C3C 1.15 BETA ;) - Page 2

ProPain · 13-01-2004, 13:15

I'm no expert on the FP issue, but FP city always had corruption (because the rank was calculated from RP only?? Because FP had corruption cap of x%?? I dont know) So my guess is they might have adjusted this a bit but not to dramatically.

col · 13-01-2004, 13:16

Straight from the horses mouth :

This is how corruption works now.

There are two kinds of corruption, distance-based and empire-based.

Distance-based is determined by the distance from the city to the nearest seat of government (Palace, FP, SPH). The farther the distance, the higher the corruption.

Empire-based is determined by the "city rank," which is calculated by assigning a number to each city in progression from the capital outward. The higher the city rank, the higher the corruption. Further, if the city rank is higher than the "optimal city number" (OCN) - which is map-dependent - the rate at which empire-based corruption goes up increases.

These two forms of corruption are additive. Thus, if a city has total corruption, it might be from high distance-based corruption, high empire-based corruption, or medium amounts of both.

Building a Forbidden Palace (or SPH) does two things. First, it provides a new center for cities to measure their distance-based corruption. Second, it increases the OCN by 3/8 (was 1/4 in 1.13).

This method is how corruption was originally intended to work. 1.12 and 1.13 use this model (the main difference between the two being the FP increase in OCN). Civ3 and PtW did not quite follow this model because there was a bug involving how city rank was calculated.

This "new" model allows for two cores, with the second being weaker than the first. One interesting aspect of this system is that it doesn't matter how far the two cores are apart from each other as distance-corruption is calculated from the FP and city rank is an absolute number (9th city, 10th city, etc.). I mention this only to show that building one's FP on a new continent can be very worthwhile.

Stapel · 13-01-2004, 13:49

Thanks Col! That is one piece of clearly explained stuff! The last weeks I have read an awful lot about corruption, what should change, what should stay, etc. I even for the first time have intensively studied the 'do you think you understand corruption' thread.

Your post, straight form the mouth of the horse, was one of the finest on the subject.
I have one question though:

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by col

This "new" model allows for two cores, with the second being weaker than the first. One interesting aspect of this system is that it doesn't matter how far the two cores are apart from each other as distance-corruption is calculated from the FP and city rank is an absolute number (9th city, 10th city, etc.). I mention this only to show that building one's FP on a new continent can be very worthwhile.

But it does matter how far they are from eachother!

When both core are far from eachother, there will probably be many more cities in between!

Say I have 2 cores, both with 10 cities. This will mean that my FP city has rank 11, the nearest to FP rank 12, and so on until 20.

When I have 10 cities in between (cities that are far away from any palace), it will mean that my FP core will be ranked 21 - 30.

Since a city will only be really productive if both the rank AND the distance will be fair, we have something to think of when planning our city spots!

I don't think this is a major item, but stating that the distance between the cores doesn't matter, isn't quite true.

Imagine having two cores first, and than fill up the space between them with cities. This will increase corruption on the FP-core cities.

Plux · 13-01-2004, 13:50

Wow, thanks Col. Very clear explanation.

I wonder what the 1.15 corruption exploit will look like

.

Aggie · 13-01-2004, 14:05

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Plux

I wonder what the 1.15 corruption exploit will look like

.

Indeed

Still, I'm happy with the intentions and therefore also with 1.15 !

Stapel · 13-01-2004, 14:14

I have a question!

What does a courthouse do?
Fight distance corruption, fight rank corruption? or fight it in general?

Grille · 13-01-2004, 15:02

Stapel:
Courthouse/policestation (and WLTKD as similar factor for waste) *used* to fight both distance and rank-related corruption. I assume this has never changed.(shrug)

Quote:

quote:
Building a Forbidden Palace (or SPH) does two things.
First, it provides a new center for cities to measure their distance-based corruption. Second, it increases the OCN by 3/8 (was 1/4 in 1.13).

I thought it was even 50% in 1.13, but that's possibly due to poor wording (or reading...

).

Do ultra-corrupt cities still peak at 90%?

Aggie · 13-01-2004, 16:27

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by anarres

Can someone please test the PBEM-SP load bug in this patch? I am at work and can't do it yet.

Tavis is persoanlly aware of this bug now and promised to fix it, the only question is if we told him in time for this patch (which is unlikely, but I'd like to know).

No it's not fixed.

col · 13-01-2004, 16:28

It wasnt my explanation. I should have said - thats Soren's explanation about how corruption is meant to work.

I think we will all need to focus much more on the OCN and we will have to really think about the effects of building one more city.

Skyfish · 13-01-2004, 18:04

Quote:

quote:It wasnt my explanation. I should have said - thats Soren's explanation

Thats why it was such a good one

13-01-2004, 13:15	#11
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	I'm no expert on the FP issue, but FP city always had corruption (because the rank was calculated from RP only?? Because FP had corruption cap of x%?? I dont know) So my guess is they might have adjusted this a bit but not to dramatically. __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

13-01-2004, 13:16	#12
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	Straight from the horses mouth : This is how corruption works now. There are two kinds of corruption, distance-based and empire-based. Distance-based is determined by the distance from the city to the nearest seat of government (Palace, FP, SPH). The farther the distance, the higher the corruption. Empire-based is determined by the "city rank," which is calculated by assigning a number to each city in progression from the capital outward. The higher the city rank, the higher the corruption. Further, if the city rank is higher than the "optimal city number" (OCN) - which is map-dependent - the rate at which empire-based corruption goes up increases. These two forms of corruption are additive. Thus, if a city has total corruption, it might be from high distance-based corruption, high empire-based corruption, or medium amounts of both. Building a Forbidden Palace (or SPH) does two things. First, it provides a new center for cities to measure their distance-based corruption. Second, it increases the OCN by 3/8 (was 1/4 in 1.13). This method is how corruption was originally intended to work. 1.12 and 1.13 use this model (the main difference between the two being the FP increase in OCN). Civ3 and PtW did not quite follow this model because there was a bug involving how city rank was calculated. This "new" model allows for two cores, with the second being weaker than the first. One interesting aspect of this system is that it doesn't matter how far the two cores are apart from each other as distance-corruption is calculated from the FP and city rank is an absolute number (9th city, 10th city, etc.). I mention this only to show that building one's FP on a new continent can be very worthwhile. __________________ I can't be arsed.

13-01-2004, 14:14	#16
Stapel Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,196	I have a question! What does a courthouse do? Fight distance corruption, fight rank corruption? or fight it in general? __________________ Vrooooooooooommmmmm Stapel doesn't like cricket

13-01-2004, 16:28	#19
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	It wasnt my explanation. I should have said - thats Soren's explanation about how corruption is meant to work. I think we will all need to focus much more on the OCN and we will have to really think about the effects of building one more city. __________________ I can't be arsed.

13-01-2004, 13:50	#14
Plux King Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,213	Wow, thanks Col. Very clear explanation. I wonder what the 1.15 corruption exploit will look like .