4x4 CIV *Spoiler*

[Kemal]

The run of bad news continues...

There has been a huge error in my previous spoiler post, where I was raving about grs grabbing stonehenge and a shrine etc. That would have been bad, but the truth is even worse, especially since it has come forward now that the civ building the stonehenge (1200BC) and the mahabodhi (325BC) also has completed the Pyramids in 200 BC.


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Worst of this all is that it is, in fact, an AI that is doing so, with near certainty Egypt. This due to the fact that all these wonders are located in a city founded in 4000 BC, while our first turn was 3960 BC.

Apparently, they found it necessary to:

- Get buddhism
- Build stonehenge (civilopedia says no priests can be put to work in stonehenge, is that correct? I think I remember otherwise but I never built stonehenge with the current version of civ4)
- Build a temple -> put a priest specialist in it.
- Get 100 GPP for a prophet in 29 turns (average of over 3 GPP/turn since completing stonehenge)
- Start working on Pyramids
- Build mahabodhi for free for grs/darkness to grab
- Build pyramids in 37 turns
- Obviously diregard expansion and military to give all kind of free presents to human players there.

I'm assuming access to stone and a fairly decent production site for their capital is to blame for this disaster, but even then... the AI on matrix/my continent would not have been able to finish a wonder in a thousand turns looking at their growth, production and economic capabilities.

And since grs didn't even build the mahabodhi and still made such progress in score, it fuels the alliance-theory even more.

Maybe I'm regarding things worse than they are atm, but a free Pyramids and Mahabodhi plus a possible cooperation on the other continent makes things look really tough for Mali.
All I can hope is that they won't organize an oversea-attack, since those are extremely costly and inefficient in civ4, and that discord between the two arises rather sooner than later.

Plus, I was wrong on grs and his wonders too, so maybe things are totally different than I present them here. Time will tell I suppose.


In the meantime I've captured Antium losing a level 3 horseman, now having routed them from the lands between me and Matrix permanently. Offensive will stop now, with the axe being on the lookout for any approaching praetorians.

[Kemal]

Some latest developments in this game, lots of wonderful things going on here.

We're now at 25 AD, and the Malinese Empire has now a period of increasing prosperity for the past few hundred years. GNP and food output in particular have been on the increase again, which can most easily be illustrated by comparing the 25 AD demographs with the one shown earlier from 250 BC:


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One reason in particular for the increase in GNP can be found in the fact that around 50 BC bureaucracy was adopted, so a lot more gold coins and (a few) hammers appeared sticking to all the red tape in Timbuktu, but another factor is a recently completed great project in Djenne:


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At only 200 shields, an immediate increase of 13 raw commerce was generated throughout the empire, with atm almost exclusively running domestic trade routes. With the advent of harbours - and more developed foreign empires - that statistic will probably only increase further.

In the meantime, my project of trying to grab the Parthenon failed as Darkness obviously has a source of marble too, as he completed this 400 hammer wonder in the same city only 12 turns after the Lib, averaging 33 hammer/turn. With the top mfg goods producer after me being at 42, I guess the local wildlife around Darkness's capital has suffered badly in recent years.

But, not a big problem as I already had invested 212 hammers in it which are conveniently transformed in 212g, which can be put to splendid use for my money burning research projects. After Civil Service, Metal casting follows in 3, with the long term target now being Optics to start producing caravels, and perhaps later Banking for Mercantilism.

On the diplomatic front things have been quiet, I'm at very good footing with Matrix, and he can buy my techs at a big discount, and some even at a get-now-pay-later base, since his development will boost my development as well. Now only to extort theology from these rotten Romans... Rome and Antium are beginning to feel the effects of war unhappiness as our fighting continues, and especially Rome needs to be transformed into a GP-factory quickly, thus needing rapid growth/extra happiness. It could be I will be pushed into a peace deal soon anyway...

To conclude, christianity unfortunately spread to Monty via Cumae, so now he's starting to get pissed again with me. Last thing I need is even more foreign routes closing... but that's what you always get when having Monty and Caesar on your landmass, the most aggressive AIs available after all.

Will keep you guys informed.

[Kemal]

Right, so one turn later cautious Monty closed open borders, and I managed to lose a level 3 horse archer vs a Roman archer.

[Kemal]

Time for another update, we're now at 300 AD, and things have been looking up for Mumal's empire in recent times. Most important issues at the moment concern domestic issues, as Mali has shifted to a full blown buildup of the economy, without losing sight of any long term achievements of course.

Most important asset to the Malinese civilization has been the completion of a great wonder, The Hanging Gardens, in Timbuktu. Even though the Malinese capital, under Civil Service, was the center of economic activity at population 12, and stone was available do double production for the gardens, it was decided in 225 AD to pop rush the last 90 shields for 3 pop points, instead of waiting another 3 turns for completion.

Main reason was of course the lessons learned after the Great Lib debacle several hundred years earlier, missing that on 1 turn. Since the Gardens have a permanent plus immediate effect, it imho makes it one of the most important ancient wonders. With 9 cities at that time, the immediate effect would be +9 citizens around the empire vs 3 being taken away in Timbuktu, one of which would be immediately reassigned due to the Gardens. Seemed like a valid deal to me, so a pop rush it was.

In addition, a great prophet was born only a few years earlier in Timbuktu, constructing the Kong Miao in Djenne for an extra 5gpt, for now.

This is what the empire looks like right now:




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Matrix has been fighting the Romans with some succes, liberating them of the Christian holy city, and sending Caesar to Davy Jones' locker in the process. Theology, unfortunately, died with them.


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A good thing about this all is that Rome and Antium lost all their annoying unhappiness due to yearning to their mother country, so the GPP machine Rome is nearing its final stage.

In the meantime, I've been giving Monty some free stuff I sold to Matrix earlier, but even though he is now at +3 with me, still no open borders to be seen. Still, better than Matrix who, despite sharing the same religion, is now at -3 with Monty. War seems imminent there.


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Despite the lack of trade routes due to closed borders, GNP has skyrocketed lately, which is shown in the following demograph:


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The money from sales to Matrix and the failed Great Library is almost gone though, but Optics is almost in the bag, and a caravel will start exploration soon. Philosophy will follow in 3 turns, to enable pacifism and maybe grab Taoism, which can prove to be useful later for free religion.


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As for the other continent, grs and Darkness are still very close in score, the gap remains about 80 points, which considering the extreme gap I discovered via the demographs (the no3 has 52 GNP only, food and mfg goods are nearly identical though) reinforces my idea of cooperation there, as it should be impossible for these two civ to research at the same speed with such a gap in GNP it seems to me, but nobody seems to break away with a tech lead there though.

A nice bonus was that Darkness's GP-gambit (using the GL/Parthenon and possibly National Epic) has resulted in the following person to be born:


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A great Artist, to be sure. Not at all useful imho.

To summarize, some good progress economically, but the strong position of Darkness and grs combined is still reason to remain cautiuous at this point, as diplomacy remains a major factor in civ4.

[Kemal]

Hmm, looks like grs just captured Thebes, as it disappeared from the top cities and his score just increased by 150 points. 4 extra wonders for him there, not good.

Darkness used his artist to culture bomb a size 4 city it seems... not sure what to think of that either.

More to follow later.

[Kemal]

We've found him, commander

From the overambitious military advisor of the Malinese empire (he obviously didn't come up with this himself, I suppose some here might recognise the speech's origin..):


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This is GRS, and he's causing the Malinese Empire much grief. His views do not coincide with ours, and that makes him dangerous.


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For too many years GRS has maintained a stranglehold on Egypt. It has fallen upon us to liberate these citizens crying out for a better way of life. Overwhelm their cities, and don't leave them standing. Military advisor out.

Hmm, right, back to Kemsa Mumal again:

We're now in the year 620 AD and a brave caravel made it over the ocean to meet the Inca, which are led by grs. The initial diploscreen came up as this:


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A lot of info here, most striking of course being that he is quite advanced, though of course most of these techs are side-techs or low budget techs such as music and construction. Paper though, is directly on the route to Liberalism which is his likely target I suppose, especially if his companion (I don't doubt shared research has been the key to his technological status) Darkness is researching/has already researched Philosophy. His impressive looting of the Egyptian vaults also spells bad news for the Liberalism run.

As the mil advisor pointed out, Egypt must be nearly wiped out, since besides his 5 own cities grs also owns 4 Egyptian ones, including Thebes (already known of course), so there must be room for improvement there as well. Leaves me wondering about Darkness's motives, but of course I don't really know anything for sure yet as I'm still to meet him.

There is also good news though:

firstly, grs has not a single resource I have it seems, while the list of resources he has to offer me is also not very large. Mostly they are happiness resources, so it might be healthiness could pose a problem and start capping his growth a bit.

Secondly, the 5 pictograms above the chat window give reason for a smile: Hereditary rule, Bureaucracy, Tribalism, Decentralization, Paganism.

So despite owning the Pyramids (giving access to for example police state or representation) happiness seems to be such an issue that hereditary rule is needed, which is good as it wastes the Pyramids this way. Better still, for some reason grs still clings to Tribalism and Paganism instead of slavery and organized religion, despite having founded the hinduism religion himself (and that being his state religion). Since he is not spiritual, it seems logical to assume he never has adopted either one of those ever, and should he want to do so now, he faces a more severe penalty than he would have ages ago. Lets hope he stays in these civics for some time.

In any case, I'm not going to sign open borders with him, since he will profit from my trade routes more than I will of his, and my caravel can travel through borders anyway, nor will I trade resources since I don't need anymore myself atm. I'm hoping I might find the Americans or a fleeing Egyptian somewhere along the coast, which might open trade possibilities for a tech such as construction, as well as a world map perhaps later on.

In the meantime, some good news on the GP front:


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Even though I'm struggling for commerce/beakers on my exceptionally dry lands (bad for cottages) and an academy in Timbuktu is badly needed, this fellow (a scientist) might play a crucial role in the race for Liberalism, and I might be tempted to waste him on Education instead. Will depend on the coming turns, so I'll keep you posted.

[BCLG100]

very interesting read so far kemal

[digger760]

yet another nice write up Kemal

[Kemal]

BURN BABY, BURN!!!


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What's the Big Picture?

So, and there we are again, after many weeks, with an update to the 4x4 civ4 spoiler... and a *lot* has happened, and the game is turning into one of the most interesting as well as challenging civ4 games I have ever played. Prepare for a very graphicly intensive spoiler post ahead, as I'll try to bring you all up to date on the intricities this game has to offer.


1.1
DARKGRSS FALLS ACROSS THE LANDS...

First, lets start off with the current diplomatic snakepit this game has turned into.. last time I posted, I had just met grs, and both his technological development as well as several other factors indicated that a close cooperation with darkness was ongoing.

Only a few turns later, my other exploring caravel, coming in from the west, first met the Americans (more on them later) and shortly after, darkness himself.

Both Darkness and grs were evenly developed in technological sense, and both their empires were massively blended together on their borders, with several cities bordering the others border, in principle making for difficult to defend borders, but also a good omen of these two not perceiving any military threats from each other whatsoever. (The world map can be viewed later in this post).

Adding to this the fact that each time grs left the turn unplayed for 10 days, I had to give a wakeup-call in the open thread, whereas when I had it for 2 days, darkness came along asking where it was and when it will be played, a clear indication about how well these guys knew of each others whereabouts and plans in this game, apparently.

With all this in mind, I decided I'd ask darkness for a small chat, to try and get them to confirm this situation, and see how the cards lay on the table. I'll post a part of this chat log here for the dutch to read themselves, for non-dutch speakers, I've highlighted and translated the most staggering part of the chat, which imvho contains some, hmm.... opinions quite contrary to my own regarding the gameplay in civ4. Here it is:

quote:
Marcel zegt:
Hi!
Marcel zegt:
Je stond al in m'n MSN
Kemal zegt:
he hoi, zag je niet online komen...
Marcel zegt:
nu net
Kemal zegt:
toch wel? nou des te beter zullen we maar zeggen
Kemal zegt:
ik ging zo net de 4x4 spelen, dus dat komt goed uit
Marcel zegt:
OK
Marcel zegt:
Waar wou je het over hebben?
Kemal zegt:
nou, ik had zo eens rondgekeken nu we contact hadden gemaakt, en vroeg me af of je misschien in de markt ben voor wat deals...
Kemal zegt:
het lijkt me duidelijk dat je er al een aantal hebt, of in ieder geval 1 flinke dus
Marcel zegt:
Ik zeg nooit meteen "nee" tegen deals. Wat had je in gedachten?
Marcel zegt:
Idd heb ik goede contacten op m'n eigen continent
Kemal zegt:
dat zag ik idd. met name met grs lijken de contacten.. innig, zullen we maar zeggen, toch?
Marcel zegt:
grs is een hele aardige gozer hoor...
Kemal zegt:
voordat we verder over deals kunnen praten lijkt het me ook zinnig als ik de volgende vraag stel: is die samenwerking vooral gericht tegen mij, i.e. is de doelstelling van je om hier een 2x1x1 van te maken, of spelen jullie in principe wel ieder voor zich?
want afhankelijk van dat antwoord kunnen we verder praten, lijkt me
Marcel zegt:
Da's een hele duidelijke vraag.... Als ik hier namelijk geen antwoord op geef, dan weet jij in principe net zoveel als dat ik ja of nee zeg... Dan kun je dat wel beredeneren.
Marcel zegt:
grs en ik hebben nog geen verregaande toekomstvisie. Wel hebben wij een hele duidelijke samenwerking die ons zeer goed bevalt. Deze samenwerking is zo dat er geen aparte deals tussen jou en mij kunnen zijn zonder dat ik eerst met grs overleg gepleegd heb.

Highlighted by me, for non dutch readers: I here ask darkness outright - before we become tangled into diplomatic negotiations -whether his cooperation is meant to turn the game into a 2x1x1 vs me and Matrix, or whether they still play as an empire individually.

Darkness owns up, and informs me that they have a very close cooperation, where no diplo with me can be done by either side without the other party having had a say in it. (I.e., as far as diplo with the outside world is concerned, they can be seen as a single empire). On the other hand, he indicates they have no clear plans for the future of their empire, which of course is something I'd be interested to learn more about...

quote:
Marcel zegt:
Dat wil echter niet zeggen dat jij meteen de vijand ben, maar op dit moment zijn grs en ik zeer goede bondgenoten en ik ben niet bereid om daar buitenom te gaan (=zonder zijn medeweten deals maken met andere human players)
Kemal zegt:
kijk, das een eerlijk antwoord en dat kan ik wel waarderen: jullie spreken dus met een mond, want ik weet natuurlijk genoeg van het spel om te zien dat jullie samenwerking wel zover gaat dat er eigenlijk sprake is van 1 civ met 2 palaces.
Marcel zegt:

Kemal zegt:
maar ik vraag me af, in dat bondgenootschap, hoe zie je jouw rol dan met betrekking tot het uiteindelijke einddoel van het spel, i.e. winnen?
Marcel zegt:
spacerace?
Kemal zegt:
als je jullie civs naast elkaar legt, en jullie huidige land en het potentieel daarvan vergelijkt... denk je serieus dat dat een optie is dan?
Marcel zegt:
op dit moment nog niet, maar daar komt "binnenkort" verandering in
Kemal zegt:
ik zal je vertellen hoe ik de situatie zie: het is natuurlijk onmogelijk om met een civ tegen 2 (financials, nota bene) op te boksen, dus wanneer jullie op deze voet doorgaan, gaat een van jullie 2 waarschijnlijk winnen... met spacerace wellicht

With the knowledge of their cooperation confirmed, I ask how he sees the future for himself with regard to winning the game. Since if they continue this diplomatic path, I tell him that in my opionon one of them should probably end up as victor via a space race... and comparing both the lay of the lands and the demographics in this game, clearly grs is running away from darkness in productivity/pop/land mass with an alarming rate.
Darkness agrees on the space race as the only really viable alternative, as well as grs being far ahead atm, but claims he can turns things to his advantage as he plans to claim american lands "soon".

A hollow remark imho, when looking at the current power bars, where America - with feudalism/longbowmen - is well ahead of everyone, especially darkness. Maybe grs should help him with it, that might be the idea..

quote:
Marcel zegt:
Ja, of jij moet een deal met matrix maken en er het beste van hopen
Kemal zegt:
zoals het land en de f11 nu ligt, en met de situatie die jij schetst over de samenwerking... dan zie ik daar maar een winnaar komen, want grs loopt toch echt steeds verder weg van je qua mfg/gnp en land area
Kemal zegt:
hehe, punt 1: is matrix daarvoor in de markt, punt 2 ben ik daarvoor in de markt... ik zie het spel toch echt als een 1x1x1x1 namelijk, maar goed
Kemal zegt:
bovendien... ik hoef je waarschijnlijk, gezien de score, niet uit te leggen dat matrix niet echt supra draait he?
Marcel zegt:
weet ik. Maar daar kan ik op dit moment niets aan het veranderen, totdat ik iets aan America heb gedaan.
Marcel zegt:
Matrix is nou niet echt een geweldige bondgenoot, nee. Daar heb ik zelf ook meet te maken in de "rock on" pbem
Kemal zegt:
het draait me momenteel ook niet om het bespreken van matrix' kwaliteiten in civ4, moet ik zeggen
Kemal zegt:
maar goed, ik begrijp dus goed dat jullie het land in 2 hebben gedeeld, en samenwerken tot aan de space race, althans dat is jouw visie.
Kemal zegt:
die jij hoopt te winnen
Marcel zegt:
yep

Marcel zegt:
Of dat lukt is een heel ander verhaal, maar ik heb een deal met grs en die ben ik niet bereid te verbreken.
Kemal zegt:
ook niet als dat je winstkansen zou vergroten?
Marcel zegt:
Nee. Ik heb een deal gesloten en daar hou ik me aan.
Kemal zegt:
in principe heb je dus 50% van je medespelers buitengesloten qua diplomacy nadat je ergens na 20 turns een deal hebt gesloten met grs, en vice versa...
Marcel zegt:
Daar komt het nu wel op neer. Ik heb die deal gesloten om te voorkomen dat ik aan de verkeerde kant van een 2-1-1 terecht zou komen.
Kemal zegt:
okee, das helder. dan hebben we verder denk ik weinig te bespreken

After some talk about Matrix being in no position to function as an ally to me, we get the infamous passage that stand totally against my views on the game: Darkness confirms the spacerace plan, and indicates that even if he can't win anymore, he will still not break the deal with grs, even if this would mean his win-chances would increase.
He agrees this means that 50% of the players in this 1x1x1x1 have been shut out of the game permanently before they even had a chance to meet other people, but in his opinion, that is a logical effect of a setup like this map offers.

To sum up:
Darkness will consciously act as grs's vassal and will not prevent him from winning, even if darkness himself can't win the game anymore, while breaking the agreement would mean he could.

To each his own of course, but why you would want to play civ4 multiplayer without having the goal to win the game yourself is beyond me. Oh well, maybe he will see things differently later on, as situations change? Lets hope so.

In short, this means that from now on, the game is a 2x1x1, which will prove to be a tough challenge, but on the other hand will lead to some very interesting gameplay I'm sure.

quote:
Marcel zegt:
Daar komt het wel op neer. Wellicht was dit ook te verwachten gezien de indeling op de continenten? Die situatie laat in principe 3 opties open. 1 - oorlog tussen de 2 humans op het continent. 2 - onafhankelijke ontwikkeling. 3 - Alliance. Optie 3 leek grs en mij de beste keus in de "strijd" met de 6 andere civs.
Kemal zegt:
je hoeft je tegen mij niet te verdedigen... wellicht zou het prettig geweest zijn als jullie matrix en mij even hadden ingelicht voor de game, zodat we simpelweg een 2x2 hadden kunnen spelen met permanent alliances...
Kemal zegt:
nou ja, een (en na dit verhaal wellicht 2) van de 6 andere civs zal in ieder geval waarschijnlijk wel de winnaar van deze game gaan bepalen, dat lijkt me duidelijk

Stupid remark from my side, hinting at my discomfort with the fact that they continue the game as one, I state that due to their actions, at least one of the other civs will have the deciding vote on who wins the game (by concentrating full force on one of the two and letting the other proceed with the space race unharmed). This obviously indicates that hostilities will break out instead of me aiming to race them both technologicly. As it turned out, hostilities were indeed to break out very shortly.

quote:
Marcel zegt:
het was niet vanaf turn 1 mijn intentie om het zo te spelen, maar gezien de situatie op het moment dat de deal tot stand kwam was het gewoon de beste optie.
Kemal zegt:
nogmaals, je hoeft je diplo niet te gaan verdedigen tegenover mij, je bent helder in je standpunten, ik weet genoeg, gelukkig hebben we dit helder gekregen voordat we over allerlei deals begonnen die ons toch alleen maar tijd zouden kosten
Marcel zegt:
Dat denk ik
Marcel zegt:
ook. het was voor ons beiden tijdverspilling geweest...
Kemal zegt:
ik zal zo straks de turn gaan spelen in ieder geval, wie weet tot laters nog eens
Marcel zegt:
OK. succes!
Kemal zegt:
heh, groeten aan grs, moet ik er wellicht nog bijzetten...
Kemal zegt:
cya

We end by concluding that any further diplomacy between us will be in vain, considering the circumstances.

So, now that the diplomatic background of the game is clear, on to other matters I'd say:

1.2 THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND, THIS LAND IS MY LAND...

Be prepared, lots of pictures ahead!
After meeting the americans (as said above), it didn;t take them very long to sell me their world map for cheap, and the great news was that they have very strong knowledge of the entire continent - including the lands of darkgrss. Considering the way this game is panning out, world map knowledge becomes crucial for the strategic side of gameplay, and will not be gained easily from other human players. AI, on the other hand, does not know these limitations, which is why getting contact with the others before they annihilated the AI was of prime importance. Here is what information Mali received from the American maps (current date 720 AD though):

First of all, grs's lands:

Southern part:

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Middle part:

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Northern part:


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Western part:


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And next, the lands of Darkness:

Southern part:


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Northern part:


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And for completeness, America and Egypt:

America north


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America South


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Egypt


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As can be seen, grs is quite a lot bigger than darkness, who also faces some very poor conditions with regard to the lands he currently owns. Grs clearly is the big brother of the two, and also has been the one mostly responsible for crushing Egypt (though Darkness also declared on Egypt, and currently owns the city of Alexandria somewhere on the map, probably in the unclaimed region north of his land.

Also, America is quite powerful militarywise (longbows), but does not have a lot of research potential, until all those jungles have finally been removed. Even then, grassland is potent but takes a lot of time to become of big economic importance.

Since we're at it with all the pics, and it will become handy when we visit the strategy section of this update, I'd also wanted to show an update of the Malinese lands again:

Southern Mali:

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Middle Mali:


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Middle Mali 2:


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Mali North:


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<s>Mali Castle, including Pirates of Mali-land</s>
Mali East:


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And concluding our world tour, the globe view containing everyone:


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1.3 IT TAKES STRATEGY..

With the geographic and diplomatic side of the game having been put forward, the time has come to start thinking about how Mali can best utilize available resources to have the best shot at winning the game, despite facing 2 allied financial civs aiming for a tech win.

Looking at the state of the game, there are still a lot of factors that are clearly in favour of Mali, or at least at this moment in time they are, including:

- Most importantly: full world map knowledge. Both grs and darkness still have no idea what is going on outside their own borders, giving me a powerful strategic advantage.

- The only civ capable of ocean travel/transportation. Both grs and Darkness didn't go very deep in the naval branche, and still need compass, optics, astronomy before they can build their own galleons.

- Strong seaside production centres for Mali, remarkably few/weak seabased production centres for Darkness/grs. Looking at their map, notice that grs only has 3 good coastal cities in the south of his empire (one has met an ill fate already, see pic 1), plus the weak cities of memphis and heliopolis. Darkness only has a few tundracities capable of creating naval units. Even Roosevelt doesn;t have much strength in this sector, should they take over his cities.

- +1 naval movement bonus. Trading the world map gave me the circumnavigate bonus, not to be underestimated I think on a map like this.

These first few advantages have already been partly exploited, as in the latest turn a longterm hidden (well, last update hinted at this already of course) plan of Kemsa Mumal has been completed.

Ever since it became apparent Matrix was lagging and no immediate danger, it has been a target to the Malinese Empire to get a military force over to the other end of the globe asap, to wreck some surprise damage there. The result: no more Ollantaytambo.

- Science.

Grs discovered education shortly after I met him, and the fact that now he has shifted to full tax indicates that Darkness is probably researching philosophy, with their grand plan undoubtedly being getting to Liberalism first for the free tech.
There is some cautiously good news though, as I managed to get education now too (partly lightbulbing it with the scientist), and already own philosophy myself. I have now started liberalism myself, due in 4 turns. If I can grab it, I'll pick Nationalism and start on the Taj Mahal... things look good so far on that front, but things can still change of course.

In the meantime, I also hope that Egypt might be in possession of Engineering, as both grs and darkness have it, and I don't understand why they would invent that themselves so soon. I'll meet Egypt next turn (actually I already have met them but the game won't let you contact civs in this situation


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As it stands, the main advantages at the moment are a (temporary) tech lead and naval domination. As for what is still to come, only time will tell, but one thing is for sure that this game certainly is no walk in the park. And challenging games are still the best ones, I feel.

To conclude, a final glimpse at the demographics of the current turn:


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[BCLG100]

If you can get lib in 4 turns then i would recommend you getting PP as your free tech.

it'll vastly increase your economic output and will therefore decrease the time it takes to get other techs.


also whats the plans with matrix? you not worried that the other continent might turn him when they meet?