Civ4 SGOTM 2 - Page 4

Shabbaman · 03-08-2006, 08:14

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by socralynnek

maybe try for a Metal Casting slingshot with Oracle?

That didn't really work out that good in our previous game, did it?

We could try of course, but we're seriously handicapped because of that stupid capital start. An early second city will hurt our research as well. So by the time we can build the oracle it might already be almost completed. I don't know if we should chop for that.
Besides, the AI got that oracle so fast in the previous game that I wouldn't be surprised if that was modded in some way. We should look into that, probably.

socralynnek · 03-08-2006, 09:59

If we go for Oracle before we build a third city (which would hurt us also much), I think building Oracle is possible, but CS slingshot is not possible cause we can't research CoL fast enough.
Researching Priesthood won't take that long.

For an Oracle-> MC slingshot we'd need: Myst , (Poly or Medi) , Priesthood , BW , Wheel and Pottery. We probably also want Agri.

I don't think that's impossible, but surely we don't know if there's an AI that is modded to go for the Oracle (something they only priorize when they can't build a Settler cause they have no space left.
What else would we need to build in second city? Warrior, Worker, workboat, another warrior or Rax?
So, I think a MC slingshotwould be doable and trying won't hurt much cause there is no useless or expensive tech on that path(ok, Priesthood itself) and if we at least partially build it we get some money for our research.

socralynnek · 03-08-2006, 10:11

Our team thread at CFC is open, please post once in this thread to say you are there and Tubby please post in the signup-thread first.

BCLG100 · 03-08-2006, 11:15

i think we need to put the oracle slingshot out of our minds, its usefull but not the be all and end all, we also have very little chance of getting it with the need to adequatly defend our city against the raging barbs and aggressive AI, however i think we have a reasonable chance of getting the Colossus which would be highly beneficial considering the amount of water tiles we have under our borders.

Samson · 03-08-2006, 11:31

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by BCLG100

it was a joke socral

Well we wouldnt really, growing to size 2 would take about the time it would take to research 3/4 of BW and then building the worker would take the rest of the time it would take to research myst as well.

I think any reserch will have to wait a lot longer than growing to size 2. I reakon it is going to take both citys to get to size 3 before we can break even. The more I think about it the more it seems ot be worth moveing the settler east to get it closer to the capital.

About rushing in the capital; every rush give 1 unhappiness, rather than 1 unhappiness for each pop killed. So in pure pop / hammers it is more efficent to rush at smaller size. However if you take into account the work that the citizen can do in these 15 turns it may well be worth waiting for the capital to grow significantly then rush a load of pop. The other question is what are we going to be building? in the early game it is only going to be the work boats. It may end up that we will be rushing wonders in this city just because we have no other use for the pop.

For me the big thing is going to be getting bronze working and copper before too many barbs turn up, and getting CoL for the courthouses and FP before we are totally left behind.

BTW, our thread is at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...33#post4355733

socralynnek · 03-08-2006, 12:17

GPP could also be very useful in our capital if we don't know what to do with spare pop.

And I do think that we can research at 50-60% and break even. In the savegame you posted we could even be at 70% or so.

Want to calculate it:

It seems the formula is: DistanceMaint = (Pop + 7) * 2.5 * Distance/DistanceScale * Building_m * WorldSize_m * Handicap_m (CVCity.cpp line 4899 if someone has the SDK)

Building = 0.5 if courthouse otherwise 1
Handicap =0.9 for monarch
worldsize=0.8 for standard

DistanceScale = (MapHeight + MapWidth) {from CvMap.cpp L925} (here probably 84+52=136, or what is size of a standard fractal map?)

So in our case:

(Pop+7) * 2.5 * dist/136 *0.8*0.9 =(pop+7) * dist / 75.5 without courthouse

assuming our cities are 40 tiles on W-E axis and 20 tiles on N-S axis apart (dist 50) this means:

at size 1: dist cost 5.3 (probably 5 cause of rounding down)
each additional pop costs o.66 gold

if both cities are at size 1 we already produce 13 trade (8 from Palace), so we should be able to spend 8 beakers per turn at start.

phew, that was hard...

BCLG100 · 03-08-2006, 13:55

Ok i updated our thread with everything so far from here, hope everyone doesnt mind but we may as well get it partially updated now.

Anyone know of a quicker way other than copy and pasting?-it does take awhile.

Samson · 03-08-2006, 13:59

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by BCLG100

Ok i updated our thread with everything so far from here, hope everyone doesnt mind but we may as well get it partially updated now.

Anyone know of a quicker way other than copy and pasting?-it does take awhile.

I volenteered to write a little script to generate the text, but I did not get a responce from Meli about access to the server. If you want me to do this, is there anyone else I could contact?

Shabbaman · 03-08-2006, 14:20

Propain. Meli's on holiday, I think...

BCLG100 · 03-08-2006, 14:26

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Samson

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by BCLG100

Ok i updated our thread with everything so far from here, hope everyone doesnt mind but we may as well get it partially updated now.

Anyone know of a quicker way other than copy and pasting?-it does take awhile.

I volenteered to write a little script to generate the text, but I did not get a responce from Meli about access to the server. If you want me to do this, is there anyone else I could contact?

Ok well sorry for stealing your thunder then

must have missed your post about that and so i thought we shouldnt get too far behind

03-08-2006, 09:59	#32
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	If we go for Oracle before we build a third city (which would hurt us also much), I think building Oracle is possible, but CS slingshot is not possible cause we can't research CoL fast enough. Researching Priesthood won't take that long. For an Oracle-> MC slingshot we'd need: Myst , (Poly or Medi) , Priesthood , BW , Wheel and Pottery. We probably also want Agri. I don't think that's impossible, but surely we don't know if there's an AI that is modded to go for the Oracle (something they only priorize when they can't build a Settler cause they have no space left. What else would we need to build in second city? Warrior, Worker, workboat, another warrior or Rax? So, I think a MC slingshotwould be doable and trying won't hurt much cause there is no useless or expensive tech on that path(ok, Priesthood itself) and if we at least partially build it we get some money for our research. __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.

03-08-2006, 10:11	#33
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	Our team thread at CFC is open, please post once in this thread to say you are there and Tubby please post in the signup-thread first. __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.

03-08-2006, 11:15	#34
BCLG100 Deity Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lahndan Posts: 6,220	i think we need to put the oracle slingshot out of our minds, its usefull but not the be all and end all, we also have very little chance of getting it with the need to adequatly defend our city against the raging barbs and aggressive AI, however i think we have a reasonable chance of getting the Colossus which would be highly beneficial considering the amount of water tiles we have under our borders. __________________ the sooner you fall behind, the more time you\'ll have to catch up! CDZ Cup Champion!!!

03-08-2006, 12:17	#36
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	GPP could also be very useful in our capital if we don't know what to do with spare pop. And I do think that we can research at 50-60% and break even. In the savegame you posted we could even be at 70% or so. Want to calculate it: It seems the formula is: DistanceMaint = (Pop + 7) * 2.5 * Distance/DistanceScale * Building_m * WorldSize_m * Handicap_m (CVCity.cpp line 4899 if someone has the SDK) Building = 0.5 if courthouse otherwise 1 Handicap =0.9 for monarch worldsize=0.8 for standard DistanceScale = (MapHeight + MapWidth) {from CvMap.cpp L925} (here probably 84+52=136, or what is size of a standard fractal map?) So in our case: (Pop+7) * 2.5 * dist/136 0.80.9 =(pop+7) * dist / 75.5 without courthouse assuming our cities are 40 tiles on W-E axis and 20 tiles on N-S axis apart (dist 50) this means: at size 1: dist cost 5.3 (probably 5 cause of rounding down) each additional pop costs o.66 gold if both cities are at size 1 we already produce 13 trade (8 from Palace), so we should be able to spend 8 beakers per turn at start. phew, that was hard... __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.

03-08-2006, 13:55	#37
BCLG100 Deity Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lahndan Posts: 6,220	Ok i updated our thread with everything so far from here, hope everyone doesnt mind but we may as well get it partially updated now. Anyone know of a quicker way other than copy and pasting?-it does take awhile. __________________ the sooner you fall behind, the more time you\'ll have to catch up! CDZ Cup Champion!!!

03-08-2006, 14:20	#39
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,493	Propain. Meli's on holiday, I think... __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"