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Old 08-11-2008, 17:47   #1
Matrix
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Default No CDA for me next elections (D66?)

So, this weekend there's a Christian Democratic congress and apparently they've made a few decisions I definitely do not support. First of all they force many 'neighbourhood' cafés to go bankrupt and somehow don't feel sympathy for them. Secondly it seems they really intend to attack the soft drugs market, which I think is a very very bad idea.

But there is more. Ever since the formation I've been disappointed about the numberous things. The choice of ministers for instance: all friends of Balkenende, most of them on their position not because of the expertise, but because of their political skills, which in my opinion does not serve the quality of policy making. The PvdA for instance had much bolder choices. Although they're not all very bright (Vogelaar), I love Plasterk! And Bos is more than adequate.

So I'm pretty disappointed in CDA right now. Then of course the question rises: what to vote for then? All the opposition parties just scream and shout and ask for emergency debates without thinking, except for D66. I never thought I'd ever consider this, but to me they're the only reasonable alternative. They don't just nag, but also say what's right, and give constructive criticism.

The only problem I have with D66 now is they're so-called 'crown jewels': referendum, mayor elections, and so forth. (I do support the idea of an election for the prime minister (or (cabinet) formator to be exact).) And their ministers also weren't really the brightest as well.

Luckily elections are still far away, so I still have some time to think about it.
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Old 08-11-2008, 19:10   #2
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Help a Texan out:

"They force many 'neighbourhood' cafés to go bankrupt and somehow don't feel sympathy for them."

"Secondly it seems they really intend to attack the soft drugs market, which I think is a very very bad idea."
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Old 08-11-2008, 20:36   #3
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The PvdA for instance had much bolder choices. Although they're not all very bright (Vogelaar), I love Plasterk! And Bos is more than adequate.
To quote several of the professors at the University in Rotterdam (who know him since Plasterk used to be a professor at the University of Utrecht): "Plasters is an unimaginative popular opinion-parrot with a huge fancy towards TV-time."

Not a great choice, IMHO...

And Bos is a flat-out liar. Also not a great way of advertisement for the party (although I admit he's handling the current economic situation quite well).
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Old 08-11-2008, 20:38   #4
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Help a Texan out:

"They force many 'neighbourhood' cafés to go bankrupt and somehow don't feel sympathy for them."

"Secondly it seems they really intend to attack the soft drugs market, which I think is a very very bad idea."
They're enforcing the anti-smoking law for restaurants/bars etc. that's new in the Netherlands, which is hurting the profits of the small cafes by 20-25%

They want to close all shops that sell sofdrugs legally.
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Old 08-11-2008, 21:17   #5
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They're enforcing the anti-smoking law for restaurants/bars etc. that's new in the Netherlands, which is hurting the profits of the small cafes by 20-25%
Ah, that's been making the rounds here and there. I think California as a whole has a smoking ban (in buildings), and many different cities locally have also instituted it. I thought you guys liked government telling businesses what they can and can't do Liberty is for those crazy Americans.
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Old 09-11-2008, 18:25   #6
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I thought you guys liked government telling businesses what they can and can't do
As long as the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

So in order to keep these cafés (which have a social role in addition to an economic one) I'd say excempt them for the smoking ban law, even if that is unbeneficial for the public health.

@Darkness: Bos was a liar during the last electoral campaign, but he and his party were punished for that. Now as a minister of finance I think he's doing a fine job. This job clearly fits him better.

In any case, I'm still don't consider PvdA (labour party) a serious candidate for my vote; it was only to show what CDA could have, or rather should have done better. The reason I posted this was to see whether others like you would understand my doubts. I'm especially interested in your opinion, since you voted CDA as well IIRC. (And secretly show that I won't always vote CDA by default. Which would be wrong IMO.)
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Old 10-11-2008, 15:44   #7
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I'm not sure why you are supporting private companies that cause hazard for public health. Would you support neighbourhood shops selling hazardous fireworks or asbestos products? Both instances where increased government regulations prohibited companies of making money. In the past, small businesses will have suffered because of it. If people miss out on this social interaction (apparently completely based on an activity that endangers themselves and others) simply because they can't smoke, I have my doubts on the worth of these social interactions.

Bars have had YEARS to come up with a good solution to this solution, and they collectively decided to do nothing. For years. Because they did nothing, the minister involved decided to take action. Unfortunately he decided to do this based on the protection of laborers, instead of protection of the populace.
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Old 10-11-2008, 16:23   #8
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Good point. They had their chance to come up with a solution. Still, what's happening now is rather strong. What negative consequences could it have to excempt bars with less than 50 square meter for example (except for the obvious false competition)? That's what they've done in Denmark. And in New York there are a few smokers cafés. I wonder how they regulated that.
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Old 10-11-2008, 16:57   #9
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If there would be exceptions for small bars, the number of such bars would skyrocket. Really, I agree with you that it seems really harsh. But I seriously doubt how much effort is put in attracting customers or satisfying current customers. All these people have had to get used to not smoking at work some years ago, I fail to see how you can't drink beer without smoking.
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Old 11-11-2008, 00:02   #10
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(..)@Darkness: Bos was a liar during the last electoral campaign, but he and his party were punished for that. Now as a minister of finance I think he's doing a fine job. This job clearly fits him better.(..)
I've become quiet skilled and knowledgable (due to live poker games and reading books about it) in detecting signs and gestures of lies. I picked up that Bos certainly displayed strong signs of lying during the Fortis-chapter of the financial crisis.
I hadn't read those books so I wasn't able to spot signs of lies as effectively during the last electoral campaign, so I can't comment on him there.

I once voted D66 in the early 90's. I got turned of big time by their purple ministers. Borst killing the healthcare-sector and Brinkhorst killing the agriculture-sector.

---

The current system of a 100% smoke ban is a terrible system. The thoughts and philosophies behind it all proved wrong and the consequence is that the ban can lead to mass-bankcrupcy. I fail to see how that is a good thing.
IMVHO each bar should have a legal way to allow smoking inside, without giving up the clear advantages non-smoking has, for instance by creating special secluded smoking and non-smoking sections.
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