SGOTM6 - Screenshots and Turnlogs - Page 49

col · 04-05-2005, 10:12

Hmm - it was perfectly possible to have balanced the economy with tax collectors and wealth but nothing in the GOTM rules said we couldnt run deficit; I checked.

col · 04-05-2005, 16:51

Ok - I've finished this one off.

Load the save.

Set everything to Wealth. Now about 90 gpt down. .
Tax increases all round.

Improved services for all with 70 tax collectors and we are now running at a profit.

Culture at 88594. Press return

1. 1280ad The Brits retake a city from the nastly vikings. We are noe +12 gpt. Culture is 90598

2. 1285ad The Brit city flips to us. The vikings commit unspeakable atrocities on our army with their cavalry. Wea re at +20 gpt. Culture is 92602

3. 1290AD. Vikings burn a jungle city then head for home. +17 gpt. Culture is 94604

4. 1295AD Vikings make peace with English.- and with us. +21gpt Culture is 96606

5. 1300aD +21GPT culture is 98608.

6. 1305 We win by culture. 113 hours, 55 minutes and 21 seconds..... Save game. Upload.

akots · 04-05-2005, 18:09

Good game, finally finished!

Thanks everyone for playing it!

We are solid second which is absolutely not bad at all!

Melifluous · 04-05-2005, 19:08

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

First thing I did was see where we can make more money. If we are going to build more culture we need more money for upkeep! Or....we can just forget about that and lose a random worker and building every turn. Is that allowed?

How bad is the economy? Well, at 100% tax we lose 174 gpt now, increasing with 20 gpt per turn. The AI has no money ATM so I started....selling non cultural improvements! I SOLD all Baracks, for 30 gpt and a one time 150 gold. We will not be going to war anyway. I also sold several harbours that were not vital to their cities.

This was the first indication that the money was gonna be an issue.

I did nothing to rectify the situation as I saw no way of getting around it.

Sorry Col if I passed you the shitty end of the stick

Good game all.

SGOTM7??

Melifluous

akots · 04-05-2005, 20:16

I have browsed through the Offa's thread already. Did not yet have a chance to look through Jeffelammar's team log though.

Indeed, we were beaten by a rather close margin. And certainly, we could have been first in this game, a matter of few issues which otherwise might seem not so important.

A few conclusions:

1) We waited way too long to build FP before starting assault on China. That was a very bad move. The benefit from FP was relatively small and did not help us in the long run. Certainly, we managed to gain some production and gold but it was a very minor thing. Location of FP was rather good indeed. Thus, we lost 10 turns early in the game and this moved our finish date probably 15 or 20 turns forward which makes for a difference with team Offa. Some are being too greedy and too attached to the multiplayer style. With AI, it is better to be a bit foolhardy. Well, I'm suffering from this as well since I cannot get a good COTM result recently while doing rather well with GOTMs.

2) Optimal handling of settler factories would have enabled us to do better. Actually, IMHO, we did better in the beginning. And much better. Seems like they have built capital in the wrong place whereas we did it right and expanded almost optimally.

3) They went straight for Babylon to get the Pyramids and did not attack Mongols and Carthage. France finishing the Pyramids made our life a bit more complicated. We were certainly able to get there sooner and wasted about 10 turns. Also, we were idling some 15+ settler for about 10 turns which did not do us any good as well. It was due to confusion, might do some work on improving the understanding of each others intentions.

4) There is really very few important things that were screwed. Certainly, Japan should have been attacked before Mongols. By the time we got there, they had pikes and were really pain in the ass to handle. While Mongols stayed backwards and had a poor terrain.

5) Carthage was actualy a rather good piece of land to grab but it was possible to wait with it because they would not have had better defenders with Feudalism.

6) Seems that Indian/Iro jungle was a major pain for all teams.

7) Even thinking and discussing about ToA was a bad idea. We did not need it and the benefit was very insubstantial for the whole game.

8) Need to grasp the general picture better and discuss more global issues.

9) Team Offa will be split for the next SGOTM. Long overdue imo. They are too strong.

These are my impressions, nothing more than that.

col · 04-05-2005, 20:51

Strategically, looking back, I think we waited too long before attacking, that we overcommitted forces west and should have split our army. We had enough to have attcked Japan earlier. I usually attack too early and run out of steam but I felt this time we actually had a larger army than we needed although this was only apparent too late.

The position of thePyramids was critical in a whipping game. If it all came down to 10 or so turns then its easy in hindsight to see where we might have been faster - but given the variety of styles and playing strengths on the team, and that it was our first attempt at an SG, we didnt do too shabbily.

Thanks everyone.

jeffelammar · 05-05-2005, 02:40

Very nicely done.

The Pyramids were key... I think we could have beat you by a ways if we had taken them.

Like you guys, our team is certain that they could have done quite a bit better. I kind of hope for another game like this one to try out what we learned here.

akots · 05-05-2005, 17:57

For Anarres: Seems that after the final result is declared, it is quite possible to post an announcement on the front page. Second place is not bad, absolutely!

Whomp · 05-05-2005, 18:34

Congrats Team CDZ Team! 2nd place is awesome accomplishment! Offa was stacked and won 4 straight. They will likely be loaded again since Northern Pike just recruited Handy. I say you guys are the team to beat. Though Team Jeffelammar will look to shock the world again! [

]

Jeff is right we screwed up the pyramids pretty bad. Personally I didn't learn how to rush a pop 5 for 80 shields till the end so that prolly extended our time by a couple turns too.

I am a much better warrior than culture maker so hopefully I will make an impact this time.

mad-bax · 06-05-2005, 22:41

In retrospect I think it should have been a straight deity game on a smaller map. Originally this was the case with it set up as Babylon on a standard 5000 tile board. Unfortunately there was too much variation in where the pyramids went and it would have been a lottery. Also Babylon deity games have been played before.

It was interesting to see how many teams were within a few turns of the "Jason best" date. Considering the entire game was played in despotism (with the tile penalty) it does lead me to wonder whether whipping is actually more efficient than cash rushing.

I am in a little difficulty now as to what to suggest for future games. It appears that 100K games are tedious, and also AW games too. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

04-05-2005, 10:12	#481
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	Hmm - it was perfectly possible to have balanced the economy with tax collectors and wealth but nothing in the GOTM rules said we couldnt run deficit; I checked. __________________ I can't be arsed.

04-05-2005, 16:51	#482
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	Ok - I've finished this one off. Load the save. Set everything to Wealth. Now about 90 gpt down. . Tax increases all round. Improved services for all with 70 tax collectors and we are now running at a profit. Culture at 88594. Press return 1. 1280ad The Brits retake a city from the nastly vikings. We are noe +12 gpt. Culture is 90598 2. 1285ad The Brit city flips to us. The vikings commit unspeakable atrocities on our army with their cavalry. Wea re at +20 gpt. Culture is 92602 3. 1290AD. Vikings burn a jungle city then head for home. +17 gpt. Culture is 94604 4. 1295AD Vikings make peace with English.- and with us. +21gpt Culture is 96606 5. 1300aD +21GPT culture is 98608. 6. 1305 We win by culture. 113 hours, 55 minutes and 21 seconds..... Save game. Upload. __________________ I can't be arsed.

04-05-2005, 18:09	#483
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	Good game, finally finished! Thanks everyone for playing it! We are solid second which is absolutely not bad at all! __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

04-05-2005, 20:16	#485
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	I have browsed through the Offa's thread already. Did not yet have a chance to look through Jeffelammar's team log though. Indeed, we were beaten by a rather close margin. And certainly, we could have been first in this game, a matter of few issues which otherwise might seem not so important. A few conclusions: 1) We waited way too long to build FP before starting assault on China. That was a very bad move. The benefit from FP was relatively small and did not help us in the long run. Certainly, we managed to gain some production and gold but it was a very minor thing. Location of FP was rather good indeed. Thus, we lost 10 turns early in the game and this moved our finish date probably 15 or 20 turns forward which makes for a difference with team Offa. Some are being too greedy and too attached to the multiplayer style. With AI, it is better to be a bit foolhardy. Well, I'm suffering from this as well since I cannot get a good COTM result recently while doing rather well with GOTMs. 2) Optimal handling of settler factories would have enabled us to do better. Actually, IMHO, we did better in the beginning. And much better. Seems like they have built capital in the wrong place whereas we did it right and expanded almost optimally. 3) They went straight for Babylon to get the Pyramids and did not attack Mongols and Carthage. France finishing the Pyramids made our life a bit more complicated. We were certainly able to get there sooner and wasted about 10 turns. Also, we were idling some 15+ settler for about 10 turns which did not do us any good as well. It was due to confusion, might do some work on improving the understanding of each others intentions. 4) There is really very few important things that were screwed. Certainly, Japan should have been attacked before Mongols. By the time we got there, they had pikes and were really pain in the ass to handle. While Mongols stayed backwards and had a poor terrain. 5) Carthage was actualy a rather good piece of land to grab but it was possible to wait with it because they would not have had better defenders with Feudalism. 6) Seems that Indian/Iro jungle was a major pain for all teams. 7) Even thinking and discussing about ToA was a bad idea. We did not need it and the benefit was very insubstantial for the whole game. 8) Need to grasp the general picture better and discuss more global issues. 9) Team Offa will be split for the next SGOTM. Long overdue imo. They are too strong. These are my impressions, nothing more than that. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

04-05-2005, 20:51	#486
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	Strategically, looking back, I think we waited too long before attacking, that we overcommitted forces west and should have split our army. We had enough to have attcked Japan earlier. I usually attack too early and run out of steam but I felt this time we actually had a larger army than we needed although this was only apparent too late. The position of thePyramids was critical in a whipping game. If it all came down to 10 or so turns then its easy in hindsight to see where we might have been faster - but given the variety of styles and playing strengths on the team, and that it was our first attempt at an SG, we didnt do too shabbily. Thanks everyone. __________________ I can't be arsed.

05-05-2005, 02:40	#487
jeffelammar Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Springs. Posts: 3	Very nicely done. The Pyramids were key... I think we could have beat you by a ways if we had taken them. Like you guys, our team is certain that they could have done quite a bit better. I kind of hope for another game like this one to try out what we learned here.

05-05-2005, 17:57	#488
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	For Anarres: Seems that after the final result is declared, it is quite possible to post an announcement on the front page. Second place is not bad, absolutely! __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

05-05-2005, 18:34	#489
Whomp King Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago. Posts: 2,388	Congrats Team CDZ Team! 2nd place is awesome accomplishment! Offa was stacked and won 4 straight. They will likely be loaded again since Northern Pike just recruited Handy. I say you guys are the team to beat. Though Team Jeffelammar will look to shock the world again! [] Jeff is right we screwed up the pyramids pretty bad. Personally I didn't learn how to rush a pop 5 for 80 shields till the end so that prolly extended our time by a couple turns too. I am a much better warrior than culture maker so hopefully I will make an impact this time. __________________ If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it.--W. C. Fields

06-05-2005, 22:41	#490
mad-bax Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: . Posts: 10	In retrospect I think it should have been a straight deity game on a smaller map. Originally this was the case with it set up as Babylon on a standard 5000 tile board. Unfortunately there was too much variation in where the pyramids went and it would have been a lottery. Also Babylon deity games have been played before. It was interesting to see how many teams were within a few turns of the "Jason best" date. Considering the entire game was played in despotism (with the tile penalty) it does lead me to wonder whether whipping is actually more efficient than cash rushing. I am in a little difficulty now as to what to suggest for future games. It appears that 100K games are tedious, and also AW games too. Any suggestions would be welcomed.