Mare Nostrum - Open Thread

[anarres]

Sorry, but I also deliberately didn't trade on turn 0 and would like Stapel to replay it. Sorry!!!

Anyway...

MAs? I'm afraid we need to AGREE a rule NOW! We can't just start playing if we are all gonna do different things. My vote is no MA's with AI's against humans, but I am easy either way.

[Socrates]

OK, let's have a firm personal opinion...

- I'm for no trade with AIs (none at all, just say hello) on turn 0. Trades with AIs are allowed starting with my turn 1 (so yes I get an advantage). Trades with humans are allowed on turn 0, we just need time to do the quick diplo on MSN or PM or mail. BW will be needed by both anar and Stapel, not me since I'm supposed not to talk to him.

- I'm for no MAs with AIs against humans. MAs with AIs against AIs are allowed, and so are MAs with humans against AIs.

- Therefore I'd like Stapel to replay his turn considering this, if we all agree on that.

This was just my opinion. Others rules were proposed, if no one objects them, they'll be validated once we've all played turn 0 (see 1st post in this thread !).

[Stapel]

replayed and sent to BW.

My stance on MA agaisnt humans:
A big nono!

[Black_Waltz]

Yep. I agree. No MA against humans.

[Socrates]

akots, could you remind us of the tweaks that you made in this biq ? Testing it with Rome on turn 0 at 100% science on Deity, I see that corruption is less important in your biq than in the initial conquest biq, confirm ?

The initial biq gives : 47 beakers per turn * 24 turns to go for Literature = around 1128 beakers total.

Your biq gives : 61 beakers per turn * 12 turns to go = around 732 beakers total.

Do you confirm these figures ? Why are techs also less expensive in your biq ? This make a double-move towards faster research...

So that and other possible tweaks I'd like to know, just to have better information. Thanks a lot mate.

[akots]

Make sure you have started the random game on a large map with appropriate settings before you start the game in both cases. Please also note that multiplayer biq is different from single player biq and rather substantially. I have not edited anything regarding tech costs as well just set the difficulty to Deity. And yes, in MP indeed tech costs are somewhat lower (another scenario bug or feature?). I guess under the "initial biq" you mean SP scenario? I have never compared them step-by-step.

[Socrates]

I loaded a random game on a large map first, before opening all the different biqs, and reloaded a new one inbetween each test.

I observed the same in both the initial biq in solo and yours biq in solo (in fact : 47 * 20 = 940 total). The initial biq in MP gives 61 * 5 = 305 total, whereas yours biq in MP gives 61 * 9 = 549 total.

The initial biq in MP is broken, since it seems to be on Regent. But yours should be on Deity, and yet gives a different result. There is a bug in there, that's for sure.

And I don't know why I got other results in my previous post.

Also an amusing thing : load the scenario (whatever version) as Rome, and zoom in the city screen. Try different combinations of tiles, and see what you get in total for science at 100% : the result is different from what you can count tile by tile ! Micromanagement is fucked up in this scenario, I've already stated it somewhere.

BreakAway Games did an awful job with these conquests, though I think Firaxis can share the fault with them. And on the whole, C3C may be more broken per se than Vanilla or PTW. But let's play this game.

[akots]

For comparison purposes it might be better to set slider 100% to tax and compare the numbers then. But make sure the citizens are working the same tiles. It might be some improvements are different. Also, corruption might be calculated differently since the biq's come from different versions of the editor.

Regarding micromanagement : shields are OK, this I have checked. But trades/beakers can be screwed. And tech costs have been changed in patch 1.22 somewhat. Since this scenario was not patched iirc (not sure), it might be glitchy.

[Socrates]

Mmmmh, a quick check at 100% gold in the city of Rome was OK, knowing there is a marketplace there. Science is messy, but you're right, it must come from patches and different editors and whatnot.

But in my game in solo (you know, the one I lost ), I experienced bugs of this type for shields and food as well. Start with a combination of tiles in a certain city (many were bugged, like Messana, Carthage...), and then take a citizen away from a certain tile, and sometimes you'll get more shields or food or whatever... Did it work that way in PTW ?

BreakAway Games, boooooooooooooooooooooooooooh.

[anarres]

krys - there are ROUNDING bugs when the corruption slider is not set to 100% in the editor. RoR has corruption slider set to 70% and as such some of the numbers are wrong when you move citizens around.