This is the end

akots · 06-12-2006, 06:11

Alas, every good thing has to come to an end.

When Kasparov lost to Deep Blue, there was still hope just because it were a super machine with a super program.

Now, Fritz 9 had beaten Kramnik in a match 4:2 and mankind lost its battle against AI.

The Terminator time is coming!

For details see:

http://www.rag.de/microsite_chess_com/

Kemal · 06-12-2006, 08:55

Hopefully Schwarzenegger knows how to play chess too then...

If I understood correctly, Fritz 9 is actually a far more advanced chess program than Deep Blue was, isn't it? And that the worrying news should be that contrary to Kasparov, Kramnik had the opportunity to study and prepare on his opponent, but he actually seems to have done really well except for one blackout moment, costing him a game and thus, since needing to force a win, the match.

Rik Meleet · 06-12-2006, 10:05

Then switch to Bridge. The (Dutch) worldchampion Computer-bridge; Jack, is strong, but not on human level yet.
http://www.jackbridge.nl/eindex.htm

And since in bridge there are always unknown elements in the form of cards you don't see I think there'll always be room to have moves that are not the mathematically best moves, but can win. Computers are not known to do those moves.

Kemal · 06-12-2006, 10:23

Yep, I suppose AIs excell in chess for a large part because it doesn't involve luck, only skill.

akots · 06-12-2006, 10:46

The Terminator time is coming!

With bridge it is just a matter of time the programmers and good players want to invest into a good piece of software. Besides, it is not that popular compared to chess.

Melifluous · 06-12-2006, 12:04

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by akots

...
When Kasparov lost to Deep Blue
...

Kasparov didn't lose, IBM cheated.

Quote:

quote:Taken from here
In game two, an even more bitter disadvantage became apparent. At that point, a single move on the part of Deep Blue shocked not just Garry but the whole grandmaster community hungrily following along. Rather than capture an exposed pawn, the machine chose another route - a strange sacrifice that in '97 seemed far beyond the strategic foresight of a computer. "It was an incredibly refined move," says Seirawan, "of defending while ahead to cut out any hint of countermoves, and it sent Garry into a tizzy."

Nothing the machine had done in the 1996 match, nor anything it had done in game one, suggested it could or would make such calculations. The move represented a style of play out of keeping with anything that had gone before. "There were only three explanations," says Malcolm Pein, chess correspondent for The Daily Telegraph of London, who worked for IBM on the Web site for the match. "Either we were seeing some kind of vast quantum leap in chess programming that none of us knew about, or we were seeing the machine calculate far more deeply than anyone heard it could, or a human had intervened during the game."

Socrates · 06-12-2006, 13:25

That blunder Kramnik did last week is pretty stupid... Without that, it could have been 3.5-2.5 or even 3-3. But don't be scared, akots. Ukelele has been busted for a long time, and people still play the game. Just like Backgammon, which was entirely busted recently.

col · 07-12-2006, 10:45

Even the best Go programs are barely above beginner standard btw.

akots · 08-12-2006, 07:50

On a sidenote, there is another sad news. The famous international grandmaster David Bronshtein died at the age of 82.

Details, a short biography, and a nice video featuring Yasser Seirawan can be found here:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsroom2.asp?id=3525

akots · 08-12-2006, 07:56

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by col
Even the best Go programs are barely above beginner standard btw.

That is not quite true since a few nice pieces of software appeared recently. They are not freeware though. Even Go++ is not that bad: http://www.goplusplus.com/

Fuck, sorry col, I somehow misclicked and edited your post. If some of the admins make this un-happen please.

06-12-2006, 06:11	#1
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	This is the end Alas, every good thing has to come to an end. When Kasparov lost to Deep Blue, there was still hope just because it were a super machine with a super program. Now, Fritz 9 had beaten Kramnik in a match 4:2 and mankind lost its battle against AI. The Terminator time is coming! For details see: http://www.rag.de/microsite_chess_com/ __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

06-12-2006, 08:55	#2
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	Hopefully Schwarzenegger knows how to play chess too then... If I understood correctly, Fritz 9 is actually a far more advanced chess program than Deep Blue was, isn't it? And that the worrying news should be that contrary to Kasparov, Kramnik had the opportunity to study and prepare on his opponent, but he actually seems to have done really well except for one blackout moment, costing him a game and thus, since needing to force a win, the match. __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

06-12-2006, 10:05	#3
Rik Meleet Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands. Posts: 2,502	Then switch to Bridge. The (Dutch) worldchampion Computer-bridge; Jack, is strong, but not on human level yet. http://www.jackbridge.nl/eindex.htm And since in bridge there are always unknown elements in the form of cards you don't see I think there'll always be room to have moves that are not the mathematically best moves, but can win. Computers are not known to do those moves. __________________ Social life ? Sounds like fun !! Where can I download that ?

06-12-2006, 10:23	#4
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	Yep, I suppose AIs excell in chess for a large part because it doesn't involve luck, only skill. __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

06-12-2006, 10:46	#5
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	The Terminator time is coming! With bridge it is just a matter of time the programmers and good players want to invest into a good piece of software. Besides, it is not that popular compared to chess. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

06-12-2006, 13:25	#7
Socrates Emperor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,946	That blunder Kramnik did last week is pretty stupid... Without that, it could have been 3.5-2.5 or even 3-3. But don't be scared, akots. Ukelele has been busted for a long time, and people still play the game. Just like Backgammon, which was entirely busted recently. __________________ Sent from my Debian

07-12-2006, 10:45	#8
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	Even the best Go programs are barely above beginner standard btw. __________________ I can't be arsed.

08-12-2006, 07:50	#9
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	On a sidenote, there is another sad news. The famous international grandmaster David Bronshtein died at the age of 82. Details, a short biography, and a nice video featuring Yasser Seirawan can be found here: http://www.chessbase.com/newsroom2.asp?id=3525 __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)