Civ IV: whenever it comes, what do we want in it?

Beam · 09-06-2004, 21:10

According to CFC work on Civ IV has started, whatever that means. There also is a subforum with suggestions at CFC cluttered with the usual nittywitty junk.

Therefore a seperate thread here to collect our thoughts how a succesor to Civ III can improve the PBEM / MP gameplay we enjoy so much even more.

Imo there are a couple of areas, some technical like having a turn exchange mechanism being better supported and functional areas like Diplomacy, multiple goals, smarter AI but also looking at concepts like SMAC, MoO etc. or even previous Civ versions.

As an example, I really enjoyed the Spies in Civ2 much more than the current Espionage implementation in Civ3, although Spies in Civ2 were way to powerfull, including the silly thing that it was cheaper to convert a city from the side furthest away from the cap. So I'd like to see unit based spying back but not as powerfull as in Civ2, unless the AI knows how to handle it as well.

Although the AI has become better and better there is a lot of room for improvement there as well but my gut feel is that unless their is a mechanism that enables the game to "learn" from Human Play the best achievable AI play is equal to the best human player at Firaxis at best.

Some thoughts, feel free to comment and / or contribute!

Socrates · 09-06-2004, 21:46

We know that Civ4 is rewritten from zero, which is a very good thing. I hope the results will be a lot better, and also feel quite different.

First thing to have : a damn better AI !!! It's so important in my eyes, and even in 1v1 PBEMs it could be good. Some strategy games already seem to have AIs which don't get any bonus like they have in Civ3. I hope they will be able to get to that point or approach it fairly : the hardest level AI shouldn't cheat at all, and lower levels AIs should get some anti-bonuses and play worse. This is by far the thing I want most with this new version of my favourite game.

To answer Beam, I prefer spy missions and trade the way they are handled in Civ3, I found that diplomats and spies in Civ2 were too powerful and not civ-scaled. Though I'm sure Civ4 could do a lot better in such a way.

Socrates · 10-06-2004, 00:26

Another thing I wanna add here : language compatibility !!!

Civ3 did an awful job of this. I'd like Civ4 to be 100% compatible for the whole world (at least the Western world). I don't think it's hard to achieve BTW. And yes it can be good for PBEMs because... imagine 2 people want to play a PBEM using a mod, but one has a US version, the other one has a French version : they can't play because it will end up in errors when loading the mod (unless it is well translated).

Firaxis, this is important. If this isn't made properly, I'll just skip the game. If the game is too good in other sides... I'll just get a crack.

Shabbaman · 10-06-2004, 10:01

What I want from civ4:

- a decently tested program: less patches, less bugs!
- multiplayer: no more add-ons!
- all civs that are currently in civ3: no more add-ons!

To summarize: I don't want to get ripped off by paying for PTW2, and having to wait for C3C2 (or C4C) to get the options that came with PTW2 to work.

Col.Tarleton · 16-06-2004, 16:36

I hope that civ 4 will be an entirely new game based on Sid Meiers civilisation.I don't know if Sid still works for Firaxis but he's the games brains of the outfit.The programmers are important but without the games genius of 'ol uncle Sid it will merely be tweaks on civ3+ PTW + conquests.We'll just have to wait and see.

Shabbaman · 17-06-2004, 10:14

Plus 3d, of course

Swingue · 17-06-2004, 17:08

What would be an interesting option for me is to play with more people in one team in one civ. Especially when playing real time you can have teams fighting each other where players are dealing with various items in the game, eg. military, trade, exploring, etc.
To make this work there must be even more detail in the game.

Shabbaman · 17-06-2004, 22:03

You mean like "governors"? That's an interesting idea.

Swingue · 17-06-2004, 23:16

I don't exactly know how but I like the idea that you work as a team together and play civ.

I really enjoy the ISDG and games PP and me play against the AI.

It could be that you need more governors so you have to work as a team.

Banzai · 18-06-2004, 08:22

I think it would be cool if you can find or capture artifacts in the game.
If you find one and bring it to a city it will provide additional culture, gold or happiness.. something like that.
It is like a great wonder that can not be build. It has to be found on the map or captured from another civilization.

Banzai!

09-06-2004, 21:10	#1
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Civ IV: whenever it comes, what do we want in it? According to CFC work on Civ IV has started, whatever that means. There also is a subforum with suggestions at CFC cluttered with the usual nittywitty junk. Therefore a seperate thread here to collect our thoughts how a succesor to Civ III can improve the PBEM / MP gameplay we enjoy so much even more. Imo there are a couple of areas, some technical like having a turn exchange mechanism being better supported and functional areas like Diplomacy, multiple goals, smarter AI but also looking at concepts like SMAC, MoO etc. or even previous Civ versions. As an example, I really enjoyed the Spies in Civ2 much more than the current Espionage implementation in Civ3, although Spies in Civ2 were way to powerfull, including the silly thing that it was cheaper to convert a city from the side furthest away from the cap. So I'd like to see unit based spying back but not as powerfull as in Civ2, unless the AI knows how to handle it as well. Although the AI has become better and better there is a lot of room for improvement there as well but my gut feel is that unless their is a mechanism that enables the game to "learn" from Human Play the best achievable AI play is equal to the best human player at Firaxis at best. Some thoughts, feel free to comment and / or contribute! __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

09-06-2004, 21:46	#2
Socrates Emperor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,946	We know that Civ4 is rewritten from zero, which is a very good thing. I hope the results will be a lot better, and also feel quite different. First thing to have : a damn better AI !!! It's so important in my eyes, and even in 1v1 PBEMs it could be good. Some strategy games already seem to have AIs which don't get any bonus like they have in Civ3. I hope they will be able to get to that point or approach it fairly : the hardest level AI shouldn't cheat at all, and lower levels AIs should get some anti-bonuses and play worse. This is by far the thing I want most with this new version of my favourite game. To answer Beam, I prefer spy missions and trade the way they are handled in Civ3, I found that diplomats and spies in Civ2 were too powerful and not civ-scaled. Though I'm sure Civ4 could do a lot better in such a way. __________________ Sent from my Debian

10-06-2004, 00:26	#3
Socrates Emperor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,946	Another thing I wanna add here : language compatibility !!! Civ3 did an awful job of this. I'd like Civ4 to be 100% compatible for the whole world (at least the Western world). I don't think it's hard to achieve BTW. And yes it can be good for PBEMs because... imagine 2 people want to play a PBEM using a mod, but one has a US version, the other one has a French version : they can't play because it will end up in errors when loading the mod (unless it is well translated). Firaxis, this is important. If this isn't made properly, I'll just skip the game. If the game is too good in other sides... I'll just get a crack. __________________ Sent from my Debian

10-06-2004, 10:01	#4
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	What I want from civ4: - a decently tested program: less patches, less bugs! - multiplayer: no more add-ons! - all civs that are currently in civ3: no more add-ons! To summarize: I don't want to get ripped off by paying for PTW2, and having to wait for C3C2 (or C4C) to get the options that came with PTW2 to work. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

16-06-2004, 16:36	#5
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	I hope that civ 4 will be an entirely new game based on Sid Meiers civilisation.I don't know if Sid still works for Firaxis but he's the games brains of the outfit.The programmers are important but without the games genius of 'ol uncle Sid it will merely be tweaks on civ3+ PTW + conquests.We'll just have to wait and see. __________________ Basil!!!!!

17-06-2004, 10:14	#6
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	Plus 3d, of course __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

17-06-2004, 17:08	#7
Swingue Prince Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Looking for grandchildren. Posts: 659	What would be an interesting option for me is to play with more people in one team in one civ. Especially when playing real time you can have teams fighting each other where players are dealing with various items in the game, eg. military, trade, exploring, etc. To make this work there must be even more detail in the game. __________________ If violence doesn\'t work, use more violence! ================================================ Swingue got a new pair of eyes, 20/20 vision now

17-06-2004, 22:03	#8
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	You mean like "governors"? That's an interesting idea. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

17-06-2004, 23:16	#9
Swingue Prince Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Looking for grandchildren. Posts: 659	I don't exactly know how but I like the idea that you work as a team together and play civ. I really enjoy the ISDG and games PP and me play against the AI. It could be that you need more governors so you have to work as a team. __________________ If violence doesn\'t work, use more violence! ================================================ Swingue got a new pair of eyes, 20/20 vision now

18-06-2004, 08:22	#10
Banzai Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 1,226	I think it would be cool if you can find or capture artifacts in the game. If you find one and bring it to a city it will provide additional culture, gold or happiness.. something like that. It is like a great wonder that can not be build. It has to be found on the map or captured from another civilization. Banzai! __________________ I see your face when I am dreaming. That\'s why I always wakeup screaming.