2vs2vs2vs2 open thread

[anarres]

Surely seeing a strong foe and attacking him *isn't* using an alliance at all, secret or not.

I may as well say any attack on anyone by anyone else is an alliance then, because they are not attacking some other random unit?

Maybe I'm just missing something, but if you see a strong person with their army fending off an attack somewhere else you would be totally fucking CRAZY not to attack them on their exposed side. You can't say that you shouldn't attack them in that situation - it just makes no sense at all.

[akots]

Silent is OK, like 2 fight on one and the fourth player is doing nothing but sitting in his corner glad that it is not him hammered this time. Well, apparently that fourth will be third soon and will be next if I may say so. Honour in this case would mean that 3 players cannot attack the one fourth all together. Certainly, one can attack 3 others, if he is insane enough.

However, the initial idea is that Kingreno understood and what I have got is that this siutation better be avoided because that is the reason we have received 2 starting civs to play with. Otherwise, there is little sense to play with 2 civs, it could have been just a normal 4-player no-AI game.

[akots]

Actually, we should ask the mapmaker. Is the map playable with AW-type? Or not playable without reasonable trading?

If something goes wrong (like one has 4 uraniums and others have none), there is always somebody to blame for these things then.

[Stapel]

The always war option is simply not an option.

We are allowed to trade techs, lux, maps, contacts and money.

Military Alliances not (I guess).

[Kingreno]

Well, to explain why I thought initially that we would play always war (or at least no treaties/trades whatsoever)...
The special thing in this game is to have 2 civs to control. To make the perfect harmony between those civs, by choosing right, ect ect. I fear this will be totaly snowed under by diplo and treaties, something, as Akots points out, is just like a normal 4-player-no-AI-game. I am therefore still in favour of playing as close to always war as possible (cold war perhaps?), but will, as said, do what the majority wants here.
All in all, an always war scenario, where every unit not part of the alliance is fair game to attack, is still extremely fun to play I think.

[Beam]

Well, I made the map with trading as an option in mind. Which doesn't mean itsn't playable as AW but I prob would have done a couple of things different.

[Stapel]

quote:Originally posted by KingrenoI am therefore still in favour of playing as close to always war as possible.

Once again, not an option.
We should end the discussion here.
I'll explain when the game has ended.

[akots]

OK, then how about this:

1) no Military Alliances officially.
2) no MPPs officially.
3) no discussion of military operations in detail between ppls. (Certainly optional and difficult to control).
4) no trading cities neither between human ppls nor between 2 civs governed by the same ppl.
5) Allowed: Trading of techs, contacts (after Printing Press), luxuries, maps (after Navigation), resources, workers, and gold.

Question: Do we allow use of MapStat 2.8.0 or latest version?

[Stapel]

quote:Originally posted by akots

OK, then how about this:

1) no Military Alliances officially.
2) no MPPs officially.
3) no discussion of military operations in detail between ppls. (Certainly optional and difficult to control).
4) no trading cities neither between human ppls nor between 2 civs governed by the same ppl.
5) Allowed: Trading of techs, contacts (after Printing Press), luxuries, maps (after Navigation), resources, workers, and gold.

Seems fair!

quote:Question: Do we allow use of MapStat 2.8.0 or latest version?

Uh.... I never use it. Why would it benefit somone / change the gameplay.

[akots]

Well, regarding MapStat 2.8.0. It does now show how much gold the human opponent has on hand and also it shows number of cities this opponent has (not sure that which you can see or all, have to test this) as well as territory in % after you get the contact. It also sometimes shows the techs available to trade which with the help of Tech calculator gives out the info about the contacts. But on the positive side, all this info is essentially available with little thinking except for cash on hand. That is apparently the only real spoiler info IMO which MapStat has.

Whether it is useful or not, depends on size of the empire and how tedious the management of cities is. I'm using it all the time in GOTM or SG (with +100 cities close to completion, otherwise I go nuts) but did not use in PBEM except when agreed by all ppls. For now apparently, with 2-3 cities, it is not a big deal and when we reach a decent size, might be possible to consider again. Well, then, there will be a new version.