Mapmaking ethics

Kingreno · 13-04-2004, 08:58

I have a dilemma.

The situation: In my game versus Anarres we play on an archipelago map. The map was custom made for us and first this by NO MEANS any criticism on the mapmakers, since the map is great and I'll only use this as an example.

The Map is build in a way that Anarres and I start on Identical Islands (I found out later). Both have exactly the same island (99%) with the same luxes, same resources, etc. Now at some point I find Anarres, as I see a Byzantine Curragh on my shores. We are far away and my scoutboat is sunk before I get to map his island entirely. However, the parts which I CAN see (like the capitol, I build an embassy), give me a pretty certain clue that my island is the same as his. Naturally I can see my own island, so I also know, that off his eastern coast is a second Island whcih very likely contains a lux, ivory, as my own island has that too. Now, on my island, there is no second source of Ivory and thus I assume Anarres has his only Ivory there too.
Now I send some boats (hoping they won't all sink) to the PRESUMED location of his second island to land units there. It should hurt him if he loses his Ivory there. Secondly, I do not see him having a vast number of units present on this island.
But the issue here is, I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO "KNOW" he has an island there!!!!! That is a problem people! If landmasses are IDENTICAL, why scout?

. Again, I am not blaming anyone for this at all, but I feel it is not right. Of course, Anarres should know the same things I know, meaning he can do the same to me, but in this case, Anarres found me way earlier then I found him, so he actually spend time and resources to Map my island. Where as all I had to do is build an embassy...
So, In my opinion, the mapmakers should be vary very careful when "copying" an island. I guess the starts are ok to copy, and even the first 2 or 3 city locations, but when it goes further then that...
Any ideas?

Aggie · 13-04-2004, 09:10

I agree that we should be careful with identical landmasses. I am eagerly awaiting an addition to the maptweaker program, which makes it easier for the mapmakers to have similar but different landmasses more easily.

We have had major issues with inbalanced games before the maptweaker. Now we can control this better. A couple of identical landmasses were created in the beginning, also as a learning experience. But I am now doing more than that. I use maptweaker and after that alter the landscape. This takes a lot of time, but still less than making maps from scratch or with the RNG.

Skyfish · 13-04-2004, 11:04

It's a choice: you get perfectly balanced starts but you get aforeknowledge of your opponents lands.
I believe it s not a bad giveaway for great balance.
Please keep in mind that maps are not *always* copy/pasted so one still does not know what to expect until late...
We will *never* reach the perfect system anyway.
I also dont believe it's an "Ethics" problem, just a choice to make

13-04-2004, 08:58	#1
Kingreno Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,270	Mapmaking ethics I have a dilemma. The situation: In my game versus Anarres we play on an archipelago map. The map was custom made for us and first this by NO MEANS any criticism on the mapmakers, since the map is great and I'll only use this as an example. The Map is build in a way that Anarres and I start on Identical Islands (I found out later). Both have exactly the same island (99%) with the same luxes, same resources, etc. Now at some point I find Anarres, as I see a Byzantine Curragh on my shores. We are far away and my scoutboat is sunk before I get to map his island entirely. However, the parts which I CAN see (like the capitol, I build an embassy), give me a pretty certain clue that my island is the same as his. Naturally I can see my own island, so I also know, that off his eastern coast is a second Island whcih very likely contains a lux, ivory, as my own island has that too. Now, on my island, there is no second source of Ivory and thus I assume Anarres has his only Ivory there too. Now I send some boats (hoping they won't all sink) to the PRESUMED location of his second island to land units there. It should hurt him if he loses his Ivory there. Secondly, I do not see him having a vast number of units present on this island. But the issue here is, I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO "KNOW" he has an island there!!!!! That is a problem people! If landmasses are IDENTICAL, why scout? . Again, I am not blaming anyone for this at all, but I feel it is not right. Of course, Anarres should know the same things I know, meaning he can do the same to me, but in this case, Anarres found me way earlier then I found him, so he actually spend time and resources to Map my island. Where as all I had to do is build an embassy... So, In my opinion, the mapmakers should be vary very careful when "copying" an island. I guess the starts are ok to copy, and even the first 2 or 3 city locations, but when it goes further then that... Any ideas? __________________ Go ahead punk. Make my day.

13-04-2004, 11:04	#3
Skyfish Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: dead. Posts: 2,349	It's a choice: you get perfectly balanced starts but you get aforeknowledge of your opponents lands. I believe it s not a bad giveaway for great balance. Please keep in mind that maps are not always copy/pasted so one still does not know what to expect until late... We will never reach the perfect system anyway. I also dont believe it's an "Ethics" problem, just a choice to make __________________ <font color=\"brown\"> <b><i>\"NOT back from the dead\"</b></i> </font id=\"brown\">

13-04-2004, 09:10	#2
Aggie Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N/A Posts: 4,490	I agree that we should be careful with identical landmasses. I am eagerly awaiting an addition to the maptweaker program, which makes it easier for the mapmakers to have similar but different landmasses more easily. We have had major issues with inbalanced games before the maptweaker. Now we can control this better. A couple of identical landmasses were created in the beginning, also as a learning experience. But I am now doing more than that. I use maptweaker and after that alter the landscape. This takes a lot of time, but still less than making maps from scratch or with the RNG.