CDZ Cup 7th Edition Discussions - Page 2

Kemal · 13-10-2005, 16:57

We're now at 24 teams, but since bed head has already expressed his interest in joining, and we all expect Schip to participate as well, it's time to start thinking about what format we are going to use to accomodate for more than 24 teams playing, with atm 26 being the most likely number of teams in the cup (though it could become more, for example a very strong contender from Estonia iirc expressed interest in the fed forum, but is likely still in the national cup at that time).

When aiming to start at the week 7 league rounds, we have 9 full rounds to play during which we want everyone to have a friendly to play each week. I also think we should aim at at least 2 KO rounds, but more might be possible.

Should we perhaps create a double league system, where teams play each other in smaller leagues at first to qualify for a group 2 round of league systems, where groups are ordered by having one half consisting of group 1 winners and runners up, and the other half of the 3rd and 4th placed teams that play for the bottom half of the places (with of course still the KO rounds at the end of the cup)?
That would at least make it somewhat easier to get everyone to play each other at least once in a given group, and still ensure some diversity concerning who you end up playing against (or so I hope, haven't exactly thought this out yet).

edit: to clarify a little, that would mean (for example!) create 8 groups of 4 teams at first to play 3 games, then create 8 more groups to play 3 times again, where groups 1/4 would be winners and 2nd placed teams, and groups 5/8 3rd and 4th placed teams from group rounds 1, then followed by 3 K.O. rounds to decide the final rankings.

We could of course also create groups of larger sizes, but that would mean each team would not be able to play all other teams in that group, while still being classified in that same group with those teams not played against. Not an ideal situation I personally think, which hopefully can be avoided.

Anyone with some brilliant solutions to all this is very welcome to post (outstanding ideas accepted as well, of course...

)

Shabbaman · 13-10-2005, 17:04

I have no idea, but I'd prefer not playing the same teams twice.

Kingreno · 13-10-2005, 17:19

if we can get to 28 teams it's (a lot) easier.

bed_head7 · 13-10-2005, 21:51

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

We're now at 24 teams, but since bed head has already expressed his interest in joining,

Yes, as long as my joining doesn't make the planning more difficult. I was throwing myself out there so that figuring out a format would be easier, as I am happy going either way.

arne1 · 13-10-2005, 22:07

Since I am just a novice you will have to setle for a good idea.
With 26 teams I suggest you make 3 groups of 6 and 1 of 8. And start the knock out phase earlier for the groups of 6 and let the group of 8 "flow in" (pardon my poor English) later.
Let A be the groep of 8 and B, C and D the groups of 6. well the first 5 matches are obvious and the first seven for group A are also obvious. The numbers 1 and 2 and the two best numbers 3 qualify for the highest knock-out schedule. This would lead to something like this:
week 6:

B1 - C3 (= 1)
C1 - D3 (= 2)
D1 - B2 (= 3)
C2 - D2 (= 4)

D3 - B5 (= 5)
B4 - C5 (= 6)
C4 - D4 (= 7)

D5 - B6 (= 8)
C6 - D6 (= 9)
Week 7
winners:
W1 - W4 (E)
W2 - W3 (F)
loosers:
L1 - L4 (G)
L2 - L3 (H)
winners + closest looser (of matches 5, 6 and 7):
W5 - W7 (I)
W6 - L5 (J)
Loosers:
L6 - L7 (K)

W8 - W9 (L)
L8 - L9 (M)
week 8: (Group A of 8 flows in)
A1 - WE (10)
A2 - WF (11)
Loosers E and F, best winner G and H and A3
LE - A3 (12)
LF - WG (13)
Worst winner G and H, loosers G and H and A4
WH - A4 (14)
LG - LH (15)
Winners I and J, closest looser I and J and A5
WI - A5 (16)
WJ - LI (17)
Worst looser I and J, winner and looser K and A6
LJ - LK (18)
WK - A6 (19)
Winner and looser L, winner M and A7
WL - A7 (20)
LL - WM (21)
Dubble header looser M versus A8
LM - A8 (22)
Week 9:
Final:
W10 - W11

L10 - L11
W12 - W13
L12 - L13
W14 - W15
L14 - L15
W16 - W17
L16 - L17
W18 - W19
L18 - L19
W20 - W21
L20 - L21
and the dubble header:
W22 - L22

thei is only a possibility which can be shifted with. I always assumed the first match to have the best looser. But of course this could be different.
But as Kingreno stated allready 28 would be easier.

akots · 13-10-2005, 22:34

I think we can try the Swiss system this time or may be next cup edition. It had been discussed previously and many people were willing to give it a go.

arne1 · 14-10-2005, 18:25

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by akots

I think we can try the Swiss system this time or may be next cup edition. It had been discussed previously and many people were willing to give it a go.

The swiss system? Is that wer you play the team that is closest to to you in the ranking thtat you have not played yet?

Shabbaman · 20-10-2005, 10:21

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

When aiming to start at the week 7 league rounds, we have 9 full rounds to play during which we want everyone to have a friendly to play each week.

So, for my reassurance, we're starting next wednesday?

Kemal · 20-10-2005, 11:16

From next wednesday on, people will need to start arranging their matches yes, and in 13-14 days, the first round of the CDZ Cup will be played, after the 7th league round has taken place.

The fixture list should be available at sunday latest, if the amount of participants stays the same during this last day that registration is open, that is.

Shabbaman · 20-10-2005, 12:09

Ok, so no cup coming wednesday. Perhaps it's a good idea to release a newsletter with this news in bold text, for those incompetent like me

13-10-2005, 16:57	#11
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	We're now at 24 teams, but since bed head has already expressed his interest in joining, and we all expect Schip to participate as well, it's time to start thinking about what format we are going to use to accomodate for more than 24 teams playing, with atm 26 being the most likely number of teams in the cup (though it could become more, for example a very strong contender from Estonia iirc expressed interest in the fed forum, but is likely still in the national cup at that time). When aiming to start at the week 7 league rounds, we have 9 full rounds to play during which we want everyone to have a friendly to play each week. I also think we should aim at at least 2 KO rounds, but more might be possible. Should we perhaps create a double league system, where teams play each other in smaller leagues at first to qualify for a group 2 round of league systems, where groups are ordered by having one half consisting of group 1 winners and runners up, and the other half of the 3rd and 4th placed teams that play for the bottom half of the places (with of course still the KO rounds at the end of the cup)? That would at least make it somewhat easier to get everyone to play each other at least once in a given group, and still ensure some diversity concerning who you end up playing against (or so I hope, haven't exactly thought this out yet). edit: to clarify a little, that would mean (for example!) create 8 groups of 4 teams at first to play 3 games, then create 8 more groups to play 3 times again, where groups 1/4 would be winners and 2nd placed teams, and groups 5/8 3rd and 4th placed teams from group rounds 1, then followed by 3 K.O. rounds to decide the final rankings. We could of course also create groups of larger sizes, but that would mean each team would not be able to play all other teams in that group, while still being classified in that same group with those teams not played against. Not an ideal situation I personally think, which hopefully can be avoided. Anyone with some brilliant solutions to all this is very welcome to post (outstanding ideas accepted as well, of course... ) __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

13-10-2005, 17:04	#12
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	I have no idea, but I'd prefer not playing the same teams twice. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

13-10-2005, 17:19	#13
Kingreno Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,270	if we can get to 28 teams it's (a lot) easier. __________________ Go ahead punk. Make my day.

13-10-2005, 22:07	#15
arne1 King Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 1,455	Since I am just a novice you will have to setle for a good idea. With 26 teams I suggest you make 3 groups of 6 and 1 of 8. And start the knock out phase earlier for the groups of 6 and let the group of 8 "flow in" (pardon my poor English) later. Let A be the groep of 8 and B, C and D the groups of 6. well the first 5 matches are obvious and the first seven for group A are also obvious. The numbers 1 and 2 and the two best numbers 3 qualify for the highest knock-out schedule. This would lead to something like this: week 6: B1 - C3 (= 1) C1 - D3 (= 2) D1 - B2 (= 3) C2 - D2 (= 4) D3 - B5 (= 5) B4 - C5 (= 6) C4 - D4 (= 7) D5 - B6 (= 8) C6 - D6 (= 9) Week 7 winners: W1 - W4 (E) W2 - W3 (F) loosers: L1 - L4 (G) L2 - L3 (H) winners + closest looser (of matches 5, 6 and 7): W5 - W7 (I) W6 - L5 (J) Loosers: L6 - L7 (K) W8 - W9 (L) L8 - L9 (M) week 8: (Group A of 8 flows in) A1 - WE (10) A2 - WF (11) Loosers E and F, best winner G and H and A3 LE - A3 (12) LF - WG (13) Worst winner G and H, loosers G and H and A4 WH - A4 (14) LG - LH (15) Winners I and J, closest looser I and J and A5 WI - A5 (16) WJ - LI (17) Worst looser I and J, winner and looser K and A6 LJ - LK (18) WK - A6 (19) Winner and looser L, winner M and A7 WL - A7 (20) LL - WM (21) Dubble header looser M versus A8 LM - A8 (22) Week 9: Final: W10 - W11 L10 - L11 W12 - W13 L12 - L13 W14 - W15 L14 - L15 W16 - W17 L16 - L17 W18 - W19 L18 - L19 W20 - W21 L20 - L21 and the dubble header: W22 - L22 thei is only a possibility which can be shifted with. I always assumed the first match to have the best looser. But of course this could be different. But as Kingreno stated allready 28 would be easier. __________________ expect the worst than everything is a bonus

13-10-2005, 22:34	#16
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	I think we can try the Swiss system this time or may be next cup edition. It had been discussed previously and many people were willing to give it a go. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

20-10-2005, 11:16	#19
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	From next wednesday on, people will need to start arranging their matches yes, and in 13-14 days, the first round of the CDZ Cup will be played, after the 7th league round has taken place. The fixture list should be available at sunday latest, if the amount of participants stays the same during this last day that registration is open, that is. __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

20-10-2005, 12:09	#20
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	Ok, so no cup coming wednesday. Perhaps it's a good idea to release a newsletter with this news in bold text, for those incompetent like me __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"