Epic 1 is out at RBCiv...

[ProPain]

Sirian,

I can understand your question to refrain from spoilers but your post really concernes RBCiv and not CDZ. Feel free to PM those individuals concerned but I don't feel comfortable with an admin from another site lecturing CDZ members in a public thread on something not CDZ related.

PP

[Socrates]

(I don't care being spoken to in a condescending way or not, nor do I care about sites and admins and stuff. )

To answer Paal straight away (PM) : No, I have nothing to do with it. I guess what was posted here just could slip through my mind once I started this game (not before some days). It just occured to me that fair play was harmed a bit, so I told Beam to refrain from posting, that's all.

@ Sirian : I said you were "very hard on rules these days", just because I remember that there was less enforcement when I joined. You're right, I didn't pop in at the beginning, only for Epic 31 !! A bit after that, you posted a looong page about rules' enforcement, and now you sound like being strict for Civ4, that's only why. But I agree with you, even on the Blue Marble mod thing. As you may have seen, there is some real interest from our side for the Epics, and I just hope both communities will get along without any problem. You should know that there are few rules around here, but I agree that every little anarchist-wannabe should at least respect other cultures... wherever they are (here or at RBCiv). Relax a bit, and prepare for some CDZ invasion soon, we have very capable players here. As for myself, Epic will be my 2nd Civ4 game only, and I have no clue how to proceed with my game.

[Beam]

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

Sirian,

I can understand your question to refrain from spoilers but your post really concernes RBCiv and not CDZ. Feel free to PM those individuals concerned but I don't feel comfortable with an admin from another site lecturing CDZ members in a public thread on something not CDZ related.

PP

Fully garee.

[Rik Meleet]

Oh come on guys;

We link to a game, created by Sirian for a very specific reason, on his RBC-website; we play it and we post openly about it. The only thing Sirian asks is to not display the game so openly but either wait till the site the game was specifically created for opens up for spoilers itself or put it in a less-visible spoiler.

For me this Epic 1 is already partly spoiled through seeing Beam's report. I did not see Akots' report fortunately and I think I will still play the game, but some of the fun is gone. I was not the one to send a complaint to Sirian, BTW.

Please hide the reports, as Sirian asks.

[akots]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal
... If you want to play their game, abiding their rules seems like a normal thing to do, doesn't it? Whether you agree with those is a second, but you can simply not play the epics if you don't.

Indee you are right. So, since the whole thing is so strict, I'm sorry I played the game and posted what I posted and I will make sure this is not repeated in the future. What else can I do to reverse the damage?

[Pastorius]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

@paal: Don't know what the fuss is about, really, it reads like a reasonable request from Sirian to me... If you want to play their game, abiding their rules seems like a normal thing to do, doesn't it? Whether you agree with those is a second, but you can simply not play the epics if you don't.

That was not my point. Although I am not so sure what he meant was spoiled here, I think it is impolite and condesending to approach the matter like he did. Especially considering that most of us know how to handle spoiler information.

It is not that I cannot accept those rules, obviously. It is the way they are presented when he comes here that bothers me. My reason for not participating over there is that I am simply not interested enough. Has nothing to do with any rules.

In fact, from time to time I tend to look over there, because normally the epics are presented with amusing quirks to them (variants they call them).

I read Sirian as someone aproximately twice my age coming over to lecture me like I was 10 years younger than I really am. And I dislike such an attitude. Of course, as I said, that is entirely my own opinion, and I talk on behalf of myself, like I always have around here.

[ProPain]

I totally agree with Paal, my problem is not the question Sirian asks but the way it is asked.

If Sirian has a problem with participants in the RBCiv not abiding by the rules of his competitionL: he can either solve it on his own forum or PM the players on CDZ.

If people want to discuss the whole RBCiv rules discussion further: I suggest you take that over to RBCiv.

[Sirian]

ProPain wrote: "I can understand your question to refrain from spoilers but your post really concernes RBCiv and not CDZ."


There are folks who belong to both communities. Is their welfare not your concern?

I'm trying to be constructive here. My apologies if anything comes across brusquely; all I want is to solve the problem in the simplest, happiest way possible. This is not the first time I've visited CDZ. There are a number of players who belong to both RB and CDZ and I've read some of their reports here in the past. This always seemed like a fun Civ community.

Try to put the shoe on the other foot. What if RB members were involved in CDZ events, and posting spoilers at RB which disrupted the fun of CDZ members who also visit RB? What if games were ruined? Would you not expect authorities at RB to take some responsibility for that? As a courtesy, if nothing else? If you came and asked for that courtesy, how would you want to be treated? To be given the benefit of the doubt? Or to be treated as an interloper whose concerns are unworthy of attention?

Spoilers threaten the integrity of our events. There is nothing more important to our tournament. Not even cheating is as big of a deal, since cheating can only spoil some of the fun AFTER the games are done being played, in the discussion phase, while spoilers can ruin games still in progress or which haven't begun yet, to ruin the actual gameplay. To us, that is way more of a big deal!

I think it is a reasonable request to ask your members not to abuse our hospitality. What is gained by trampling on our culture?

If it is CDZ policy to link to our games and tolerate spoilers and disrespect for our ways, and there is no remedy, then we may have to quarrantine your site, to ask our members who are also members here to choose between the two. They can choose you or us; their call. If it comes to that (and I hope it does not) then even if all players who are members of both communities cut us loose and stick with you, one avenue of their fun has been cut off. Maybe in that case you could argue that this does not concern CDZ at all. If any of them choose us, however, then it definitely would concern you because it would cost you membership.


CDZ members who are -not- also RB members have stepped on our sacred cow.

This is a simple matter of respect, one community to another, one culture to another. Whatever aggravation you may feel at how I've handled the matter, and however you may have done it differently, please try to set that aside and solve the problem. If you adopt a position of no tolerance for spoilers about RBCiv events that are still open, that is all I ask. We can maintain Open Borders here, and be friendly neighbors, or we can Close the borders. What do you want it to be?


- Sirian

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Sirian

If it is CDZ policy to link to our games and tolerate spoilers and disrespect for our ways, and there is no remedy, then we may have to quarrantine your site, to ask our members who are also members here to choose between the two. They can choose you or us; their call. If it comes to that (and I hope it does not) then even if all players who are members of both communities cut us loose and stick with you, one avenue of their fun has been cut off. Maybe in that case you could argue that this does not concern CDZ at all. If any of them choose us, however, then it definitely would concern you because it would cost you membership.

Aren't you overreacting just a tiny little bit?
I fully agree that RBCiv spoilers shouldn't be posted here on CDZ against your rules, but:

All PP and the others said they didn't like the way you came across. They never said anything about condoning spoilers here that spoiled the fun for RBCiv.

To then come with a threat that people would have to choose between CDZ and RBCiv is just petty and childish. If I even had a remote interest in RBCiv before this, it is now very thoroughly crushed...

@the one who complained about those spoilers to Sirian: I can not even begin to understand what kind of a silly thought came into your head to do this. If you had only PMed Beam and akots to ask them to remove the spoilers, I am fairly sure that this could've been resolved far less painfully.

[Pastorius]

Tsk tsk. Again I say: Sometimes it is better to think before you post.

Please refrain for such insults implied in your comments.

quote:If it is CDZ policy to link to our games and tolerate spoilers and disrespect for our ways, and there is no remedy, then we may have to quarrantine your site, to ask our members who are also members here to choose between the two. They can choose you or us; their call. If it comes to that (and I hope it does not) then even if all players who are members of both communities cut us loose and stick with you, one avenue of their fun has been cut off. Maybe in that case you could argue that this does not concern CDZ at all. If any of them choose us, however, then it definitely would concern you because it would cost you membership.

Personally I think Mr. Bush said it better.
Neither I nor Propain have argued against your no-spoiler idea. We have however complained about the way you handle this.

If you still cannot read/understand this, then I hope you will sometime in the future expand your horizon a little. It wouldnt hurt you if you did