Second Hungry Old Beast - Spoiler

[Beorn]

Originally Posted by Matrix

Now back to my realm, which is doing quite amazingly, if I may say so myself. I built the pyramids before I could really put it to use. But thanks to that, I got a great engineer exactly on the same turn as literature was invented. The earlier I have the great library, the earlier I get +12 science per turn, so there was little contemplation required on how to use that great engineer.

That was probably the largest most fateful event of the game. If you had gotten a scientist instead, maybe someone else (PP, Brunch or myself) could have managed to get GLib first, so that others would have been serious contenders to the development leaderboard. That would have changed everything.

Assuming I had gotten it, I'd still be 2nd to you (if that), but maybe close enough not to feel threatened into attacking. Stapel would've been in my sights.

If PP had gotten it, we'd have had a common target and I would've pushed for cooperation with you.

If Brunch had gotten it, he would have had the best economy, fastest astro, and maybe a chance at keeping up with extra islands. His production was pretty dismal, so idk.

Originally Posted by Matrix

Meanwhile Beorn deployed two axemen next to Phrygian, the barbarian city in the north. He asked for open borders earlier, which I refused, because he was nowhere in sight yet. He understood, then a few turns later he offered open borders again. I assumed I must've been very close to him, so I accepted. But no, still no sight of Beorn's land. I'll avoid contact with him and take Phrygian by force by surprise if he keeps it. Although it probably won't be much of a surprise.

That does look bad from your perspective, but the offer was genuine at the time. I never regret good will but ... y'know ... offense beats development so it had to turn sour ASAP or I was out

[Beorn]

Originally Posted by Matrix

Stapel told me that he and Beorn will be at war soon. Allegedly Beorn demanded something for maintaining the peace and Stapel refused out of principle. (I would too.) I suspect that Beorn has no more land left to expand to anymore.

Seeing as Pyramids+GLib was problematic, around 400BC I offered Stapel and ynnek to triple-team Groningen, split the territory favorably for them, one of them gets wonder-city. Stapel kindof agreed in principle but also wanted to wait forever, keep his 500AD peace with you and meanwhile move his troops North in case he could take some of ynnek's lands while he was away. I pressed him to join us, and the rest is history.

Originally Posted by Matrix

Another interesting thing is: Beorn has been investing in espionage into my realm...a lot! Twice already I devoted all my income in a turn to espionage into his realm, just to make sure I can still see his demographics. It's 600 vs 250 points now, or something like that. I assume he can see what I'm researching, so that's something to consider. Knowledge is very important in this game, and he might intend to pull the same trick as I did in the previous game: using spies to change my government from representation to whatever he has. But in any case, I still consider it a waste and would rather spend it on research instead anyway.

100% agreed that it's a waste to spend on espionage, but my mass-slavery strategy revolved around sacrificial altars, so I had a TON of spy points. Many spies tried to flip you out of representation only to get captured right out. Eventually, I got one to stick and it took so long, I had so much espionage stacked up, that he grabbed engineering.

Originally Posted by Matrix

Nonetheless, I don't understand how socralynnek and Beorn have been able to research faster than I do. Beorn is working on chemistry already! I've had more GPT than them almost every turn.

Demographics GNP lies to us. It counts culture as well. So with more wonders and creative +2 in every city, the count was falsified.

It took a while to get started with dry cottages and, eventually, Stapel's lands. That might also have skewed your perception of my economy: it was laughable early on with pure cottages, and then it went up very suddenly with towns, universities and printing press. Also, I enjoyed a lot more turns of 100% science thanks to wonder fail gold, another way to compensate for a dismal start.

So my GNP was a lot closer to my science output: less % to taxes, less points counted from culture.

I guess I felt too insecure with my chances, starting with the worst economy after Killer's, at least before the university boom. I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel, or a time where my economy could rival yours. Come to think of it, I should have just gone swinging for Stapel's lands right away at axe+cata and built myself up like that, then met your development with my own in annexed territories. That would also have been a much different game.

[Matrix]

I didn't realise you'd have sacrificial altars so much earlier than we had courthouses, but that explains. And I understand that I was an obvious target for those espionage points.

"University boom"? Are universities really that important? A city going from 125% science output to 150% science output surely cannot make that much difference, can it?

For sure, I didn't think it through though, because I should've gone for education a lot earlier and build Oxford University in Groningen ASAP. That was perhaps one of my biggest mistakes, along with not staying friends with socralynnek.

[Beorn]

Universities isn't that big indeed, but Oxford is if you have a highly specialized city. So are the bonuses for printing press, free religion and free speech. All of that together makes it a big boom.

[Matrix]

True, it adds up.