Team CDZ Turnplay Thread

grahamiam · 10-05-2006, 14:39

The opening post to the game from over @ CFC

Thread -> Team C D Z

Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory. All victory conditions are still enabled though, with exception of Space Race, so you have to avoid getting another type of victory (and of course prevent the AIs from winning).

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12.

Here's the start position.

<center>

</center>

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Hapshepsut of Egypt
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Mystery
Game Speed - Epic

Permanent Alliances are turned on (can form permanent alliances after either communism or fascism is researched)
Space race is disabled.
Egypt is locked into war with Huayna Capac of the Incas.
Egypt is locked into peace with an unknown civilization.

The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization4 v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award - the Gold Laurels.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by either domination or diplomacy.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Good luck to your team, and remember rule #1: Enjoy your game

grahamiam · 10-05-2006, 14:43

Additional posts regarding 1st turns discussed @ CFC:

[Post 2]
Author : grahamiam
Date : May 08, 2006 02:47 PM

checking in :wavey:

looks like the 1st decisions are as follows:
a. settler stay or move (perhaps 1st turnplayer should move the warrior and post a screenie)
b. 1st tech to research
c. 1st build (warrior or worker)

general strategy: do we want to find the Inca? We certainly want to meet the others and find our buddy. Do we want our buddy to have the same religon? If so, perhaps we let him found the religon (AI's like to do that) and then just adopt his.

Our starting techs are Agr and Wheel, both of which lead to pottery. We can also go for Animal Husbandry (for Horses & Pastures) but I think Pottery would be good, especially if our 1st build is a worker.

Hep is Spiritual and Creative, so our cities will get +2cpt, which makes barb clearing very easy.

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[Post 3]
Author : barbu1977
Date : May 08, 2006 04:08 PM

Also checking in.

If we move the worker east we have access to both rivers, making commerce between our cities a piece of cake.

For the first build, I'd suggest a warrior, and we buld a worker when we hit size 2.

For the science, well, I'm not to good in that department.

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[Post 4]
Author : grahamiam
Date : May 08, 2006 04:44 PM

well, I'd prefer moving the settler S for the following reasons:
1. gets us the cow more quickly (1st expansion, gives health and hammers)
2. gets us some forests for extra production as well as offsets health problems due to the flood plains

linking the other river will only take 3 turns so I don't really see the advantage. also, by moving E we replace the grass hill (1f, 1h) with a desert hill (1h, 1g), which seems to be a wash.

Another possible starting position is on the plains hill. I think, since we seem so hammer deprived, that mining it will be better than settling on it, but I'm not really sure. If we do want to settle on it, I would propose moving the warrior 1T N to see if anything up there is interesting. Then move the settler 1T S to get a looksy, then W to the hill.

anyone know the production multiplier for epic vs standard? curious what the time tradoff will be if we wait till pop 2 for the worker.

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[Post 5]
Author : bed_head7
Date : May 09, 2006 01:19 AM

I agree on moving south. We want the cow, though it looks as though we will probably lose one bonus health from only having three forests instead of four. I don't think the plains hill is such a good idea. We will definitely want that mined. We will probably want to wait until size two on building a worker. I have never really seen a start where it was worth building a settler while only size one.

Also, I have finals coming up, but will be done by Sunday, so I may or may not be active in initial planning.

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[Post 6]
Author : socralynnek
Date : May 09, 2006 08:09 AM

Settling SW could be nice.
If our warrior would just be a little closer...

It might be, that I can't play before next tuesday evening, but I am not the right person to play at first anyway...

Maybe we want to found a religion. Still we want to make sure we have the same religion than our buddy, but I guess both is possible if we can get him to send a missionary if he has adifferent one.

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[Post 7]
Author : grahamiam
Date : May 09, 2006 08:16 AM

. We will probably want to wait until size two on building a worker. I have never really seen a start where it was worth building a settler while only size one.

I agree on not building a settler at size 1, but building a worker 1st is certainly viable in single player games. we will have an excess of 3fpt + 1hpt if we settle S. At size 2, we will have excess 4fpt + 1hpt (assumes we work flood plains for the extra gold), which probably doesn't cut down the build time that much.

Settling SW gets us a desert in our starting cross and eliminates at least 2 forests. imho, I'd prefer S or E over SW.

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[Post 8]
Author : socralynnek
Date : May 09, 2006 08:43 AM

Hmmm.... settling S, then cottaging all Floodplains (a GP city can be somewhere else), combined with our capital being a holy city... I see a lot of cash (or research) coming from that city...

Or irrigating some floodplains and then have a lot of specialists...

Anyway if we settle S, we will probably not have that many hammers, but three hills is ok.

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[Post 9]
Author : AlanH
Date : May 09, 2006 08:49 AM

HI

Beam has posted in the sign-up thread asking to join CDZ. Do you want a seventh player, and are you aware of his interest?

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[Post 10]
Author : grahamiam
Date : May 09, 2006 09:15 AM

yes alan, he's part of the team

grahamiam · 10-05-2006, 14:52

Exchange @ CDZ regarding the starting postion:

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Samson

So do we discus 1st turn moves etc. here? Anyone fancy the plains hill?

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

That'd give us the cow, which is a must. Plus the river. What's the grey stuff two tiles left from the lake?

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Beam
The cow indeed is a must so imo the settler should move. But with this much food we might consider settling on one of the floodplains so the hills can be developed later for hammers.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Samson

I am a bit worried by health issues if we do not move west. The plains hill will give us 6 flood plains, which is 2 (?) unhealthiness. 1 south would give us 10 (3 or 4?) with could be a problem early game.

The extra hammer from the start is nice too. I think we will get at least 2 hills (visable grassland and the one below it).

Going west would also give us more space for a city this side of the mountains, eg. the desert hill.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Beam

@Samson, that's true about the unhealthy floodplains. According to the civilipedia it is 0.40 per fp so 6 fp would make that 2.4 and 10 fp 4 unhealthiness. Which is a strong plea for the hill SW.

grahamiam · 10-05-2006, 22:20

So, we seem to be of 4 minds on the settler move.

Options are as follows:
S to the FP (high unhealthiness of -4, gets +2 for river)
SW to the hill (unhealthiness of -2.4, get extra hammer in CC, gets +2 for river) (not sure of the rounding, up or down, that CIV will do)
E to the FP (high unhealthiness of -4.4, gets +2 for river)
W to grass forest (unhealthiness of 2, gets +2 for river)

W and SW loses a turn, but that's not a big deal. I agree with Samson that W allows for a city to the E, perhaps on the desert, but we lose the cow from the city radius. That's a 4f, 2h, 1g tile once developed. Hopefully, if we go W, there's enough room to the S that we can settle nearby (perhaps on the river or forest-river in the fog).

Seems to me, weighing all the details and future city sites, that W is the best for our long term developement. SW gives us a nice production boost if we go worker 1st, plus gives us the cows in the capitol radius, so it would be my 2nd pick.

Shabbaman · 10-05-2006, 22:24

Well...

Actually, we don't really need to cow in our starting grid, because we already got a lot of food with the floodplains. We could "save" them for a later city. There's no need to grab it quickly, because it'll soon be in our cultural borders. We do need production in our capital, so perhaps the forest is best to settle on first after all.

Still, my first move would've been settling on the SW hill, without giving it much thought.

Beam · 11-05-2006, 01:54

Nice summary gram! One more factor to consider are the Inca with us locked in war. They have an awesome UU for the early game!

10.98KB

Cheap and gives shit about archers. Imho locating Inca and a defense bonus in the cap can be very helpful.

I'd favor either W or SW settling, slight pref for SW because of the defenses bonus (?), the cows and the view.

grahamiam · 11-05-2006, 02:50

easy answer to the quecha are axes

Shabbaman · 11-05-2006, 08:05

Ah, the view...

The defensive bonus might be nice, but we better not let them that close to our capital. 1 question: if we settle on the forest, do we get the hammers or not?

Darkness · 11-05-2006, 09:32

Lurkers comment: I'd settle SW (on the hill) if I were you. You'll be using a lot of floodplains at the beginning of the game, so your production will be very low. Settling on the hill will give you an extra hammer in the city-tile, doubling your production for at least the first 7 (and quite likely the first 15-20) turns. That way you can quickly get some quecha's out much faster for exploration and MP. And you'll bring the cows into the 21 by moving SW.

Shabbaman · 11-05-2006, 09:56

I don't see us churning out quecha's any time soon

10-05-2006, 22:24	#5
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	Well... Actually, we don't really need to cow in our starting grid, because we already got a lot of food with the floodplains. We could "save" them for a later city. There's no need to grab it quickly, because it'll soon be in our cultural borders. We do need production in our capital, so perhaps the forest is best to settle on first after all. Still, my first move would've been settling on the SW hill, without giving it much thought. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

11-05-2006, 01:54	#6
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Nice summary gram! One more factor to consider are the Inca with us locked in war. They have an awesome UU for the early game! 10.98KB Cheap and gives shit about archers. Imho locating Inca and a defense bonus in the cap can be very helpful. I'd favor either W or SW settling, slight pref for SW because of the defenses bonus (?), the cows and the view. __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

11-05-2006, 08:05	#8
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	Ah, the view... The defensive bonus might be nice, but we better not let them that close to our capital. 1 question: if we settle on the forest, do we get the hammers or not? __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

11-05-2006, 09:32	#9
Darkness Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 4,169	Lurkers comment: I'd settle SW (on the hill) if I were you. You'll be using a lot of floodplains at the beginning of the game, so your production will be very low. Settling on the hill will give you an extra hammer in the city-tile, doubling your production for at least the first 7 (and quite likely the first 15-20) turns. That way you can quickly get some quecha's out much faster for exploration and MP. And you'll bring the cows into the 21 by moving SW. __________________ "Death is lighter than a feather, but duty is heavier than a mountain..." - The Eye of the World

11-05-2006, 09:56	#10
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	I don't see us churning out quecha's any time soon __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

10-05-2006, 14:39	#1
grahamiam Emperor Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA, East Coast. Posts: 2,673	Team CDZ Turnplay Thread The opening post to the game from over @ CFC Thread -> Team C D Z Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game. This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61. This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory. All victory conditions are still enabled though, with exception of Space Race, so you have to avoid getting another type of victory (and of course prevent the AIs from winning). Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12. Here's the start position. <center></center> Map Parameters Playable Civ - Hapshepsut of Egypt World size - Standard Difficulty - Monarch Landform - Mystery Game Speed - Epic Permanent Alliances are turned on (can form permanent alliances after either communism or fascism is researched) Space race is disabled. Egypt is locked into war with Huayna Capac of the Incas. Egypt is locked into peace with an unknown civilization. The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration. Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared: Civ4 SGOTM reference thread Notes: A. ONLY Civilization4 v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award - the Gold Laurels. B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by either domination or diplomacy. C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set. Good luck to your team, and remember rule #1: Enjoy your game

10-05-2006, 14:43	#2
grahamiam Emperor Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA, East Coast. Posts: 2,673	Additional posts regarding 1st turns discussed @ CFC: [Post 2] Author : grahamiam Date : May 08, 2006 02:47 PM checking in :wavey: looks like the 1st decisions are as follows: a. settler stay or move (perhaps 1st turnplayer should move the warrior and post a screenie) b. 1st tech to research c. 1st build (warrior or worker) general strategy: do we want to find the Inca? We certainly want to meet the others and find our buddy. Do we want our buddy to have the same religon? If so, perhaps we let him found the religon (AI's like to do that) and then just adopt his. Our starting techs are Agr and Wheel, both of which lead to pottery. We can also go for Animal Husbandry (for Horses & Pastures) but I think Pottery would be good, especially if our 1st build is a worker. Hep is Spiritual and Creative, so our cities will get +2cpt, which makes barb clearing very easy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : barbu1977 Date : May 08, 2006 04:08 PM Also checking in. If we move the worker east we have access to both rivers, making commerce between our cities a piece of cake. For the first build, I'd suggest a warrior, and we buld a worker when we hit size 2. For the science, well, I'm not to good in that department. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : grahamiam Date : May 08, 2006 04:44 PM well, I'd prefer moving the settler S for the following reasons: 1. gets us the cow more quickly (1st expansion, gives health and hammers) 2. gets us some forests for extra production as well as offsets health problems due to the flood plains linking the other river will only take 3 turns so I don't really see the advantage. also, by moving E we replace the grass hill (1f, 1h) with a desert hill (1h, 1g), which seems to be a wash. Another possible starting position is on the plains hill. I think, since we seem so hammer deprived, that mining it will be better than settling on it, but I'm not really sure. If we do want to settle on it, I would propose moving the warrior 1T N to see if anything up there is interesting. Then move the settler 1T S to get a looksy, then W to the hill. anyone know the production multiplier for epic vs standard? curious what the time tradoff will be if we wait till pop 2 for the worker. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : bed_head7 Date : May 09, 2006 01:19 AM I agree on moving south. We want the cow, though it looks as though we will probably lose one bonus health from only having three forests instead of four. I don't think the plains hill is such a good idea. We will definitely want that mined. We will probably want to wait until size two on building a worker. I have never really seen a start where it was worth building a settler while only size one. Also, I have finals coming up, but will be done by Sunday, so I may or may not be active in initial planning. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : socralynnek Date : May 09, 2006 08:09 AM Settling SW could be nice. If our warrior would just be a little closer... It might be, that I can't play before next tuesday evening, but I am not the right person to play at first anyway... Maybe we want to found a religion. Still we want to make sure we have the same religion than our buddy, but I guess both is possible if we can get him to send a missionary if he has adifferent one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : grahamiam Date : May 09, 2006 08:16 AM . We will probably want to wait until size two on building a worker. I have never really seen a start where it was worth building a settler while only size one. I agree on not building a settler at size 1, but building a worker 1st is certainly viable in single player games. we will have an excess of 3fpt + 1hpt if we settle S. At size 2, we will have excess 4fpt + 1hpt (assumes we work flood plains for the extra gold), which probably doesn't cut down the build time that much. Settling SW gets us a desert in our starting cross and eliminates at least 2 forests. imho, I'd prefer S or E over SW. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : socralynnek Date : May 09, 2006 08:43 AM Hmmm.... settling S, then cottaging all Floodplains (a GP city can be somewhere else), combined with our capital being a holy city... I see a lot of cash (or research) coming from that city... Or irrigating some floodplains and then have a lot of specialists... Anyway if we settle S, we will probably not have that many hammers, but three hills is ok. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : AlanH Date : May 09, 2006 08:49 AM HI Beam has posted in the sign-up thread asking to join CDZ. Do you want a seventh player, and are you aware of his interest? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : grahamiam Date : May 09, 2006 09:15 AM yes alan, he's part of the team

10-05-2006, 22:20	#4
grahamiam Emperor Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA, East Coast. Posts: 2,673	So, we seem to be of 4 minds on the settler move. Options are as follows: S to the FP (high unhealthiness of -4, gets +2 for river) SW to the hill (unhealthiness of -2.4, get extra hammer in CC, gets +2 for river) (not sure of the rounding, up or down, that CIV will do) E to the FP (high unhealthiness of -4.4, gets +2 for river) W to grass forest (unhealthiness of 2, gets +2 for river) W and SW loses a turn, but that's not a big deal. I agree with Samson that W allows for a city to the E, perhaps on the desert, but we lose the cow from the city radius. That's a 4f, 2h, 1g tile once developed. Hopefully, if we go W, there's enough room to the S that we can settle nearby (perhaps on the river or forest-river in the fog). Seems to me, weighing all the details and future city sites, that W is the best for our long term developement. SW gives us a nice production boost if we go worker 1st, plus gives us the cows in the capitol radius, so it would be my 2nd pick.

11-05-2006, 02:50	#7
grahamiam Emperor Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA, East Coast. Posts: 2,673	easy answer to the quecha are axes