CDZ CUP first lustrum edition - discussion thread

Schip · 26-01-2005, 22:29

Before the smoke even has cleared from the battle grounds of the already famous and worshipped CDZ-CUP 4th edition, past and future participants are screaming for the next one.

It will be our first lustrum!

The main theme of this edition will be:

So I started this thread to discuss 5th editions set-up, start date and whatever topic comes up!

Fire away........

socralynnek · 01-02-2005, 12:39

So, to say what I think about it:
What was good and should be done again:
-Everyone plays matches till the end

A proposal:
How about playing with a Swiss rating system
For those not familiar with it (used mostly in chess tourneys):
The first of the actual table plays againts second, 3rd against 4th,...
(one can avoid double matches against a team by slightly altering it)

Big advantage: There are only thrilling games because one plays against the teams of similar strength.
Another advantage is that you just play as many rounds as you wish, the system is fine with every number of rounds and teams (in theory it should even be no problem for a team to join a week later)

One disadvantage that I see is that since the weaker teams play each other they get less spectators which means less money.

If someone wants to know more about Swiss system , ask me ( We have e.g. used it in a company badminton tourney and it was fine)

Kemal · 01-02-2005, 13:42

I think what we definitely want to preserve, or at least that's what I understood from the earlier edition's discussions, is the international character of the cup... as much internationals as possible, which I think might not be very compatible with the Swiss rating system, especially since there seem to be so many Dutch teams at about the same strength (based on the previous edition's ranking).

I have to say I'm quite okay with another poule system, though that does mean the amount of participants heavily influences the schedule and organisation of the Cup, and which also prevents a possible earlier start, since a team which progresses far in the national cup can't join the cdz cup later when using a poule system. It does allow, however, a sure amount of international friendlies for all participants.

English_brit · 01-02-2005, 14:01

I don't really understand how the Swiss system works, but wouldn't it mean that many teams would know they can't win the Cup before it's even started as they don't have a chance to beat any of the better teams as they won't get to play them?

I like the Cup as it is although yeah it can be tricky if someone progresses a long way in their national cup, although I don't think many of us will get too far in our Cups. I'd be suprised if anyone gets past the 4th round of their Cup. (waits to be proven wrong) lol

socralynnek · 01-02-2005, 14:38

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

I think what we definitely want to preserve, or at least that's what I understood from the earlier edition's discussions, is the international character of the cup... as much internationals as possible, which I think might not be very compatible with the Swiss rating system, especially since there seem to be so many Dutch teams at about the same strength (based on the previous edition's ranking).

We used for a our badminton tourney the program "Sevilla" which can be found at http://www.jbfsoftware.com/
There you can enter criterions for the pairing, e.g. you can make teams for example "Dutch" , "English" etc. and there is a flag "Allow pairing of teammates" so that the program avoids pairing of teammates as much as possible. The program also allows to enter some pairings and only calculate the others etc.
So, it might not be compatible with the "pure" version of Swiss, but with a relaxed version where you can set criterions it would even make sense...

And surely some teams would know that they wouldn't win the cup (e.g. me, but there it doesn't matter which system we use), but you could still play some stronger teams, because if you win a match you move up in the table. But you wouldn't play that many matches where you would know before that you have not a single chance of winning.
And by setting the criteria that no match is played twice, you would get 8 different teams in 8 weeks...

Dell19 · 01-02-2005, 17:58

I can see the major benefit of using the Swiss style would be that there is the potential for teams to enter later or earlier so perhaps the pairings could go on throughout the season. The other benefit is what Socra said in that in this edition of the cup I played at least two games that I had no chance of winning even with most of my first team so the current cup idea doesn't give everyone a fair chance of winning.

Then again I am biased towards this system as I may be entering another competition at the BDF in week 3 and that could take 4 weeks at least.

yndy · 02-02-2005, 16:17

It certainly sounds interesting and like Kemal said we want to keep it international. I’ll try to take a look into the Sevilla thingie.
On the start of the next CDZ Cup, I believe that by Round 6 of the Cup, we’ll all be available. With Dell sort of committed to something different, we may either start in Round 8 or use this Swiss system from Round 6.
PS: I'll finalize the final ranking real soon.

socralynnek · 10-02-2005, 09:26

How about starting next week?
I'm out of the cup, so we can start right away....
No, just kidding, maybe we can start in week 5 or 6, how about that?

Melifluous · 10-02-2005, 11:35

I too am out of my cup.

Ready and willing to play!

Melifluous

Dell19 · 10-02-2005, 18:38

I may be free in two weeks after the friendly this week that has been arranged and the first round of the Newbie Cup. Potentially that could go on for 3 more weeks but I have to win to get to the following round. I also have one pre arranged friendly to play after the cup so a minimum of 3 friendly slots before I will be completely free.

26-01-2005, 22:29	#1
Schip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 289	CDZ CUP first lustrum edition - discussion thread Before the smoke even has cleared from the battle grounds of the already famous and worshipped CDZ-CUP 4th edition, past and future participants are screaming for the next one. It will be our first lustrum! The main theme of this edition will be: So I started this thread to discuss 5th editions set-up, start date and whatever topic comes up! Fire away........

01-02-2005, 12:39	#2
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	So, to say what I think about it: What was good and should be done again: -Everyone plays matches till the end A proposal: How about playing with a Swiss rating system For those not familiar with it (used mostly in chess tourneys): The first of the actual table plays againts second, 3rd against 4th,... (one can avoid double matches against a team by slightly altering it) Big advantage: There are only thrilling games because one plays against the teams of similar strength. Another advantage is that you just play as many rounds as you wish, the system is fine with every number of rounds and teams (in theory it should even be no problem for a team to join a week later) One disadvantage that I see is that since the weaker teams play each other they get less spectators which means less money. If someone wants to know more about Swiss system , ask me ( We have e.g. used it in a company badminton tourney and it was fine) __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.

01-02-2005, 13:42	#3
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	I think what we definitely want to preserve, or at least that's what I understood from the earlier edition's discussions, is the international character of the cup... as much internationals as possible, which I think might not be very compatible with the Swiss rating system, especially since there seem to be so many Dutch teams at about the same strength (based on the previous edition's ranking). I have to say I'm quite okay with another poule system, though that does mean the amount of participants heavily influences the schedule and organisation of the Cup, and which also prevents a possible earlier start, since a team which progresses far in the national cup can't join the cdz cup later when using a poule system. It does allow, however, a sure amount of international friendlies for all participants. __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

02-02-2005, 16:17	#7
yndy Prince Join Date: May 2003 Location: Romania. Posts: 895	It certainly sounds interesting and like Kemal said we want to keep it international. I’ll try to take a look into the Sevilla thingie. On the start of the next CDZ Cup, I believe that by Round 6 of the Cup, we’ll all be available. With Dell sort of committed to something different, we may either start in Round 8 or use this Swiss system from Round 6. PS: I'll finalize the final ranking real soon. __________________ The one and only

10-02-2005, 09:26	#8
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	How about starting next week? I'm out of the cup, so we can start right away.... No, just kidding, maybe we can start in week 5 or 6, how about that? __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.

01-02-2005, 14:01	#4
English_brit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: . Posts: 393	I don't really understand how the Swiss system works, but wouldn't it mean that many teams would know they can't win the Cup before it's even started as they don't have a chance to beat any of the better teams as they won't get to play them? I like the Cup as it is although yeah it can be tricky if someone progresses a long way in their national cup, although I don't think many of us will get too far in our Cups. I'd be suprised if anyone gets past the 4th round of their Cup. (waits to be proven wrong) lol

01-02-2005, 17:58	#6
Dell19 King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grantham. Posts: 1,359	I can see the major benefit of using the Swiss style would be that there is the potential for teams to enter later or earlier so perhaps the pairings could go on throughout the season. The other benefit is what Socra said in that in this edition of the cup I played at least two games that I had no chance of winning even with most of my first team so the current cup idea doesn't give everyone a fair chance of winning. Then again I am biased towards this system as I may be entering another competition at the BDF in week 3 and that could take 4 weeks at least.

10-02-2005, 11:35	#9
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	I too am out of my cup. Ready and willing to play! Melifluous __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

10-02-2005, 18:38	#10
Dell19 King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grantham. Posts: 1,359	I may be free in two weeks after the friendly this week that has been arranged and the first round of the Newbie Cup. Potentially that could go on for 3 more weeks but I have to win to get to the following round. I also have one pre arranged friendly to play after the cup so a minimum of 3 friendly slots before I will be completely free.