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Old 11-09-2007, 12:18   #1
Markstar
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Default Future of CDZ?

Hmm, first I was going to post here;
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=1841, then here; http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/to...p?TOPIC_ID=532 and finally here;
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=4269.

All confused I decided to open a new thread. I came across this thread when I was looking for some info about the future of CDZ. Recently (I guess a delayed reaction to the timeouts we had a while back), I thought a lot about what would happen if the domain would disappear from one day to the next. Who owns it? Anarres (who hasn't been here for the last two years) or PP (who isn't here much either)? Who has some database backups? Where and especially how do we meet if this site goes offline from one day to another? Who is in charge (my guess is Melifluous and Shabbaman)? I know some of the answers now (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=4269), but at that time I was thinking about it "offline".

I guess I panicked a little but it still made me think: -> Maybe a backup site might be a good idea (you can get free domains and free web space everywhere nowadays) -> Why not do a little redesign of CDZ? (Again, this was all offline - before I actually went here and saw that this actually came up before)

From my perspective, CDZ was at its height with C3C. Now, many people from the old days disappeared or moved on to other things (job, kids, Hattrick ). While I am happy that we have some new faces here, overall there is less activity on CDZ and it has become more of a meeting point to chat (correct me if I'm wrong), which is not necessarily a bad thing.
When I joined, CDZ was the place to play against elite players. It was not as big as other sites, but it had class and you could play against the best players here. A lot has changed since then and there are many large sites out there that concentrate on Civilization MP. CDZ will never be that big, but does it have to? I like it that we are a small community and imo it should definitely stay that way. But also, some fresh wind would do us good as well. Some new faces that are not only interested in playing but also want a community. Older players participating more when it comes to shaping this site. Some new features that spice things up a little.

We could invite (good) players from other sites to join us and compete with us. After all, that is how Digger got me to join CDZ.
<center>Mess with the best,
die like the rest.
</center>

[u]About the possible content changes/additions:</u>

- Redesign of the page so it is easier/more comfortable to access other content than the forum itself (for example, I never visit the start page). This information could be:
o Featured forum threads (patch discussions, interesting game spoilers, etc)
o News (Patches, rumors, ...)
o Feature announcements (see below)
o Cool design (sorry, but the current design is not the greatest and doesn't really fit Civ imho)

- Bring back the ladder!
This was an exciting feature which sadly never really took off (iirc PP was in charge and he had only limited time back then). While I regret that I hardly have the time to play Civ anymore, I think this would be an exciting feature for this site. We are a [u]Duel Zone</u> after all. []
If I were still an active player, I would really miss a cool ranking system and some statistics.

While writing this (and doing some research on it, I came across this site:http://www.myleague.com/. If we don't want to make our own ladder (or don't have the manpower to do it), maybe we can use an existing system and integrate it into our site?

- CDZ own Pitposs server/featured MP games
I don't like CIV that much, but it might be a nice thing to have a server where some games could be hosted.

- Tournaments
Besides being exciting, this may also be a good way to attract new players.

- IRC chat server
I don't use it myself yet, but wouldn't that be a good way to communicate outside of the forum?
o it may also be a good way to attract players who are reluctant to join right away
o could make some discussions much easier (I'm thinking ISDG right now)

- Featured articles
o Maybe some stories about Civ MP or MP strategies in general.
o Analysis of different strategies
o Strategy discussions


I have some experience in web design (HTML, PHP+MySQL, phpBB) and would offer some help if it is needed. I actually have VERY good experiences with this: http://ptifo.clanmckeen.com. It is a phpBB Mod (basically a new system) with a lot of cool features. Starting over may not be the worst thing to do here.
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Old 11-09-2007, 13:36   #2
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Markstar
We could invite (good) players from other sites to join us and compete with us. After all, that is how Digger got me to join CDZ.
He He thanks for the recognition.
...But we never saw a ladder match between yourself and Kemal
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Old 11-09-2007, 13:59   #3
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Markstar

When I joined, CDZ was the place to play against elite players. It was not as big as other sites, but it had class and you could play against the best players here. A lot has changed since then and there are many large sites out there that concentrate on Civilization MP. CDZ will never be that big, but does it have to? I like it that we are a small community and imo it should definitely stay that way. But also, some fresh wind would do us good as well. Some new faces that are not only interested in playing but also want a community. Older players participating more when it comes to shaping this site. Some new features that spice things up a little.
You have a good thought there, the only problem is that to bring about any change (at all), you need someone to implement it. The two people able are out of time, and I'm only good at deleting other people's posts.
I want this site to focus on a running pitboss server with weekly games (Friday Night Pitboss), possibly with replays. That should attract players. In addition to that, the front page should feature active threads (aside from the spam). That's possible now, but it has to be done manually and that takes too much time. Good topics should be flagged manually and automatically be featured. The front page doesn't need anything else.

As it is, Propain and Swingue are paying for all this. Nobody knows what to do if they forget to pay the bill. We're pretty much screwed in the current situation, IMO stagnation won't bring us anywhere.
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Old 11-09-2007, 14:19   #4
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A little kick in the butt on occasion is a good thing.

Redesign of the page
I agree 100%!

- Bring back the ladder!
"If I were still an active player, I would really miss a cool ranking system and some statistics."

Then why do you want it? I do agree some sort of overview on what MP games have been played and who won would be cool. Right now there are a significant amount of MP games with more than two players going on, so I think that should be featured; not just duels. The most simple thing we could come up with is that the winner will get one point for each human opponent.

CDZ own Pitposs server/featured MP games
"I don't like CIV that much"


"but it might be a nice thing to have a server where some games could be hosted."


- Tournaments
Bah!

- IRC chat server
"I don't use it myself yet, but wouldn't that be a good way to communicate outside of the forum?"
Anyone here who [u]does</u> chat regularly? If not, this would be a waste of effort.

Besides, almost everyone has MSN. I would like it if people would be online more often. I agree it would be fun if people would join on an CDZ mIRC channel regularly, but I don't expect that to happen if the opportunity is there.

Featured articles
We already have that. It would nice if they'd be sorted and organised though.
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Old 11-09-2007, 16:42   #5
Markstar
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by digger760

He He thanks for the recognition.
...But we never saw a ladder match between yourself and Kemal
Yes, sadly when I joined, Kemal had already pretty much stopped playing PBEMs.

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

You have a good thought there, the only problem is that to bring about any change (at all), you need someone to implement it. The two people able are out of time, and I'm only good at deleting other people's posts.
Somehow I can't believe this. There must be a few people who understand HTML and PHP (even if not, it's not that hard. Now if this were a CS-forum, I'd be more worried). As I said, I would be willing to help. I just don't have ANY skills when it comes to designing a logo (though I have a (imo) cool idea: A ring, with two units fighting (one from Civ3 and one from CIV)).

Quote:
quote:I want this site to focus on a running pitboss server with weekly games (Friday Night Pitboss), possibly with replays. That should attract players. In addition to that, the front page should feature active threads (aside from the spam). That's possible now, but it has to be done manually and that takes too much time. Good topics should be flagged manually and automatically be featured. The front page doesn't need anything else.
Hmm, the frontpage is the big weakness imho. I would like to see a menu on the left (or on top) one the forum page which shows me important/interesting information.

Quote:
quote:As it is, Propain and Swingue are paying for all this. Nobody knows what to do if they forget to pay the bill.
Exactly my point. Otoh I guess that ProPain would tell us before he decides to cut us off.

Quote:
quote:We're pretty much screwed in the current situation, IMO stagnation won't bring us anywhere.
Indeed. Imo it would be nice if we could find a way to keep CDZ up to date. Just take the spambots, for example (not that they make such a big difference on our forum). A new forum software would solve this, together with some other issues that do not work right now (popup windows are messed up) or could be nicer (like inserting a smiley where the cursor is, different test for URLs, etc).
But there is plenty of stuff that could be done...

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Matrix

- Bring back the ladder!
"If I were still an active player, I would really miss a cool ranking system and some statistics."

Then why do you want it?
Because I believe it is something many other people, who play (duel) against othere want as well. I might even be tempted to play again if there was a ladder.

Quote:
quote:CDZ own Pitposs server/featured MP games
"I don't like CIV that much"
I meant Civilization IV. It's just not fun for me. What I love about Civ is, among other thins, the expanding empire, the search for good city spots. Even though I reached Emperor, all my CIV experiences were always more or less unsatisfying.

Quote:
quote:- IRC chat server
"I don't use it myself yet, but wouldn't that be a good way to communicate outside of the forum?"
Anyone here who [u]does</u> chat regularly? If not, this would be a waste of effort.
It was just an idea. A chat server could be a good place to start spontaneous games or discuss other stuff. But it was just an idea.

Quote:
quote:Besides, almost everyone has MSN. I would like it if people would be online more often. I agree it would be fun if people would join on an CDZ mIRC channel regularly, but I don't expect that to happen if the opportunity is there.
I would. I'm rarely on MSN (and if I am I only see Stapel idling away ) but I think I would leave a window for a CDZ channel open.

Quote:
quote:Featured articles
We already have that.
Really? Where?
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Old 11-09-2007, 16:55   #6
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imho, I'd like to do a "Friday Night Fights" type of thing, but we could use Gamespy for that and do simul turns with CIV. Make them 2 hour games (small or tiny, etc).

Pitboss is really great for longterm games, and it would be really nice to have a box or 2 setup as dedicated servers for it for only CDZ to use. I may have a spare computer in the next 3 months that can do the task. I have to upgrade my wife's everyday computer(MB, processor, etc) at around Christmas, so that will leave me with an AMD Athlon 2500+ free for silly stuff. Is Pitboss ok with Linux?
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Old 11-09-2007, 17:13   #7
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Markstar

I meant Civilization IV. It's just not fun for me. What I love about Civ is, among other thins, the expanding empire, the search for good city spots. Even though I reached Emperor, all my CIV experiences were always more or less unsatisfying.
I know you meant CIV and not Civ in common. But you should know many people including me have been disappointed about Civ4 before finally enjoying it more than Civ3! It does happen in Civ4 that the fun in a certain game fades out (I never had that with Civ3), but than I just start a new one. Especially the fact that there as so many types of maps (of which I fancy fractal the most!) can give you very varied games.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Markstar
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Matrix

We already have that.
Really? Where?
I'm just referring to these kind of posts. But I agree it's not as much as I thought though. Would anyone care to write a Civ4 Stategy Guide?
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Old 11-09-2007, 20:37   #8
akots
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The main problem as I see it, is that IMO the PBEM genre is actually dying in Civ4. There are just way better MP opportunities including PitBoss. While PB enables to play games with many players, these games have too many players and too large maps making a reasonable military win essentially impossible while it were quite doable in CIv3. That is the nature of Civ4 as a game and this nature basically sucks to a certain extent.

Also, excellent scenarios in Conquests had provided ppl with endless hours of fun playing the MP versions of these. This stuff is just not there with Civ4. Another problem with ladder-type things is the great difficulty of mapmaking in Civ4. It is not impossible, it is possible but making a fully custom map takes horrendous amount of time. While map generator is OK, it still has numerous glitches and if you are left without copper or iron, you know what happens. Thus, even though there are many successful PBEMs finished, as I said previously, the genre is not what it were in Civ3.

So, in terms of features and site development, what I would like to see while agreeing completely or partially with POV of other ppl posted above is

1) More "small" PB games with 4-7 players on smaller maps.

2) Some type of regular turn-based or simul MP games without any timers may be with subs played once a week for 3-4-5-6 hours (Friday night) again with 2-3-4 up to 7 players max.

3) I'd greatly like some PB or PBEM BtS scenarios played out. May be some other scenarios or mods.

4) Forum upgrade. Unlimited (or large) number of smileys in a post is mandatory however. That spam is too good to be erased. besides, no other forum has it.

5) I don't care about front page or fancy stuff or chat.

6) No ladder for me. There were enough of that besides it is somewhat childish. If I want a ladder I'd go for GOTM in SP or PAL in MP.

7) Finally, keep them spoilers coming.
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Old 11-09-2007, 21:24   #9
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Its all about the forum and spoilers, as I think Akots was pointing out. However, I have paused and read the frontpage now that it has been updated. So occasional updates there are not too overlooked.

New blood is always good. A lot of times you can attract people to host their spoilers for whatever game here. I know a lot of the Realms Beyond Civ people have to put their spoilers somewhere else, and if the site bandwidth can handle it maybe someone could offer to host most of their spoilers here.

An idea I had was some kind of Civs 1-4 tourney for nostalgic purposes. Civs 1 & 2 would have to be some SP map, and the latter two versions multi. This is probably not feasible unless you have that collectors edition whatever they released (which I dont have and suspect many dont have).

It would be good to get some strategy articles that dont suck like the inane CFC War Academy for Civ 4. That would also attract people, and there are enough good players here to put together articles for at least most of the BTS/warlords scenarios as well as some of the new BTS features.
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Old 11-09-2007, 21:48   #10
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My PoV is very similar to akots.

I'd really like to see more spoilers however. In the RtW Pitboss only Shabba, Matrix and me are actively maintaining one afaik. With Civ III my main source for gameplay improvement were spoilers, including all comments I got in my own.

And I miss CDZ e-mail. It used to work very well in the past.

Using server capacity for Pitboss should be possible with respect to performance etc but someone needs to install it and monitor on a daily basis if everything is running fine. I'm volunteering btw.
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