*WOA's Spoiler* vs gozpel - Page 4

WackenOpenAir · 28-02-2006, 19:36

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

What about the second settler? How much longer will it take to get the 2nd settler with the ealrier 1st settler? or is that not a concern?

For the first settler it is not a concern at all, it must be build before the granary. For later settlers i am not sure yet when i will build a granary.
Only when the production exceeds the food for settler production in the city so that after the granary, it can catch up the lost time.

A new city is worth 3fpt.
A granary helps me from 4 to 6.7 fpt for a net 2.7fpt.
And a granary takes longer to build.

Note that while a granary will make the 3th 4th etc settler come earlier, that first new city will also be producing food and thus new settlers and workers that now come earlier.
In this stage of the game, the only matter is optimizing your total fpt. (well, in multiplayer, commerce also has a somewhat increased significance, but i decided that while increased it still is very insignificant compared to food since Gozpel wont be doing the full rep slingshot anyway)

I have not done this in an excel sheet because this is a very clear case of settler before granary. I may calculate it more precise for later settlers when the time is there and when i know exactly when and where i am gonna settle my next cities. Excel only decided yet that i will build only 1 warrior.

WackenOpenAir · 07-03-2006, 02:33

It is turn 18 (picture one turn old) now and the first settler is built.

While i could not see them, i had planned to settle on both the BG's you can see in the Northwest on the river. After moving the Settler to its current position and discovering the BG, i had to change plans. Unfortunately this costs me a wasted turn and it makes my city placement somwhat tight. As you can see the 2 red dots.
The bleu dot is an obvious one.

The black dots are the only real option to have the cities in that region on rivers and have their borders meet up to cover the luxuries in between them without cultural expansion. Unfortunately, that again leads to a tight city placement. Without the closest black city, i could place the Orange and White city more optimal.

I will decide on these spots after settling the red and bleu ones and hopefully having scouted the area a bit more.

121.95*KB

My scouting warrior just spotted chinese border, i should meet them next turn or so. Unfortunately, an AI without alphabet.

Tubby Rower · 07-03-2006, 02:46

I never thought of the maximizing food other than the obvious. I've never really thought of the granary as "producing" food. Thanks for that insight

grs · 07-03-2006, 10:30

While I am definately not the expert here, I learned that tight placement seems to be a good thing in Civ3 PBEM games. Three tiles and even closer often is a good choice.

Tubby Rower · 07-03-2006, 12:42

From what I've gathered (and I'm no expert either), tight city placement gets production up, but once the nut is cracked, the rest of the cities are easily taken.

Can anyone confirm?

WackenOpenAir · 07-03-2006, 13:42

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

From what I've gathered (and I'm no expert either), tight city placement gets production up, but once the nut is cracked, the rest of the cities are easily taken.

Can anyone confirm?

I am not thinking about that.
I don't know what you guys normally do in PBEM's, but i can tell you, i won't be building many defenders. (If any at all)
When i see an incomming Gozpel attack, i will make sure i have fast moving attackers ready to take them down before they hit my cities.

Fast moving units and perfect infrastructure should be the goal in multiplayer. Defending otherwise gives your opponent too much opportunities.

Furthermore, the loss of one core city is very bad. I do not plan with rescue plans for such scenario's, i rather plan to prevent such scenario's.

This particular game should be a pretty long game due to travel distance and AI interference. I want my cities to grow to size 10-12.

WackenOpenAir · 09-03-2006, 00:30

It is now turn 27.
Up till now, i was getting more and more worried about my 0 research plan since i did not meet any AI for a long time.
China had Alphabet, but would not sell it. I now met my second AI, Scandinavia, and they have it as well.
Alphabet research would have costed 200 beakers, and i have 174 gold in cash now. I can buy alphabet for 164g + 3gpt. So, not much is lost yet, buying it now comes it roughly the same cost as self research.

I will however wait a little more before buying it. As my tresury increases, they will demand less gpt from me, so waiting a few more turns should not cost me time on my Writing research. And who knows, hopefully i will meet a 3th civ in those few turns, making the trade a lot cheaper.

The second settler has been made last turn and moved to the second red dot. The first red dot already produced a warrior who is scouting the north.

Update turn 31:
I have met 2 more AI's and bought Alphabet for 178 gold.
So i took a chance hoping to get some trades for basically free alphabet, but i ended up having no real advantage. The price is almost the same, and i got it a turn later than research would have. The risk now is the gold ending up in Gozpel's pockets. Let's hope that will not happen.

My scouting warriors have found a cow, but it is too far to settle for now.
Gozpel is ahead on me in score, but that does not mean i am at a disadvantage since i have a very tight city placement and thus not a lot of territory.

Tubby Rower · 09-03-2006, 02:19

So are you not researching at all? It appears as though waiting alpha is going to leave you a little behind.

WackenOpenAir · 09-03-2006, 02:27

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

So are you not researching at all? It appears as though waiting alpha is going to leave you a little behind.

No not really. Alphabet costs 200 to research.
Very often, i started researching it, but long before i finished it, i got into multiway trades providing alphabet and more.
Therefore, i took the risk not to do any research, providing me with money. This money could make multiway trades easier or it could be used to research writing and philo on a deficit.

As long as i trade Alpha before i gather 210 gold, i will not have lost time. I now traded it when i had 218 gold i think. So i lost one turn there. On the other hand i have a little gold remaining to use on deficit researching in the future.
So the risk i took has not succeeded in paying off, but the damage is not big as long as the money doesn't end up with Gozpel.

Researching it myself would also not have provided any trading opportunity, All the AI's have all the same techs including alphabet.

I have now set research to max on writing.
I think it should be visible if i get it before or after Gozpel. Whoever gets it first, probably sells it to the AI for everything.

Rik Meleet · 09-03-2006, 09:33

But you cannot prevent the money going to Gozpel. If he has met the same AI you paid money to and if he owns a tech the AI doesn't then it will probably happen.

07-03-2006, 02:46	#33
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	I never thought of the maximizing food other than the obvious. I've never really thought of the granary as "producing" food. Thanks for that insight __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

07-03-2006, 10:30	#34
grs The Nameless One Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany. Posts: 1,449	While I am definately not the expert here, I learned that tight placement seems to be a good thing in Civ3 PBEM games. Three tiles and even closer often is a good choice. __________________ grs / Grookshank

07-03-2006, 12:42	#35
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	From what I've gathered (and I'm no expert either), tight city placement gets production up, but once the nut is cracked, the rest of the cities are easily taken. Can anyone confirm? __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

09-03-2006, 02:19	#38
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	So are you not researching at all? It appears as though waiting alpha is going to leave you a little behind. __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

09-03-2006, 09:33	#40
Rik Meleet Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands. Posts: 2,502	But you cannot prevent the money going to Gozpel. If he has met the same AI you paid money to and if he owns a tech the AI doesn't then it will probably happen. __________________ Social life ? Sounds like fun !! Where can I download that ?

07-03-2006, 02:33	#32
WackenOpenAir Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: . Posts: 92	It is turn 18 (picture one turn old) now and the first settler is built. While i could not see them, i had planned to settle on both the BG's you can see in the Northwest on the river. After moving the Settler to its current position and discovering the BG, i had to change plans. Unfortunately this costs me a wasted turn and it makes my city placement somwhat tight. As you can see the 2 red dots. The bleu dot is an obvious one. The black dots are the only real option to have the cities in that region on rivers and have their borders meet up to cover the luxuries in between them without cultural expansion. Unfortunately, that again leads to a tight city placement. Without the closest black city, i could place the Orange and White city more optimal. I will decide on these spots after settling the red and bleu ones and hopefully having scouted the area a bit more. 121.95*KB My scouting warrior just spotted chinese border, i should meet them next turn or so. Unfortunately, an AI without alphabet.

09-03-2006, 00:30	#37
WackenOpenAir Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: . Posts: 92	It is now turn 27. Up till now, i was getting more and more worried about my 0 research plan since i did not meet any AI for a long time. China had Alphabet, but would not sell it. I now met my second AI, Scandinavia, and they have it as well. Alphabet research would have costed 200 beakers, and i have 174 gold in cash now. I can buy alphabet for 164g + 3gpt. So, not much is lost yet, buying it now comes it roughly the same cost as self research. I will however wait a little more before buying it. As my tresury increases, they will demand less gpt from me, so waiting a few more turns should not cost me time on my Writing research. And who knows, hopefully i will meet a 3th civ in those few turns, making the trade a lot cheaper. The second settler has been made last turn and moved to the second red dot. The first red dot already produced a warrior who is scouting the north. Update turn 31: I have met 2 more AI's and bought Alphabet for 178 gold. So i took a chance hoping to get some trades for basically free alphabet, but i ended up having no real advantage. The price is almost the same, and i got it a turn later than research would have. The risk now is the gold ending up in Gozpel's pockets. Let's hope that will not happen. My scouting warriors have found a cow, but it is too far to settle for now. Gozpel is ahead on me in score, but that does not mean i am at a disadvantage since i have a very tight city placement and thus not a lot of territory.