SGOTM6 - Screenshots and Turnlogs

[akots]

Ok, I spent about an hour looking through the save and I'm really pissed. It will be very surprising if we don't kill each other in the end.

Just a few ridiculous things noticed:

1) We are frantically pop-rushing settlers all over the place. Yet there are 10 (!!!!) settlers idle in the USInvasion and they are just sitting there doing nothing. There is a plenty of unsettled lands. If they were just walked over there and build something... Can somebody please explain this to me?

2) If we were going for the US, why there is only few troops there, 10 GS or so, same as the number of settlers? What was going on around there?

3) There were about a dozen cities which had +1fpt working a 2-food tile and a 1-food tile and allowed to grow. These should be whipped as soon as they reach size 2 or set to build workers apparently.

4) We are building Coloseums all over the place yet why not Cathedrals?

5) Why did we start to make horsemen and stopped warrior/GS cycle? I guess the whole idea of sitting without Feudalism and not capturing TGL was to build as many GS as possible but we have a bunch of gold now and nowehere to put it and not enough troops to climb over India or America.

6) The galleys near USInvasion were fortified apparently for the last 25 turns and did not move anywhere. If they would have been moved somewhere closer to France, there would be some chance for the Pyramids.

There is no point in arguing imho. What has been done is done and lets forget about it. The point is how to get out of this mess with minimal losses.

So, please, discuss and approve or disapprove before I start to do something.

A) Send as many galleys and units to France as possible. It might be not enough but there might be some reinforcement out of Iro massacre.

B) There is no way to build many warriors rapidly since we are building horsemen or Coliseums all over the core with occasional settlers. I don't see how we can spend the gold we have rapidly. So, I would just forget about this cash and turn on research. But first thing first.

C) Capture TGL from India. This would kill ToA idea once and for all but will allow to build Cathedrals and Universities in the core which are substantially more efficient for culture. Set research to something meaningful to try to advance to Communism and Steam Power ASAP. Steal or buy from AI whatever we don't get from TGL.

D) Assemble all GS and try to take Paris and hold it by all costs breaking reputation if needed for its price is low. We are powerful and can afford that.

Please note this is pure rant and nothing else. No offense implied intentionally. But the intellectual input is highly desirable. And I'm not going to play until we all more or less agree to follow the issues.

This is because assault on Paris needs more than 10 turns!!!!!!

[Melifluous]

And I suppose this what pisses anarres off more than anything.

People ignoring what he posts.

If maybe instead of spending 30 minutes writing that post you could have 10 minutes reading the posts from (and this is the important bit) the person who played the turns before yours

There you would see that there is a tacit agreement on going Commie.

Too many temples built means that ToA is pretty useless.

Finish Iros off and then take a nibble at India.

Get TGL.

Build Unis is core cities.

We have some settlers, but building on ex-Jap lands (which are reletively undeveloped) fucks our FP lands (which are more developed).

Once research is back in place we need horse for upgrades.

quote:
No offense implied intentionally

Just implied from not reading anarres' posts []

Melifluous.

PS. And dude, that is one weird bastard of a double post

[Kingreno]

I just know I am going to post something about Coastal fortresses when I get the turn.

[Pastorius]

Arent Celts religious and agricultural? And arent you guys emperor and beyond level players?
Me no understand colosseum better than cathedral, especially considering that anarres has stressed cost benefit analysis more than once (shield cost vs benefit)

From a lurker perspective, I think you guys need to sit back, take a look at the game in total, and agree on a set of goals before you continue. Consistency is key, me thinks

[Kingreno]

In general it is far better to build Cathedrals, however, since we lack Monotheism, we do not even know how to build one. If, as Anarres says, the settler facs are screwed it is a possibilty to build culture there, hence the colosseum.

[akots]

@Meli: Don't know how I copied the post, complete mistery to me. But I deleted it, that is for sure.

So, do we all agree on these plans?

[anarres]

quote:Originally posted by akots

Ok, I spent about an hour looking through the save and I'm really pissed. It will be very surprising if we don't kill each other in the end.

Just a few ridiculous things noticed:

1) We are frantically pop-rushing settlers all over the place. Yet there are 10 (!!!!) settlers idle in the USInvasion and they are just sitting there doing nothing. There is a plenty of unsettled lands. If they were just walked over there and build something... Can somebody please explain this to me?

Well, it's about 20 turns to the "empty" lands by foot. If we don't go for ToA (likely option) I thought we would ferry them east to the new lands (India/Iros) and they will get there much quicker than over land or via the ferry in the capital.

quote:2) If we were going for the US, why there is only few troops there, 10 GS or so, same as the number of settlers? What was going on around there?

I pretty much felt that we were not going for the US anymore...

quote:3) There were about a dozen cities which had +1fpt working a 2-food tile and a 1-food tile and allowed to grow. These should be whipped as soon as they reach size 2 or set to build workers apparently.

Not always. What if they have 16 shields towards a library and have just reached size 2 like this? Do you whip now, or wait 4 turns till you have 20 shields and can part-rush via a barracks? Hint: (usually) wait 4 turns

I have to admit it's possible I missed 1 or 2 but I doubt I missed a dozen (unless they are like the type a described above, which I believe several are).

quote:4) We are building Coloseums all over the place yet why not Cathedrals?

Hmm. I assume this is just a mistake of a question?

quote:5) Why did we start to make horsemen and stopped warrior/GS cycle? I guess the whole idea of sitting without Feudalism and not capturing TGL was to build as many GS as possible but we have a bunch of gold now and nowehere to put it and not enough troops to climb over India or America.

How much more fighting is there to do? How many units do we have? I don't think we need to rush any more GS's for war. 88 seems easily enough.

In addition, if 88 *isn't* enough don't you think we'll need knights by then?

quote:6) The galleys near USInvasion were fortified apparently for the last 25 turns and did not move anywhere. If they would have been moved somewhere closer to France, there would be some chance for the Pyramids.

Load the save before mine and check where the units were. Most were "on route" up to US Invasion because I didn't want to totally deny the chance to go to the US if we wanted to, and they were alredy moving there. Don't know where 25 turns comes from?

quote:A) Send as many galleys and units to France as possible. It might be not enough but there might be some reinforcement out of Iro massacre.

B) There is no way to build many warriors rapidly since we are building horsemen or Coliseums all over the core with occasional settlers. I don't see how we can spend the gold we have rapidly. So, I would just forget about this cash and turn on research. But first thing first.

C) Capture TGL from India. This would kill ToA idea once and for all but will allow to build Cathedrals and Universities in the core which are substantially more efficient for culture. Set research to something meaningful to try to advance to Communism and Steam Power ASAP. Steal or buy from AI whatever we don't get from TGL.

D) Assemble all GS and try to take Paris and hold it by all costs breaking reputation if needed for its price is low. We are powerful and can afford that.

Yes to all but if we are going for Paris we should start our diplomatic war now. Get MA's with England and Scandanavia if possible, and embargos from everyone else if they can trade.

I am definintly for taking the GL now, and also taking over India.

[akots]

Thanks for clearing that up.

For me, it is easier to browse all cities every turn than trying to locate them by MapStat especially considering wild forest chop which is impossible to follow.

OK, the galleys will then set sail west and more west dropping settlers on the way and loaded with whatever GS we might find our there.

Seems that knights are a good choice but we might have not enough troops to rapidly devastate India and what remains out of Iro. A number of GS are scattered around. Aparently, good idea might be declared to India, capture TGL and let them attack with whatever they have may be making alliance against Ghandi with Babylon. Actually Babylonian military is average to ours, so India will be likely torn apart into pieces and we just walk in and take what is ours.

Then seems a good idea to leave at least some of the gold for horse-knight upgrades.

[Col.Tarleton]

Reading this game is so entertaining,rather like watching Newcastle v Aston Villa ,
Have you tried ship chaining to move your troops,quickly.The top teams use it extensivly.

[akots]

Preturn: Surveyed all cities and changed many builds rushing where it was required and switching to food-rich tiles. Allied America against France for Incense + 2gpt. Great Library cannot be captured this turn, we still need a last round of upgrades before going for India.

[1] Kahna taken, only 1 GS lost, but 5 retreated. I take peace with Iro for 2 remote cities in the hills north of India. The cities might be taken by India though. Browsed through cities again and rushed many builds, mostly libraries with a few settlers. Still cannot take Great Library, not enough workers to road iron.

[2] Last round of upgrades finished. We are down to 1K gold but up to 101 GS. Declare to India and take Great Library. Take Karachi. Allied Babylon against India. That would be some fun apparently since they had RoP. I ask Babylon to withdraw since we don’t have RoP with them and they declare. It is a mess out there. The F4 screen looks weird, I have omitted China from the picture just because they don’t matter. IBT: We lose a city which was recently acquired from Iro for peace. We learn bottom tree to Chemistry and top tree to Education but no Education yet.



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[3] Changed many builds to Cathedrals, rushed many Libraries. Bengal and Madras captured.

[4] Many builds ready, rushed some more, Bangalore captured from Babylon actually.

[5] Delhi captured. Again browsed through all cities. Still have not turned on research, waiting for Education. May be it is a mistake.

[6] Thing moving a bit faster, finally somehow got a hold on the game in terms of what to rush and when.

Bombay captured. Lahore also somehow captured. Evil Babylon advanced with a huge SOD towards our size 1 jungle city and will raze it probably. City gifted to China as consolation. Finally got enough workers to connect iron within a single turn.

[9] More builds and more whipping. May be I’m overdoing it but most of cities are at size 1.

[10] We are at 15417 culture and added 516 cpt form the preceding turn. Not too bad indeed. The fleet with 16GS is 2 turns away from landing and India is down to 3 cities. It might be possible to continue whipping when towns are on even shields. We have settlers, barracks, and granaries/harbors as intermediates for whipping. Core is almost completely "Cathedralized". Education is not around yet but Vikings have Metallurgy.

IMHO, we can have a break with Pyramids. It is certainly a critical wonder. Otherwise, the game is rather boring like any 100K cultural.




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