" aspect of it. On the latter, in a game like this you are going to spend a lot of time together and discouraging contact between players isn't a big help in getting the game at speed.

The other thing is that the in-game diplo really isn't suited for the way human players normally would like to conduct diplo. Making a deal could require a couple of turns of sending / denying / accepting etc. before a deal is made.

Knowing you from AG11 I can imganine you like challenges in Civ and maybe hard diplo is. What I'm missing is the fun factor that comes with the challenge. Since I also can imagine you want to regulate out-game diplo why not do a 5 / 10 turn open diplo round in MSN and agree to refrain from diplo in between?

Again, my very personal opinion and I would be the first to encourage different game formats! Good luck and as said I'll make you a map when all pieces fall together.

grs · 19-12-2004, 22:33

Well, it seems your opinion is that of many Beam

Matrix · 06-01-2005, 00:14

I have thought about this as well, grs.

The concept is interesting, but I think Beam is right. It's even more fun with diplo. If PBEM's weren't so 'effort consuming' I certainly would've given it a try.

I wonder if another multimultiplayer game (with diplo) would be achievable.

grs · 06-01-2005, 11:37

Hmm, I am playing two multi human PBEMs once the TAM game starts. That will be enough for now I guess.

StrictlyRockers · 10-01-2005, 02:51

grs, I am interested in playin in a game of this style. I think it is a fun way to play. It streamlines things considerably and would take away from the effort and time that multi-human games can require.

grs · 10-01-2005, 10:56

Rockers, ok...I am a bit full on games right now, but we can still wait and see if we get 2 more players later.

17-12-2004, 21:44	#1
grs The Nameless One Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany. Posts: 1,449	inside and outside (4+ players, mod. diplo rules) Hiho, since "the longest PBEM ever" proves to be a short one for me I want to propose a new (or maybe a very old?) idea. I would like to start a PBEM game without any outgame diplo. 1. No diplo or exchange of game information, maps, trade proposal etc. out of the boundaries of the game engine! No MSM, ICQ, Email, whatever. This does not forbid open threads where we may note world events or spoiler threads, but is meant to stop outgame diplo. 2. Trades and diplo are arranged by the ingame mechanics - including the haggeling. Want to trade techs? Put it on the table and send it unaccepted to your neighbour to ask what he offers. 3. No breaking of deals! If you pay gpt or resource, you can't escape via declaring war. Same goes for all other deals and treaties. Obviously there will be situations where you might lose a resource not by your fault. That may happen and is ok ouf course, but cutting a resource intentionally abandoning a town etc is not. Use your common sense and fairness to judge. 4. Map trading restored to map making, contact trading restored to writing. So PTW diplo requirements apply. I would like to play with 4 - 6 players without AIs. I think a small pangea should be the way to go and I like fair, but not artificially equal starts. C3C besides the diplo rules. Who wants to do diplo the hard way with me? __________________ grs / Grookshank

18-12-2004, 01:23	#2
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	First of all I'd be more than happy to make you a map when things are sorted out. I'd also like to express my personal opinion about a human-only game without outgame diplo. For me it would take away most if not all of the juice in playing with human players. Part of it is the kind of deals that are only possible out of game, part of it also is the "social" aspect of it. On the latter, in a game like this you are going to spend a lot of time together and discouraging contact between players isn't a big help in getting the game at speed. The other thing is that the in-game diplo really isn't suited for the way human players normally would like to conduct diplo. Making a deal could require a couple of turns of sending / denying / accepting etc. before a deal is made. Knowing you from AG11 I can imganine you like challenges in Civ and maybe hard diplo is. What I'm missing is the fun factor that comes with the challenge. Since I also can imagine you want to regulate out-game diplo why not do a 5 / 10 turn open diplo round in MSN and agree to refrain from diplo in between? Again, my very personal opinion and I would be the first to encourage different game formats! Good luck and as said I'll make you a map when all pieces fall together. __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

19-12-2004, 22:33	#3
grs The Nameless One Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany. Posts: 1,449	Well, it seems your opinion is that of many Beam __________________ grs / Grookshank

06-01-2005, 00:14	#4
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	I have thought about this as well, grs. The concept is interesting, but I think Beam is right. It's even more fun with diplo. If PBEM's weren't so 'effort consuming' I certainly would've given it a try. I wonder if another multimultiplayer game (with diplo) would be achievable. __________________

06-01-2005, 11:37	#5
grs The Nameless One Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany. Posts: 1,449	Hmm, I am playing two multi human PBEMs once the TAM game starts. That will be enough for now I guess. __________________ grs / Grookshank

10-01-2005, 02:51	#6
StrictlyRockers Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA USA. Posts: 57	grs, I am interested in playin in a game of this style. I think it is a fun way to play. It streamlines things considerably and would take away from the effort and time that multi-human games can require. __________________ When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. -Winston Churchill

10-01-2005, 10:56	#7
grs The Nameless One Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany. Posts: 1,449	Rockers, ok...I am a bit full on games right now, but we can still wait and see if we get 2 more players later. __________________ grs / Grookshank