Open thread: CIV - Klammi's Pitboss - Page 12

Robi D · 08-06-2007, 09:02

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Stapel

I simply think civ is not the game where one should deceive opponents with the content of PMs or chats. Fact is that I was declared war upon, while being in longer trem peace deal negotiation.

Many of you might say: Hey, as long as no deal was formerly excepted by both sides, all is allowed. I happen to think otherwise. If you plan to go to war (and actually do so), don't send PMs with detailed long term issues. And most certainly don't send PMs that it is talking so long, beacuse of work.... That's simply cowardly treacherous. Simply say you are not interested in a peace deal.

There are other games, like diplomacy, that are perfectlty suitable for such tricks.

Civ isn't about deception, since when?

You obvioiusly haven't played too many MP games have you?

Don't worry you all my lessons are free

Stapel · 08-06-2007, 14:34

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Robi D

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Stapel

I simply think civ is not the game where one should deceive opponents with the content of PMs or chats. Fact is that I was declared war upon, while being in longer trem peace deal negotiation.

Many of you might say: Hey, as long as no deal was formerly excepted by both sides, all is allowed. I happen to think otherwise. If you plan to go to war (and actually do so), don't send PMs with detailed long term issues. And most certainly don't send PMs that it is talking so long, beacuse of work.... That's simply cowardly treacherous. Simply say you are not interested in a peace deal.

There are other games, like diplomacy, that are perfectlty suitable for such tricks.

Civ isn't about deception, since when?

You obvioiusly haven't played too many MP games have you?

Don't worry you all my lessons are free

Frankly, I have tons of MP experience. However, I usually check up front if we are going to play a high level diplo game, where deception is a feature of the game, or if there is some sort of honourable code. It is my opinion that civ is hardly suited for high-end diplomacy, mostly because the game has so many other things to offer.

Well, don't bother too much. I'm just a bit disappointed that we don't play according to what I thought were standard CDZ codes. Probably just me.

Beam · 08-06-2007, 20:26

Although I am not in this game, most players in this one also are in the Rule the World Pitboss AND are CDZ regulars (but not all) so imo it makes sense to comment about the issue Stapel rises.

One of the very standard CDZ codes always has been to play sportsmenlike in CDZ PBEMs and MPs. This includes respecting treaties to its intention and no cheating among other things. The whole idea is the player managing the game itself best gets the rewards, not the one best in backstabbing and treason. Also in my experience floating away from this may result in those minor initial issues like not or only partly paying agreed gpt for a resource for example right up to making a fake alliance and invading your partner unprepared. All of this and everything in between really spoils my fun in the game.

I think neither me or Stapel are naieve or don't know MP games played elsewhere follow these principles.

Look at it this way. Cut out the crap and look at the many in-game options Civ offers to beat your oppononents. Including in-game deception.

My 2 cents.

BCLG100 · 08-06-2007, 20:44

Its easier i find to conduct diplomacy when tech trading is turned off!

killercane · 08-06-2007, 20:45

Well I dont know the content of said discussions between Robi and Stapel, but from what I know it looks like pretty standard play, and frankly I dont see what the issue is.

Stapel is sandwiched between Robi and I, and thus in a precarious situation. He committed his units towards me, without getting a treaty with Robi on his backside. This is why I wanted to know diplomatic relations between the two and encouraged Robi to attack while I distracted Stapel. If I have a guy to my back that I dont have a peace deal with, why send all my troops to the other side of my lands? I offered Stapel peace but he was hell bent on war so now he has what he wants.

Beam · 08-06-2007, 21:14

Just to be very clear. My post is attemting to describe the CDZ code about game play and why, not to judge this specific situation.

mauer · 08-06-2007, 22:11

Killercane, Robi, and Stapel are all touching borders. Stapel did what he had to do to better his position, Killercane did what he had to do to stay in his position, and Robi did what every red blooded Amer....er...Aussie would have done. Exploit the situation to get a bigger foothold on things. Who knows, maybe a second Southern Alliance will forme....lol In short, if your touching borders at the beginning of the game....get big stick and whack other guy.

Robboo · 08-06-2007, 22:22

I dont think the code has been violated...

I never assume a deal is made till after getting a confirmation. I think thats what happened here. being in negotiations do not make a deal.

mauer · 09-06-2007, 01:48

Hey! I wanna helper too!

Robi D · 09-06-2007, 01:59

To make a few things clear, i agree that you should not cheat or break deals that were made.

I did string Stapel along a bit in discussions but did not make a deal. Personally i was quite surprised he hadn't caught on given the length of time.

There are many way to trick your opponent both through game play and diplomacy and i don't see the difference between the two.

08-06-2007, 20:26	#113
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Although I am not in this game, most players in this one also are in the Rule the World Pitboss AND are CDZ regulars (but not all) so imo it makes sense to comment about the issue Stapel rises. One of the very standard CDZ codes always has been to play sportsmenlike in CDZ PBEMs and MPs. This includes respecting treaties to its intention and no cheating among other things. The whole idea is the player managing the game itself best gets the rewards, not the one best in backstabbing and treason. Also in my experience floating away from this may result in those minor initial issues like not or only partly paying agreed gpt for a resource for example right up to making a fake alliance and invading your partner unprepared. All of this and everything in between really spoils my fun in the game. I think neither me or Stapel are naieve or don't know MP games played elsewhere follow these principles. Look at it this way. Cut out the crap and look at the many in-game options Civ offers to beat your oppononents. Including in-game deception. My 2 cents. __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

08-06-2007, 20:44	#114
BCLG100 Deity Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lahndan Posts: 6,220	Its easier i find to conduct diplomacy when tech trading is turned off! __________________ the sooner you fall behind, the more time you\'ll have to catch up! CDZ Cup Champion!!!

08-06-2007, 21:14	#116
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Just to be very clear. My post is attemting to describe the CDZ code about game play and why, not to judge this specific situation. __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

09-06-2007, 01:59	#120
Robi D King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Adelaide, Australia. Posts: 2,060	To make a few things clear, i agree that you should not cheat or break deals that were made. I did string Stapel along a bit in discussions but did not make a deal. Personally i was quite surprised he hadn't caught on given the length of time. There are many way to trick your opponent both through game play and diplomacy and i don't see the difference between the two. __________________ "I'm altering the deal, prey I don't alter it further" Darth Vader "We shall defend what is ours. We shall never surrender" --Kosovo is Serbia!

08-06-2007, 20:45	#115
killercane Prince Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 959	Well I dont know the content of said discussions between Robi and Stapel, but from what I know it looks like pretty standard play, and frankly I dont see what the issue is. Stapel is sandwiched between Robi and I, and thus in a precarious situation. He committed his units towards me, without getting a treaty with Robi on his backside. This is why I wanted to know diplomatic relations between the two and encouraged Robi to attack while I distracted Stapel. If I have a guy to my back that I dont have a peace deal with, why send all my troops to the other side of my lands? I offered Stapel peace but he was hell bent on war so now he has what he wants.

08-06-2007, 22:11	#117
mauer King Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,033	Killercane, Robi, and Stapel are all touching borders. Stapel did what he had to do to better his position, Killercane did what he had to do to stay in his position, and Robi did what every red blooded Amer....er...Aussie would have done. Exploit the situation to get a bigger foothold on things. Who knows, maybe a second Southern Alliance will forme....lol In short, if your touching borders at the beginning of the game....get big stick and whack other guy.

08-06-2007, 22:22	#118
Robboo King Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cajun Country. Posts: 2,002	I dont think the code has been violated... I never assume a deal is made till after getting a confirmation. I think thats what happened here. being in negotiations do not make a deal.

09-06-2007, 01:48	#119
mauer King Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,033	Hey! I wanna helper too!