I am so fed up with Firaxis! [rant]

Lt. Killer M · 13-08-2004, 15:14

Ok, get this: 6 times in a row, a Longbowman attacks a fortified Swis mercenary ona hill.

6 times in a row the LBM wins - 2 even without losing a single HP.

Well, no sweat, I'll get the AI for this, I'll use my horsemen to kill the LBM, then use my Knights to attack the regular MDI stack beyond them.

not really!

I lose 5 horses, 1 retreat, to kill the LBM. I also lose 4 Knights to kill 4 MDI, the remeining Knights staying vulnerable at 1 or 2 HP.

All in all, in the last game, I lost around 3 times the shield of the AI despite all battles being fought with better than 50:50 odds for me!

C3C RNG sucks big time, a few good runs in between don't make it better really - they make planning a campaign a joke!

Lt. Killer M · 13-08-2004, 15:35

to add insult to injury, the next run an unfortified reg Spear goes from 1 HP to 3 HP and elite, killing 2 vet Horsemen. Should have upgraded them... or not, as the Knight also loses....

anarres · 13-08-2004, 15:37

Well, it is a good RNG, and it works according to the formula (for each round of battle):

Chance of attacker winning: A/(A+D)

What you complain about is the model being too random for you. You can't say it's not a "good" RNG.

Socrates · 13-08-2004, 15:52

Each time I have hard luck about RNG in Civ, I calm down by telling me I could as well play chess (and be kicked in the butt by the computer anyway

). That's what makes Civ a nice game, I believe : you can't just do the right things, you also have to be lucky, and sometimes do extra efforts in order to overcome hard luck.

About units in Civ3, I have an ambiguous opinion. I think that having clear health bars helps in every way, but having so few HPs in the game makes it difficult to predict the pure outcome (win or lose) of a battle. But that is also what makes it interesting : a spear can win against a tank !

Otherwise (if units had like 50 HPs) you would just build enough units to beat the opponent's units and be almost sure to win everytime your unit is better than its foe. Yes, even in Civ, a King living for thousands of years can't take place inside everyone of his subjects. Only gods can do this, and you have to play Populous.

Lt. Killer M · 13-08-2004, 15:53

you know quite well that it is totally unsuited for the few battles one actually fights in C3C!

Matrix · 13-08-2004, 17:12

Yea, they shouldn't have made the game in the first place.

Sorry for being cynical, but if anyone is to blame it's Atari, since they rush the creators to finish the game a.s.a.p., even though it isn't done yet. And even then, finishing a game takes forever; money's got to flow once.

Ah well, old story.

Aggie · 13-08-2004, 17:37

Matrix, that may be true, but I see nothing wrong with the RNG. The best way to beat the odds: overwhelming force.

Stapel · 13-08-2004, 19:35

What a bout reloading and waiting one turn

Dell19 · 13-08-2004, 23:17

Or turning of the option that preserves random seed

Matrix · 14-08-2004, 00:46

Yes Aggie, though Killer was extremely unlucky in this time.

Still, it can happen. [

]

13-08-2004, 15:14	#1
Lt. Killer M Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: HAWK!. Posts: 4,365	I am so fed up with Firaxis! [rant] Ok, get this: 6 times in a row, a Longbowman attacks a fortified Swis mercenary ona hill. 6 times in a row the LBM wins - 2 even without losing a single HP. Well, no sweat, I'll get the AI for this, I'll use my horsemen to kill the LBM, then use my Knights to attack the regular MDI stack beyond them. not really! I lose 5 horses, 1 retreat, to kill the LBM. I also lose 4 Knights to kill 4 MDI, the remeining Knights staying vulnerable at 1 or 2 HP. All in all, in the last game, I lost around 3 times the shield of the AI despite all battles being fought with better than 50:50 odds for me! C3C RNG sucks big time, a few good runs in between don't make it better really - they make planning a campaign a joke! __________________ One more turn..... just one more turn... one MORE!

13-08-2004, 15:35	#2
Lt. Killer M Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: HAWK!. Posts: 4,365	to add insult to injury, the next run an unfortified reg Spear goes from 1 HP to 3 HP and elite, killing 2 vet Horsemen. Should have upgraded them... or not, as the Knight also loses.... __________________ One more turn..... just one more turn... one MORE!

13-08-2004, 15:37	#3
anarres anarchist butcher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States of Whatever. Posts: 4,677	Well, it is a good RNG, and it works according to the formula (for each round of battle): Chance of attacker winning: A/(A+D) What you complain about is the model being too random for you. You can't say it's not a "good" RNG. __________________ <b>Calculate the probability of culture flips: Flip Calc</b>

13-08-2004, 15:52	#4
Socrates Emperor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,946	Each time I have hard luck about RNG in Civ, I calm down by telling me I could as well play chess (and be kicked in the butt by the computer anyway ). That's what makes Civ a nice game, I believe : you can't just do the right things, you also have to be lucky, and sometimes do extra efforts in order to overcome hard luck. About units in Civ3, I have an ambiguous opinion. I think that having clear health bars helps in every way, but having so few HPs in the game makes it difficult to predict the pure outcome (win or lose) of a battle. But that is also what makes it interesting : a spear can win against a tank ! Otherwise (if units had like 50 HPs) you would just build enough units to beat the opponent's units and be almost sure to win everytime your unit is better than its foe. Yes, even in Civ, a King living for thousands of years can't take place inside everyone of his subjects. Only gods can do this, and you have to play Populous. __________________ Sent from my Debian

13-08-2004, 15:53	#5
Lt. Killer M Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: HAWK!. Posts: 4,365	you know quite well that it is totally unsuited for the few battles one actually fights in C3C! __________________ One more turn..... just one more turn... one MORE!

13-08-2004, 17:12	#6
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Yea, they shouldn't have made the game in the first place. Sorry for being cynical, but if anyone is to blame it's Atari, since they rush the creators to finish the game a.s.a.p., even though it isn't done yet. And even then, finishing a game takes forever; money's got to flow once. Ah well, old story. __________________

13-08-2004, 17:37	#7
Aggie Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N/A Posts: 4,490	Matrix, that may be true, but I see nothing wrong with the RNG. The best way to beat the odds: overwhelming force.

13-08-2004, 19:35	#8
Stapel Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,196	What a bout reloading and waiting one turn __________________ Vrooooooooooommmmmm Stapel doesn't like cricket

13-08-2004, 23:17	#9
Dell19 King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grantham. Posts: 1,359	Or turning of the option that preserves random seed

14-08-2004, 00:46	#10
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Yes Aggie, though Killer was extremely unlucky in this time. Still, it can happen. [] __________________