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[col]

Well to clarify "its just a game" as quoted by sMeli.

I'm trying to get a sense of perspective here. Yes we are surprised and shocked. Its not something that we at CDZ do. It only happens elsewhere, doesnt it?

Well no.

Sadly in my opinion, worthy though ladders and leagues are in many respect, as soon as you introduce that level of competition, you make winning too desirable, losing too awful and cheating becomes inevitable. It happens in every type of game. I dont know any online game or offline game too that doesnt have players who cheat. I'm surprised everyone is so shocked.

People play games for a whole variety of reasons. I play for fun and to relieve the stress of a tough job. Others play for different reasons. I dont like losing but it doesnt particularly bother me if I lose a game of Civ. Like most people I have far more important things going on in my life - and to be honest - my life would probably be better if I spent a bit less time playing games like Civ.

Why do players cheat? Lots of different reasons. To see if they can. To show how clever they are. Because they think everyone else does it. Because winning is more important than playing. Because they cant stand to lose. Because there are too many bad winners. Because they are self destructive. Because they dont enjoy playing any more ... you can add your own.

Yes I'm surprised if Sky cheated but I dont particularly care much. CDZ is a social site first and foremost for me. Civ is incidental. I cant get worked up about what is in the end "just a game". I find some of the outraged morality round here somewhat over the top. If you've never cheated at a game in your life, then you are a rare and slightly sad individual.

[Kemal]

Deleted.

Obviously my views on this matter are totally different than of most people here, but this was not the correct way to vent my anger here I suppose.

If Col wishes, we can talk about our feelings on this matter via msm privately. The forum is not the right place to do this indeed.

Kemal

[anarres]

Guys, please try to refrain from judging each others feelings about this.

You can say what you like on the matter, but it saddens me very much that people feel the need to make this personal in any way.

[anarres]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

For this entire topic long, col, you've been patronizing and telling those who Skyfish has been cheating what to feel, think and do...

FWIW several people have done this (including you).

To everyone: think about the effect of your words on CDZ community. Every bad word about another is just making the whole situation worse.

[Aggie]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

Guys, please try to refrain from judging each others feelings about this.

You can say what you like on the matter, but it saddens me very much that people feel the need to make this personal in any way.

A couple of the posts above underline why I said that is terrible for CDZ. I'm not so naive to say that we were one happy family, but I wonder how long the effects of this is will haunt us. Bottom line for me is that we should respect each other's point of view regarding this topic. I must say that I have missed this respect in a number of posts

[Melifluous]

EDIT!

COMPLETELY REMOVED MY LAME A$$ WHINGINGS

EDIT!

Vive la revolution!

Melifluous

[Melifluous]

In fact I'm going into hiding now...


3.74KB

Melifluous

[ProPain]

It's obvious people have different views on CDZ and the laddder games. Whether you like CDZ best for the social interaction, the ladder games or both doesn't really matter, as we're here for both. But respecting each other's opinion and feelings about this is necessary to keep it a fun place to be.

I can imagine that someone who has spent hundreds of hours on a game has different feelings about being cheated than someone who spent just a few hours. Just as some people consider cheating in games is a fact of life while others strongly disagree with this. Everybody is entitled to his own opinion and feelings on this and please respect each other in this.

So much appreciated when you keep this in mind even when you strongly feel everybody is entitled to your opinion even more than their own. It would be a terrible waste when CDZ was to break up over this.

[col]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

I must say I'm shocked and amazed about the cheating, but now even more to hear these words from an off-topic moderator of one of the biggest civ sites on the internet.

For this entire topic long, col, you've been patronizing and telling those who Skyfish has been cheating what to feel, think and do, totally ignoring the fact that it is actually Skyfish that has been the one doing the wrong thing in this matter.

Its certainly not my intention to tell anyone else what to feel. That would be a waste of time. It is my intention to try to get some kind of perspective here. People cheat. In all games. It doesnt make it right. I dont think its right. I do accept it can happen. I've been known to claim goals at footie when I was offside. One of the reasons I was appointed OT mod was precisely because I can understand a variety of views without imposing my morality on everyone else.

quote:
Or maybe, using your moral standards, it isn't that way at all.

If you feel that things such as trust and moral standards should play no part in things done online because you feel that you see cheaters everywhere, I'm glad I'm not involved in any project with you, or know you in any way at all. Not only are IMO your moral standards repulsive, you also continuously feel the need to stress the fact that those involved should get over having lost the game and get on with life, without understanding that the reason those persons might be angered is not related to the game at all, but to the fact that a person, that you have talked to for more than 2 years on an almost daily basis and have even met in real life, has been lying to them for all this time without showing any remorse about it.

I do understand that you are angry - and I would be angry too in your shoes. You probably feel hurt and betrayed. Quite naturally. Who wouldnt? But where does that get you? Until you let go of your anger, you won't move forward. And yes if the language sounds familiar - I am a trained counsellor.

quote:
Obviously, looking at what you've posted so far, you think that such betrayal should be regarded as normal human interaction, but to then continue with calling those who do have high moral standards, and feel the need that judgment should be passed on those who have broken their trust, sad individuals is really beyond me and shows me that I should pity a certain administrator from a certain civ3 site for entrusting someone like you with moderatorship for the biggest forum at his site.

I do realise that people are human and make mistakes. No one is perfect and we have all done things that we regretted later. I have every sympathy towards you, Kemal. I also have a lot of sympahy for Sky. I imagine he doesnt feel too good either.

As for my OT modship, as long as TF is happy, then I'll continue. I dont please everyone all the time but I do my best.

[Kemal]

Obviously my anger did get the better of me when I made my post, and I shouldn't have pointed it all in one post at you directly col, even though I do not agree with the things you said in your earlier post.

My apologies for posting my thoughts about this here directly in this topic, which was not the correct way to do so.