kryszcztov v Killer - OPEN TOPIC

[Socrates]

NOT FOR KILLER until the game is over.

Hello ! This is my 1st spoiler, I hope you'll enjoy reading about my PBEMs and learn some tips about how I play this game. No need to say that I can change my playing style whenever I want. I plan to make good spoilers, from the beginning to the end of the games, but I may want to delay information release, just for security and to see what people have to say for upcoming turns, when they're already played... Anyone is welcome to throw in comments, advice, congrats or harsh criticism. But please no information from the other player's spoiler !!! Now the plane is taking off, and the journey begins...



1v1 PBEM #2 - [u]kryszcztov v Killer :</u>
version : C3C 1.15b
world size : Standard
land mass : Continents
water coverage : 80%
climate : Wet
temperature : Warm
age : 3 Billion
barbarians : Sedentary
player 1 - kryszcztov : Byzantines
player 2 - Killer : Spain
AI rivals : 6 unspecified
AI agression : Normal
available victories : all except Wonder
difficulty : Emperor
culturally linked start locations : No (I believe)
respawn AI players : No (I believe)
preserve random seed : Yes (I believe)
allow cultural conversions : Yes (I believe)

map made by : Skyfish

This game will be played along the RBCiv rules, and some more other rules that you can find in our open thread :
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=1442

[Socrates]

STARTING POSITION


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AIs have been placed on mountains in 4000BC, thus haven't settled before us.
I settle right after sending the worker on the cow. This site is very good, it has 2 cows, many bonus grasslands, 2 spices forests, and a river running through the center of the area. It will allow an especially good micro-managing cycle in the future, which I only realized some turns later (but not too late). So Constantinople is founded in 3950BC. Actually I didn't realize both agricultural AND expansionnist civs get Pottery as a starting tech. So with only 2 civs with it (in my mind, and probably 1 on my continent) instead of 4 (for real, and probably 2 on my continent), I go for Pottery at max.

[Socrates]

ON TO EXPLORATION AND SETTLER FACTORY

As you can see, I think I'll mainly divide my spoilers in little chapters, whose sizes will depend on what happens in the game.

Constantinople first built 3 warriors ; the 1st one went straight northwards, the 2nd one went westwards, and the 3rd one fortified in the capital city. I met the Hittites on turn 12 (3400BC), and could have gave them Bronze Working for Pottery. Had I known I would get such an opportunity so early, I would have gone for Writing from the beginning, probably a gambit. But oh well, I discovered Pottery on the next turn, and then took an important decision : "I need to take some risk in this game !" So I set science on Writing at max, ignoring the fact that the 1st estimation was saying 40 turns (only 10 less than for a gambit).


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I then met the Romans on turn 15 (3250BC), and the Portuguese on turn 16 (3200BC). At that point I took another radical decision, very unusual for me : now that I had made 3 contacts on my continent, I thought that I wouldn't meet any more civs without sailing through the ocean. Both of us being seafearing civs comforted me in that thought, so I recalled my 2 warriors in the north, so as they could take care of settlers that would soon appear in Constantinople. A hut not far from the capital city and that I wanted to open myself called for this decision too, as Romans and Portuguese were obvioulsy tempted by this goodie thingie...


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[Socrates]

SETTLING DREAM : "WONDERFUL FACTORY"

I don't know if some of you guys know this, but anyway I used it in my GOTM 24 - Korea, thanks to a post by Qitai at CFC. This is essentially a 4-turn settler factory where you get a "bonus" warrior, which is perfect for settling fast with security. It stroke me during the 20 first turns, so I simulated the starting position in the editor, and was glad to find out it would eventually work.

The hut gave me 3 barbs, but fortunately I didn't lose a warrior. The granary in Constantinople was completed on turn 23 (2850BC), and the city started to pump out settlers, while waiting for the worker to improve all the needed land. Yes, being industrious would have helped me in this task (I don't think being agricultural would have been helpful, due to micro-managing considerations), but I would get other advantages elsewhere with my 2 traits. On turn 26 (2710BC) Constantinople reached size 7, and on the next turn the 1st settler was built, but somehow the semi-food box was empty at size 5 just after that ; I think that's why you shouldn't spend a whole turn at size 7, but I'll make some tests someday. Maybe I could have done it a little better.

On turn 31 (2510BC) a 2nd settler was built, and my treasury was totally empty (0 gold, doing -3 gpt !). But Adrianople was immediately founded on an excellent site : 2 food bonuses, several bonus grasslands, and the river... I had planned this city for a special task : build the Great Library from scratch. Yes, and that's why my science was at max : speed to get all the essential techs, hopefully to get many free techs afterwards.

On turn 38 (2230BC) this is it : a 4th settler was produced in Constantinople, and by now all the tiles that were needed for the "wonderful factory" were improved. It's a bit late, and even with 80% water this strategy proved to be useful. Anyway it's just an improved 4-turn settler factory, so it's all bonus. Here is a screenshot from that turn, at the beginning of the cycle :


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That's all for now. We have already played more turns, but I want to delay that a little, and also wait for enough to make a new chapter, etc... Don't hesitate to make suggestions for the next turns even though they're played ; this could allow me to improve my skills for a future game. And please any remark concerning how I make my spoilers are welcome.

[Skyfish]

Is that really a settler up there going North between Rome and Tarsus ?\

Where da hell is he going ?

[Socrates]

Yeah, that's a settler going north ! Actually, as stated before, this is a pic taken on the turn my 4th settler was built. You can also see 2 other settlers in the pic, plus Adrianople. The first 4 settlers obviously didn't make for a coastal site. Killer might be surprised by this move, but don't tell him.

[Socrates]

THE EXPANSIONNIST AND SCIENCE-BLITZING BYZANTINES

So Constantinople eventually entered the "wonderful factory" cycle, pumping out 1 warrior and 1 settler every 4 turns. I won't show a pic of my land this time, but only once it will be fully settled. But anyway Caesarea was founded on turn 40 (2150BC), just one tile north of where he is standing on the pic just above. There are some good tiles there, so I wanted to get there to have good land in the future, and also to deny it to the AIs. On turn 42 (2070BC) Nicaea was founded by the 4th settler, where the 3rd is standing in the pic. On turn 44 (1990BC) Varna was founded 4 tiles south-west of Caesarea, just 3 tiles away from Rome (again), but this time stealing some of its tiles. Romans had been busy settling on the other side, and so I took the opportunity to found cities right in front of them. We'll see later if that was a good move.

Spices near my capital were connected on turn 45 (1950BC), so now I could get more beakers. In those times I would set science at maximum speed, sometimes just being at 0 gold ! On the next turn I discovered Writing, and of course I was the 1st on my continent to get it (I assume my "continent" is composed by the 3 of them and me only).


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No way I would sell the precious tech ! Of course it's a great tech to share with your "team mates" (remember it's continents here), but because my aim was to get the Great Library, I wasn't going to go against my strategy, all the more with Emperor AIs !!

Then the settling phase continued (well... it never stopped !) ; on turn 49 (1790BC) I eventually settled on the coast : Smyrna on the west coast and Heraclea on the east coast. At that time Romans had settled (or were about to) on a site I wanted to steal (with ivory), and Hittites had settled one step closer again, on the coast, just next to Constantinople. I was disappointed, but I just couldn't get ALL the land. My hope is that it will eventually flip to me ; it's the easiest way I could get it, but it's also the most unlikely, and during all that time that's many uncorrupted tiles that I can't harvest, but oh well.

For the rest of the settling phase : Trebizond on turn 54 (1650BC), Chalcedon on turn 59 (1525BC), Sardica on turn 61 (1475BC), thus getting me 10 towns, what is required now for the Forbidden Palace (it was good for the prebuild in Adrianople). Adrianople started the prebuild on turn 48 (1830BC). During those turns, barbs were threatening me, barbs from a hut popped up by Romans in my backyard, I guess. One even managed to pillage a wheat tile near Adrianople, which isn't good news when you're not industrious ! Also the AIs were apparently lacking space, because they were sending some settlers through my territory, but I managed to settle everywhere (so far !) before them. I was a bit worried about them to declare a sudden war on me, because all I had were warriors, and I was lacking Warrior Code... Some turns later 2 of the AIs got Writing too, so I sold it to the 3rd one (Hittites) for the Wheel + 10 gold (quite expensive tech and horses).

On turn 61 (1475BC) I was the 1st one to discover Code of Laws. My plan was to go for Philo first, but then I thought I may have a chance to get Code of Laws first too. I was a little comfortable with this idea, because I was researching as fast as I could and because this game is on Emperor. My only fear came from the other mysterious continent ; I was wondering what Killer was doing with the AIs and his own research. I bet he went straightly for a Writing gambit, and some MSN chatting seemed to confirm that he had it at that time (we have "no lie" as a rule in CDZ, it seems). But I was confident in my research, so next I went for Philosophy at maximum speed too.


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I built a curragh in Heraclea right away, and I started exploring to the east, as there seemed to be some land there. The little boat quickly founded out that it was a nice middle-sized island, completely unsettled of course. And look at those tiles, not far from the capital !! Skyfish is such a nice guy.


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The sad thing is that I tried to load a settler and a warrior on the boat, only to find out that curraghs can't ferry anything. I don't know C3C very well, but anyway I like this boat like that : you still need Map Making in order to settle overseas, which makes sense both historically and in gameplay. On turn 65 (1375BC) Nicaea completed a barracks : it will produce the spearmen I desperately need.

And this is where I'm now so happy with this game :


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I was nervous when I got the save from Killer (if you're watching this, Killer (after your defeat ), this is what I was so nervous about on MSN), and I was released to see I was the 1st civ in the world to get Philosophy, on turn 68 (1300BC). Killer had told me some turns before that Philosophy suddenly seemed a little cheaper, and wondered whether I had it (of course no, and of course it wouldn't be the reason, and of course I won't ever tell you anything !!). So I was afraid that another civ on his continent already had it, but then he would have known... Well I'll never run into such chatting again, it's not worth the thing. Now tell me : am I going to click on "Yeah OK, let's start researching Warrior Code, just for fun !" ???


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When I saw that I shouted a big "YEAH !!!" I think it's the 1st time I've got this tech so early in Civ3. To my pleasure science is worth doing again in this game, at least on Emperor. Now a scientific leader would have been "the cherry on the cake" (as we say in French), but then I would have had such an advantage !... With all these techs I grabbed first (I assume, at least for the last 2 techs), and being scientific, it would have been a nice reward for my efforts. Remember that scientific civs, if I'm not mistaken, have a 5% chance to get one every tech they discover first, which is quite a lot actually.


This is where I'll stop tonight. We're just 1 or 2 turns after that anyway. Killer is suspecting something on MSN, but he won't tell me what, and he's going to laugh silently (after I told him that too). Asked why, he answered : "You'll soon see." Anyway this game feels great, I'm outscoring everyone by far. The fields in which I'm not doing good are military and sea exploration. But each turn that passes is a turn for my side (as I get stronger and stronger). Still, I'm expecting some surprise, I know PBEM is a different world. As for Republic, I plan to revolt in a few turns, once Constantinople has finished its current settler. I'll then have 2 of them waiting for my curragh to upgrade to a ferrying dromon. The east island is waiting for me. Or maybe I can send 1 of them to a last piece of estate, it will depend on possibly withdrawing AIs.

[Irigy]

A question from a curious newbie, that happens to play against Killer as well.

How on earth do you finance your science output (or vice-versa the remaining upkeep of your cities and troops)?

I'm quite sure that there's no short answer to this, but if you could give me a hint for what to look out (some keyword or something) i'm quite sure that i'm capable of finding it myself.

Other than that:

Good job! Keep it up, i'm very impressed...

[Skyfish]

This is a real fun spoiler Krys

quotewe have "no lie" as a rule in CDZ, it seems)

Yeah right

quote:the "wonderful factory" cycle, pumping out 1 warrior and 1 settler every 4 turns

Am flabbergasted!
You said this was a Qitai tactic can you tell me more please ? A link ?
How do you do it ?

[ERIKK]

Yeah, very interesting!