Unit upgrade charts - Page 2

Lt. Killer M · 12-11-2005, 18:59

thanx!

one thing that comes to my mind is: sometimes I can upgrade while in friend lands, sometimes not. Anyone know why? I have the techs, the res, the money.

akots · 12-11-2005, 20:37

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

What's a Phlanax?

Thanks! I correct it in jsut a day or two.

Kingreno · 13-11-2005, 09:34

The naval upgrades are most unrealistic too IMO. Caravel to Submarine?

[edit] oops, hit the wrong button, fixed that, now you just have to read my post before akots' post. PP

akots · 13-11-2005, 13:08

Yes, it is indeed very strange.

Upgrades seem to be more tricky than it seems in terms of cost. I'm still in the process of figuring it out and preparing the tables.

I'm just curious is it a valid tactic or not. Aim for great merchants to establish trade routes early and raze big bucks while building warriors and then upgrade and go kill everyone. It is not uncommon to get 3000 gold from a merchant and AI seem to be not so eager to go for Chemistry or Gunpowder. Each upgrade of warrior to grenadier costs 280g on normal setting. So, having like 7 or 8 of grenadiers with 3-4 catapults or cannons will take probably any city up to Emperor.

ProPain · 13-11-2005, 13:54

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

The naval upgrades are most unrealistic too IMO. Caravel to Submarine?

Seems to me to be one of the easiest, just punch a hole in the hull.

akots · 13-11-2005, 23:15

This is the table with upgrade cost for normal game speed. Sorry again for lack of designer skill. It is partially due to the glitchy nature of Microsoft Office and lack of any good imaging software on my PC. Apparently for epic speed these costs are just multiplied by 1.5 similar to the hammer price of units and rounded.

I really don't understand where these numbers come from, it seems that the cost varies from 3 to 4 gold per hammer with some additional flat fee or it is just a result of rounding the unit cost. I'm not good at XML and have tried to find it out in xml files but failed miserably.

Good thing, upgrade cost does not depend on difficulty and map size and does not seem to depend on starting and target unit strengths but not sure about the last point.

The starting point of the upgrade is in top row and left column is the target of upgrade. Intersection give the price for upgrade.

There are some very peculiar features to notice here. The most important is that the player gets some discount for bulk upgrade.

For example, if warrior is upgraded to pikeman directly, the price is 160. On the other hand, if warrior is first upgraded to spearman (85) and then spearman is upgraded to pikeman (100) this gives upgrade fee of 185. Thus, upgrading directly costs 25g less. In the case of warrior to mechanized infantry upgrade this gives even larger discount. Direct cost of upgrade is 580, whereas gradual upgrades through all intermediate steps will cost 680 for a total savings of 100g which is a lot of money.

Another thing to notice is that AI even on lower difficulty levels is either disbanding the old medieval units or upgrading them, cannot tell exactly. This is supposed to be a feature of civ4 apparently so that no more spearmen defenders against tanks. It seems that AI accumulates some cash and then as soon as a new unit is available either disbands the old one or upgrades it. Which means AI spends some extra money by doing all intermediate upgrades.

Never mind, here are the tables:

100.03KB

akots · 14-11-2005, 01:11

Ok, there is a 25 gold flat upgrade fee for each upgrade. Then it is 3 gold per each hammer. Hence comes the savings for the multiple upgrade.

akots · 05-05-2006, 07:11

The charts have to be upgraded for verion 1.61

Matrix · 05-05-2006, 12:30

Sweet work!

Few suggestions:
- A galley can be upgraded to a frigate as well.
- The arrow from chariot to knight seems unnecessary, because it goes via horse archers.
- I seem to remember that Riflemen can be upgraded to Machinegunners as well. You'll have to check that though.

Darkness · 05-05-2006, 13:26

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Matrix

- I seem to remember that Riflemen can be upgraded to Machinegunners as well. You'll have to check that though.

That's correct. I've seen that also.

12-11-2005, 18:59	#11
Lt. Killer M Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: HAWK!. Posts: 4,365	thanx! one thing that comes to my mind is: sometimes I can upgrade while in friend lands, sometimes not. Anyone know why? I have the techs, the res, the money. __________________ One more turn..... just one more turn... one MORE!

13-11-2005, 09:34	#13
Kingreno Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,270	The naval upgrades are most unrealistic too IMO. Caravel to Submarine? [edit] oops, hit the wrong button, fixed that, now you just have to read my post before akots' post. PP __________________ Go ahead punk. Make my day.

13-11-2005, 13:08	#14
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	Yes, it is indeed very strange. Upgrades seem to be more tricky than it seems in terms of cost. I'm still in the process of figuring it out and preparing the tables. I'm just curious is it a valid tactic or not. Aim for great merchants to establish trade routes early and raze big bucks while building warriors and then upgrade and go kill everyone. It is not uncommon to get 3000 gold from a merchant and AI seem to be not so eager to go for Chemistry or Gunpowder. Each upgrade of warrior to grenadier costs 280g on normal setting. So, having like 7 or 8 of grenadiers with 3-4 catapults or cannons will take probably any city up to Emperor. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

13-11-2005, 23:15	#16
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	This is the table with upgrade cost for normal game speed. Sorry again for lack of designer skill. It is partially due to the glitchy nature of Microsoft Office and lack of any good imaging software on my PC. Apparently for epic speed these costs are just multiplied by 1.5 similar to the hammer price of units and rounded. I really don't understand where these numbers come from, it seems that the cost varies from 3 to 4 gold per hammer with some additional flat fee or it is just a result of rounding the unit cost. I'm not good at XML and have tried to find it out in xml files but failed miserably. Good thing, upgrade cost does not depend on difficulty and map size and does not seem to depend on starting and target unit strengths but not sure about the last point. The starting point of the upgrade is in top row and left column is the target of upgrade. Intersection give the price for upgrade. There are some very peculiar features to notice here. The most important is that the player gets some discount for bulk upgrade. For example, if warrior is upgraded to pikeman directly, the price is 160. On the other hand, if warrior is first upgraded to spearman (85) and then spearman is upgraded to pikeman (100) this gives upgrade fee of 185. Thus, upgrading directly costs 25g less. In the case of warrior to mechanized infantry upgrade this gives even larger discount. Direct cost of upgrade is 580, whereas gradual upgrades through all intermediate steps will cost 680 for a total savings of 100g which is a lot of money. Another thing to notice is that AI even on lower difficulty levels is either disbanding the old medieval units or upgrading them, cannot tell exactly. This is supposed to be a feature of civ4 apparently so that no more spearmen defenders against tanks. It seems that AI accumulates some cash and then as soon as a new unit is available either disbands the old one or upgrades it. Which means AI spends some extra money by doing all intermediate upgrades. Never mind, here are the tables: 100.03KB __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

14-11-2005, 01:11	#17
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	Ok, there is a 25 gold flat upgrade fee for each upgrade. Then it is 3 gold per each hammer. Hence comes the savings for the multiple upgrade. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

05-05-2006, 07:11	#18
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	The charts have to be upgraded for verion 1.61 __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

05-05-2006, 12:30	#19
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Sweet work! Few suggestions: - A galley can be upgraded to a frigate as well. - The arrow from chariot to knight seems unnecessary, because it goes via horse archers. - I seem to remember that Riflemen can be upgraded to Machinegunners as well. You'll have to check that though. __________________