Civ4 Earth map SP challenge - Page 11

IanDC · 05-10-2008, 16:16

Catherine - Domination - 1675AD - 114563 - a couple of turns earlier but well down on score.

socralynnek · 05-10-2008, 17:58

Sorry, the Colonization made me lose focus...but at some point I will submit a result here...at least before civ V arrives ;-)

Matrix · 07-10-2008, 02:13

I finally made a scoring system that satisfies me.

Things are a little complicated now: China is the only thing that connects Killer with the rest, through me. And Russia is the only thing that connects akots and Beam, through IanDC. Before now I didn't take these connections into account. I just looked at the average score for a civ and looked how much better or worse you played than that average. (Roughly speaking; it was a little bit more complicated, but still wrong.)

Now I look at how much better we all are against each other, first in direct 'confrontations' (i.e. both having played the same civ), then via other players (Killer and I played China, me and IanDC played others). Once that relation is set I can also calculate Killer's relation with akots (Killer -> me -> IanDC -> akots), while recalculating all other relationships as well via all others. After a few iterations this converts into a ranking.

And this makes much more sense. Akots played exceptionally well with Russia, but because that's the only civ he played we don't know whether it's akots skill or Russia's ease to play with. But because IanDC played so well with Russia too and played little above average with the other civs we can only assume, statistically, that Russia is an easy civ to play.

But I can also put it another way: akots only performed a little better than IanDC, while Darkness played an extra little better than IanDC. Therefore Darkness is still #1 and akots #2 now.

That'll all chance once I've played Russia and have a score comparable with Beam's. Than akots will jump to a height and Beam will get an adequate ranking score.

Oof, and now it's well after bed time.

P.S. I calculate using the square root of the scores, because they increase parabolically over time and it's a good enough assumption for me that this also applies for final scores.

Lt. Killer M · 07-10-2008, 08:58

As I explained in Amersfoort, Russia offers enormous early potential: you can use chariots to kill several civs, and cripple even more.

To prove that I am currently playing them, and have conquered both Rome and Egypt for no losses, taking India's capital, pillaged the Malinese some (doing OK now) and the Mongols to the stone age (still not recovered in 500AD), and used the resutling GG for a monster city attack axeman, which took two towns off Sury. I lack the Great Wall (missed by 2 turns, Qin was extremely fast!), so I have to waste a lot of shields on barb defense.

If one is able to survive the economic problems resulting from keeping the conquered cities (I kept too many), then Russia can easily lead to triple the score of any other civ, I estimate.

Matrix · 07-10-2008, 12:35

Apparently it is. I'm quite positive though that I won't be able to got a score about 100,000 points. I got the feeling my Egyptian score is about as high as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt. Killer M

Just finished my first attempt, 34515 points as China

No surprise - I did e.g. not know that tech trading is off, so I played a LOT of nonsense early on.

Could you tell me what victory type and finish date you had?

Lt. Killer M · 07-10-2008, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrix

Could you tell me what victory type and finish date you had?

uh, IIRC accidental domination somewhen in 18xx AD....

Egypt score: yes indeed Egypt allows extreme scores, but Russia basically guarantees that you win, and decisively so! Playing as Egypt you must be lucky - an early dogpile can really ruin your life because of the fairly low hammer count of the stating area. As Russia, you must work hard to fail!

Matrix · 07-10-2008, 19:37

You can't fail with Russia? What better way to figure that out than let me have a go...

ProPain · 07-10-2008, 23:20

Dont be so modest Matrix

akots · 08-10-2008, 02:08

Oh, Killer, come on, it is just Noble level, there is no way to lose unless done on purpose or there is a severe malfunction of some vital organ.

Russia is quite a convenient choice while going for Domination. Creative trait guarantees smooth border expansion. Starting forests enable all early critical wonders if you do it right. Position is in the center and warring is faster from the center since you can go in multiple directions and reinforcements get to their goal more rapidly. There is also some last-touch forests in the tundra areas. Overall, yes, domination can be done smoothly but still essentially required cavalry although possible to do with cuirassiers.

Another interesting point might be trying with Aztec or Maya. That should also enable may be even a faster date but the score can be substantially lower unless everything is researched (Communism, Biology, Rifling, Military Tradition) before invading Europe/Africa.

It seems that grabbing wonders also can be accomplished, initial conquest phase (all America) can be quite fast as well. However, the game would be extremely tedious due to number of ship chains required to transport all troops and workers to irrigate. Also, Astronomy has to be researched very early. IMO, the conquest phase can be done with macemen/cats, it just would be extremely tedious and since Biology is needed for good score in any case, there is no point in denying cavalry here, it is not an expensive research path on Noble level even at this map size.

Lt. Killer M · 08-10-2008, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by akots

Oh, Killer, come on, it is just Noble level, there is no way to lose unless done on purpose or there is a severe malfunction of some vital organ.

'Just noble' means that getting dogpiled by Caesar (~30 Praetorians), Asoka (~50 elephants + support units) and Ghengis (~45 Keshik) can make you lose a culture win game.

05-10-2008, 17:58	#102
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	Sorry, the Colonization made me lose focus...but at some point I will submit a result here...at least before civ V arrives ;-) __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.

07-10-2008, 02:13	#103
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	I finally made a scoring system that satisfies me. Things are a little complicated now: China is the only thing that connects Killer with the rest, through me. And Russia is the only thing that connects akots and Beam, through IanDC. Before now I didn't take these connections into account. I just looked at the average score for a civ and looked how much better or worse you played than that average. (Roughly speaking; it was a little bit more complicated, but still wrong.) Now I look at how much better we all are against each other, first in direct 'confrontations' (i.e. both having played the same civ), then via other players (Killer and I played China, me and IanDC played others). Once that relation is set I can also calculate Killer's relation with akots (Killer -> me -> IanDC -> akots), while recalculating all other relationships as well via all others. After a few iterations this converts into a ranking. And this makes much more sense. Akots played exceptionally well with Russia, but because that's the only civ he played we don't know whether it's akots skill or Russia's ease to play with. But because IanDC played so well with Russia too and played little above average with the other civs we can only assume, statistically, that Russia is an easy civ to play. But I can also put it another way: akots only performed a little better than IanDC, while Darkness played an extra little better than IanDC. Therefore Darkness is still #1 and akots #2 now. That'll all chance once I've played Russia and have a score comparable with Beam's. Than akots will jump to a height and Beam will get an adequate ranking score. Oof, and now it's well after bed time. P.S. I calculate using the square root of the scores, because they increase parabolically over time and it's a good enough assumption for me that this also applies for final scores. __________________ Last edited by Matrix; 07-10-2008 at 02:16.

07-10-2008, 08:58	#104
Lt. Killer M Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: HAWK!. Posts: 4,365	As I explained in Amersfoort, Russia offers enormous early potential: you can use chariots to kill several civs, and cripple even more. To prove that I am currently playing them, and have conquered both Rome and Egypt for no losses, taking India's capital, pillaged the Malinese some (doing OK now) and the Mongols to the stone age (still not recovered in 500AD), and used the resutling GG for a monster city attack axeman, which took two towns off Sury. I lack the Great Wall (missed by 2 turns, Qin was extremely fast!), so I have to waste a lot of shields on barb defense. If one is able to survive the economic problems resulting from keeping the conquered cities (I kept too many), then Russia can easily lead to triple the score of any other civ, I estimate. __________________ One more turn..... just one more turn... one MORE!

07-10-2008, 19:37	#107
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	You can't fail with Russia? What better way to figure that out than let me have a go... __________________

07-10-2008, 23:20	#108
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	Dont be so modest Matrix __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

08-10-2008, 02:08	#109
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	Oh, Killer, come on, it is just Noble level, there is no way to lose unless done on purpose or there is a severe malfunction of some vital organ. Russia is quite a convenient choice while going for Domination. Creative trait guarantees smooth border expansion. Starting forests enable all early critical wonders if you do it right. Position is in the center and warring is faster from the center since you can go in multiple directions and reinforcements get to their goal more rapidly. There is also some last-touch forests in the tundra areas. Overall, yes, domination can be done smoothly but still essentially required cavalry although possible to do with cuirassiers. Another interesting point might be trying with Aztec or Maya. That should also enable may be even a faster date but the score can be substantially lower unless everything is researched (Communism, Biology, Rifling, Military Tradition) before invading Europe/Africa. It seems that grabbing wonders also can be accomplished, initial conquest phase (all America) can be quite fast as well. However, the game would be extremely tedious due to number of ship chains required to transport all troops and workers to irrigate. Also, Astronomy has to be researched very early. IMO, the conquest phase can be done with macemen/cats, it just would be extremely tedious and since Biology is needed for good score in any case, there is no point in denying cavalry here, it is not an expensive research path on Noble level even at this map size. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)