multi-human PBEM using TAM mod

[Socrates]

I'm about to start a PBEM with Paalikles using the TAM mod (Thamis's Ancient Mediterranean). It seems some people are interested to play in a game with more than 2 players, so I'm opening this thread to see if the interest is actually there. Here are some useful links to get you started :
- TAM's thread at CFC, see 1st post : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=23420
- TAM's forum at CDG : http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/index.php?h=1&pf=21
- Watorrey's site about TAM : http://civ3.watorrey.net/pages/tam.html
- Justus II's reference site about TAM : http://joe-s.home.insightbb.com/ancient_med.htm

We'd need to make sure that everyone has the exactly same version. At the moment the latest version is 2.5j. I'd require MSN addresses that I miss.

I'm away from December 25 in the evening to January 2 in the morning. If we could use the week before to set up the game, so as it starts in early Januray, that'd be cool.

[ERIKK]

i am interested, i will read the threads tomorrow to get a full picture of the mod

[grs]

I am interested, but I will have to read more too.

[Socrates]

I know Justus II is interested, but I haven't heard of him here yet. That would make a game with 4 people, maybe a bit low on such a large Mediterranean map ? Or would we play on a random map (less fun ?) ?

Any other people interested in a game about those who invented the concept of Civilization ? It's not about panzers or knights here, but about going back to the roots of glorious empires.

[ERIKK]

I rather have a Standard map with like 4 humans and 4 Demigod AI's for instance. As you can only have 8 players - a large map is too big. It would make the game boring.

[Justus II]

Yes, I am interested, sorry didn't notice this thread opened. The Large Mediterranean map is probably too big for PBEM, I'd think the Fertile Crescent map would be best. It's still historical, basically from Greece-Egypt-Persia-Arabia. The map is 100x100, but a good chunk is unsettleable desert, so it should play a little smaller. I will take a look at it (haven't worked with that map in a while) and list the civs, with some ideas as to which would be better human vs. AI. It at least keeps the historical perspective.

The Mod is very well done, I worked with Watorrey to fix some bugs and improve the documentation. It's not necesarrily "balanced", historically powerful civs tend to have more advantages than weaker ones, but I will also try to summarize some of the strengths and weaknesses of each. (I'd also be happy to play a 'weaker' civ since I have more knowledge of the mod).

[Justus II]

OK, here's a blow-up of the mini-map from the Fertile Crescent map, with all civs' starting locations marked.


46.81KB

We would have to narrow it down to 8 civs, then designate which would be human. My first guess on playable civs:

Egypt
Mycenea/Minoans (one or the other)
Lydia/Troy (again, pick one)
Hittites
Israel/Phoenica (pick one)
Assyria
Babylon
Media/Persia (pick one)

This also eliminates Kolchis and Nubia, who are furthest from the action. This gives a decent spread, without too much crowding. Then we'd have to allocate which are human or which are AI.

Some things to consider: TAM has VERY tough barbs, the starting barbs are 4/2/1 units, with def. bombard. (Starting warriors are 2/2/1 by comparison). Some civs start with barbs in the initial city radius, we may want to move those once we decide on playable civs. We could replace them with more barbs near the locations of the eliminated civs, if we wish.

Also, I updated the TAM Stats pages at my website (linked in Krys' post above), they are reference sheets for all civs/buildings/units etc. for the mod. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Justus II

Let me know if you have any questions.

Why are barbs so strong ??? With warriors being 2/2/1 and barbs 4/2/1, the best is to attack them, but they'd have defense advantages and they also have a strong firing shot when grouped together ! What's the best strategy ? (Don't tell me about building lots of archers, the expansion phase is already too slow... or is it worthy with the capital palace acting as a barracks ?)

About this map : Is it REALLY better than the large Mediterranean one ? Was anything balanced back from the Med map to this map ? We're playing the Med map with Paali ; is it that bad an idea to play as 8 civs on the Med map ?

[Justus II]

Barbs: Yes, the best strategy is generally play conservative at first, guard your workers and cities, and build plenty of warriors/archers until you can send some mini-stacks out to clear the barbs away. The palace barracks ability is critical, remember 'normal' barracks don't come around until half-way through the third age, so your capital will be your only vet units for most of the game. (There are a couple other wonders, Alex' Army is one, and of course the Romans wonder is a barracks in every city, making them an automatic military power). Generally you want your second city as your worker/settler pump (which is harder to achieve, as they are more expensive, and city sizes are smaller), so your capital can concentrate on military. I find 2 archers and a warrior or two is good for defeating barbs. (BTW, Archers are required to get barbs off mountains, most units cannot enter mountains normally). This is intentional, it limits early contact and expansion, both for humans and AI, and reinforces the 'Ancient' feel. After all, most of the first age is pre-Bronze Age. That's also why the tech pace is so expensive.

As to the map, the only problem with the Large Med map is that it's Large! Picking two civs that are near one another, as in your game, is fine, but civs from distant parts of the map may take two ages to meet one another otherwise. I personally prefer the Large Med map for solo play, but for PBEM, it will make for a very long time without contacting the other civs, especially by the time you fight your way through the barbs. We could always use the Large Med map, but choose nearby civs. I will post a start map for that one as well so people can judge for themselves.


EDIT: Here's the starting map (Note, the Massagetae were added in the upper right corner after I made this map):

46.51*KB

[Socrates]

OK thanks, Justus II ! After all I'm content that I sent you a PM telling you that TAM had landed on CDZ. I prefer to continue comments of my game vs Paali in the open thread. Up to people to decide on the map, but I hope we'll be more than 4. I now got the idea this mod REALLY isn't played like the epic game. I need to think of a new strategy... and look at what awaits us in next eras too. Refraining from expanding too fast can be a big challenge for me.