Vassals in multiplayer?

IglooDude · 10-07-2006, 15:30

I've seen the mention in reports on the 18-player pitboss game here, and Whomp just brought it up in the Civivor game (and I think "The new sheriff is in town and I only take vassal states. You don't have enough cities to be a vassal." should hereafter be called "The Whomp Doctrine").

What's the point/benefit in making someone a vassal, rather than just eliminating them?

Matrix · 10-07-2006, 15:55

You don't have to waste resources on it. While you're finishing off that smaller civ, someone else might attack you.

Tubby Rower · 10-07-2006, 16:00

you can allow them to develop commerce wise and then they gift you gpt. They will have fewer cities and therefore those cities will have less corruption/maintenance costs than if they were directly added to your empire. In extreme cases you can force them to make units and then gift them to you. A healthy stack outside the cities boundries will ensure compliance or you can kill them off.

I see this as almost an exploit except for the fact that the vassal state has to agree to it. If someone wants to play as a vassal state, then they aren't serious about winning the game. They aren't really playing because the controlling civ is basically playing the game for them. So my conclusion is that I severely frown upon it, but don't want to go as far as to ban it from games.

IglooDude · 10-07-2006, 16:00

But aren't you inviting a future backstab, probably at the worst possible time?

The vassal presumably has no shot of actually winning at that point, so they can just wait and drive in the knife at the worst possible time.

Tubby Rower · 10-07-2006, 16:04

They could. but with a stack of advanced units near their cities, you can monitor troop build up and then trim them down or prune them completely if they get uppity

Robboo · 10-07-2006, 16:24

I just dont understadn why anyone would want to play every day just to be a vassal. Equal partners in an alliance maybe. If they dont offer any benfit via resources then just raze their cities and place 1 unit there to stop barbs. tehn you can use that stack for mor eimportant thigns..like kicking in someone elses teeth.

Whomp · 10-07-2006, 16:56

The vassal state concept was started by Davemcw with Regentman. In fact, Regentman just produced a great person (Canno?) so this is another advantage of having a vassal. If Canno was a Great merchant think of the cash generated for Davemcw.

I decided to stir things up in the Civivor game since everyone was being so pleasant. We'll see how some of the alliances stand up to my aggressiveness.

Tubby Rower · 10-07-2006, 16:59

Quote:

quote:I decided to stir things up in the Civivor game since everyone was being so pleasant. We'll see how some of the alliances stand up to my aggressiveness.

you can't leave well enough alone can you?

from what I understand, it was RegentMan that brought up the idea of becoming a vassal state, not DaveMcW

Whomp · 10-07-2006, 17:03

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

Quote:

quote:I decided to stir things up in the Civivor game since everyone was being so pleasant. We'll see how some of the alliances stand up to my aggressiveness.

you can't leave well enough alone can you?

from what I understand, it was RegentMan that brought up the idea of becoming a vassal state, not DaveMcW

Well I figured I'd make a little splash in the game and the guy had a size 7 city being protected by a warrior.

I will post a spoiler for the game so you can see my start. My new position is quite a bit better now.

IglooDude · 10-07-2006, 18:07

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Whomp
I decided to stir things up in the Civivor game since everyone was being so pleasant. We'll see how some of the alliances stand up to my aggressiveness.

Personally I think that the QC will simply offer to become your vassal-alliance, noting that they each have more than one city so they do qualify.

10-07-2006, 15:30	#1
IglooDude Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Hampshire. Posts: 723	Vassals in multiplayer? I've seen the mention in reports on the 18-player pitboss game here, and Whomp just brought it up in the Civivor game (and I think "The new sheriff is in town and I only take vassal states. You don't have enough cities to be a vassal." should hereafter be called "The Whomp Doctrine"). What's the point/benefit in making someone a vassal, rather than just eliminating them? __________________ \"The new sheriff is in town and I only take vassal states. You don\'t have enough cities to be a vassal.\" - Whomp

10-07-2006, 15:55	#2
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	You don't have to waste resources on it. While you're finishing off that smaller civ, someone else might attack you. __________________

10-07-2006, 16:00	#3
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	you can allow them to develop commerce wise and then they gift you gpt. They will have fewer cities and therefore those cities will have less corruption/maintenance costs than if they were directly added to your empire. In extreme cases you can force them to make units and then gift them to you. A healthy stack outside the cities boundries will ensure compliance or you can kill them off. I see this as almost an exploit except for the fact that the vassal state has to agree to it. If someone wants to play as a vassal state, then they aren't serious about winning the game. They aren't really playing because the controlling civ is basically playing the game for them. So my conclusion is that I severely frown upon it, but don't want to go as far as to ban it from games. __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

10-07-2006, 16:00	#4
IglooDude Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Hampshire. Posts: 723	But aren't you inviting a future backstab, probably at the worst possible time? The vassal presumably has no shot of actually winning at that point, so they can just wait and drive in the knife at the worst possible time. __________________ \"The new sheriff is in town and I only take vassal states. You don\'t have enough cities to be a vassal.\" - Whomp

10-07-2006, 16:04	#5
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	They could. but with a stack of advanced units near their cities, you can monitor troop build up and then trim them down or prune them completely if they get uppity __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

10-07-2006, 16:24	#6
Robboo King Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cajun Country. Posts: 2,002	I just dont understadn why anyone would want to play every day just to be a vassal. Equal partners in an alliance maybe. If they dont offer any benfit via resources then just raze their cities and place 1 unit there to stop barbs. tehn you can use that stack for mor eimportant thigns..like kicking in someone elses teeth.

10-07-2006, 16:56	#7
Whomp King Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago. Posts: 2,388	The vassal state concept was started by Davemcw with Regentman. In fact, Regentman just produced a great person (Canno?) so this is another advantage of having a vassal. If Canno was a Great merchant think of the cash generated for Davemcw. I decided to stir things up in the Civivor game since everyone was being so pleasant. We'll see how some of the alliances stand up to my aggressiveness. __________________ If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it.--W. C. Fields