Starcraft 2

[Kingreno]

A question about strategy.

I play a lot of 4vs4 and 3vs3. I get a good percentage of wins in games where communication is good and my team opts for an early assault, around the 6-7 minute mark. I always play as Protoss and here's what I was wondering. Recently I decided NOT to go for warpgates, but use the Gateways in the same way the Terrans do. I hotkeyed them of course, and set the waypoint al the way to the opponents base. This way I could queue up units and I could focus entirely on Microing my offensive force. This is very very succesfull as using a forcefield on the right moment can mean al the deifference in the early game.

So, any thoughts? Of course one could say: proxy pylon and shorter recharge rate is better, but does that weigh up to having to leave your offensive force uinguarded for seconds?

[ProPain]

well, not going warpgate means your losing build time and will have a smaller army.

Regular zealot build time is 38 secs
Warp in time + GW coolddown is 5 +28 = 33 secs

5/.33=15% less zealots build in the same amount of time. And not taking in to account the longer walk time to the front where a quick reinforcement can be the difference in winning or losing a fight.

What I find usefull is hotkeyíng my foward pylon. You can use a regular hotkey or use one the F5-F9 keys that are for hotkeying parts of your screen.

Let's say you hotkey pylon to F6 and main army to 1, you warpcycle will be
W -> F6 -> keep Z down and spam left mouse button -> press 1 -> use shift to add new warpins to control group -> double 1 to focus screen on main army again.

This can all be done in say 2 secs and my APM is rather low. I've been watching pro stream/VOD's and they essentially do the same as well even when in fights. Now their APM is massive so it will take them much less time, but as we're not facing pro's (yet ) that shouldn't be a problem.

In my opinion warpgate is must and beats gateway build handsdown, even with the harder micro. Only exception might be a very early mass zealot push. Then you can save 150 minerals on a Cyber core and 75 on an gas assimilator, which counts for 2 more zealots, leaves probes on mins instead of as (even more mins) and also the benefits of a cyber are smaller as you plan to move out early and Cyber+warpgate tech will take you to 6 mins gametime minimum when carried out correctly which is a normal push time as well.

[Beorn]

The only time I'd go without gates, as PP said, is when I'm pushing early zealots/towers. Usually that's my close-spawn 1v1 PvP build, 2 gates 1 forge 16 mineral probes.

In 4v4, I've had a lot of 5-0 placements using 3xlings 1xDT rushes, which were with 4 warpgates. It goes live and can hit a defenseless hatch around 6:45 if you focus your build right and your zerg friends keep them busy.

If you are VERY insecure about the placement, you either need to place it somewhere else (maybe), apply more pressure somewhere else (definitely), or build a cannon nearby (as a "training wheels" kindof last resort).

[ProPain]

Here's an interesting discussion on warpgate over at Team Liquid.

Although not exactly this subject it touches upon it at some points.

TL Ori Poster makes a statement that the offensive advantage warpgate gives in terms of short reinforcement lines translates into a defensive disadvantage as toss lacks a defensive structure like a bunker or spine crawler.

Consensus in the thread is that warpgate tech is essentially a no brainer to get as it is an upgrade without any drawbacks.

[Kingreno]

2vs2 Troubles.

Ok, me and PP are still on our way up to respectable leagues. We are having trouble playing against Zerg. Especially if it's double Zerg we are yet to win a match. We always play P/T.

I watched a few replays and I think here is where it goed wrong. We wall of our ramp (depending on teh map either our individual ramps or the main one). We do manage to kill any zerling rush 80% of the time. PP builds a Depot wall with marines. I make a zealot on hold position on a one space hole in teh wall, with a canon to back up. This sounds okay, and to be honest, a lot of interfora then suggest the game is won. NOT. We still lose. The zergs just send in wave after wave and expand as well.
If they do not rush, they expand or go for better ground units or mutalisks. We will both have made expenses for the wall and we lose 95% of the time.
I ALLLLWAYS scout after the first Pylon so we know when a 6-pool or 9-pool is incomming.

So: what do the better players do when they face ZZ?

[ProPain]

I'm starting to think we should go aggressive with heavy sentry. That way we can force field lings/baneling/roaches. and keep them at distance from our bio/gatway ball. And we should try to better use the zeals to meatshield for the ranged units.

Being too passive and turtling too long is just giving the other team opportunities to expand and get way ahead.

[grs]

My handle is grs#321 if you want to catch me online.

[ProPain]

I love that PLanescape:Torment avatar!!!!!

[grs]

Originally Posted by ProPain

I love that PLanescape:Torment avatar!!!!!

Dunno what you mean; that's a photo of me!

[ProPain]

You never looked better !