Will you buy Vista ? - Page 3

Beam · 30-01-2007, 11:05

This from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista :

* Windows Aero: a new hardware-based graphical user interface, named Windows Aero – an acronym (possibly a backronym) for Authentic, Energetic, Reflective, and Open. The new interface is intended to be cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing than those of previous Windows, including new transparencies, animations and eye candy.

Not included in the cheaper Vista versions and memory recommendations are +2GB. Maybe the raison d'etre for DX10 and unless you've been waiting for it hardly a reason to buy.

* Windows Shell: The new Windows shell is significantly different from Windows XP, offering a new range of organization, navigation, and search capabilities. Windows Explorer's task pane has been removed, integrating the relevant task options into the toolbar. A "Favorite links" pane has been added, enabling one-click access to common directories. The address bar has been replaced with a breadcrumb navigation system. The Start menu has changed as well; it no longer uses ever-expanding boxes when navigating through Programs. Even the word "Start" itself has been removed in favor of a blue Windows Orb (also called "Pearl").

It is clear what has been removed and pretty vague what comes back in return. Might be a solution for ppl who have trouble finding their way in XP but I'm thinking about the AOL level there.

* Windows Search (also known as Instant Search or search as you type): significantly faster and more thorough search capabilities. Search boxes have been added to the Start menu, Windows Explorer, and several of the applications included with Vista. By default, Instant Search indexes only a small number of folders such as the start menu, the names of files opened, the Documents folder, and the user's e-mail. Advanced options allow to choose for a specific file type how it should be indexed, the properties only or the properties and the file contents or exclude it.

Progs like Copernicus already do a pretty good job there so nothing really new.

* Windows Sidebar: A transparent panel anchored to the side of the screen where a user can place Desktop Gadgets, which are small applets designed for a specialized purpose (such as displaying the weather or sports scores). Gadgets can also be placed on other parts of the Desktop, if desired.

Stuff like this already avail in Mozilla Firefox, RSS feeds etc.

* Windows Internet Explorer 7: new user interface, tabbed browsing, RSS, a search box, improved printing, Page Zoom, Quick Tabs (thumbnails of all open tabs), a number of new security protection features, and improved web standards support. IE7 in Windows Vista runs in isolation from other applications in the operating system (protected mode); exploits and malicious software are restricted from writing to any location beyond Temporary Internet Files without explicit user consent.

Two words: Mozilla Firefox.

* Windows Media Player 11, a major revamp of Microsoft's program for playing and organizing music and video. New features in this version include word wheeling (or "search as you type"), a completely new and highly graphical interface for the media library, photo display and organization, and the ability to share music libraries over a network with other Vista machines, Xbox 360 integration, and support for other Media Center Extenders.

And of course DRM which makes Vista the worldwide implementation of US law on copyright. In terms of functionality I would have to see it if there is anything it that can't be done now.

* Backup and Restore Center: Includes a backup and restore application that gives users the ability to schedule periodic backups of files on their computer, as well as recovery from previous backups. Backups are incremental, storing only the changes each time, minimizing the disk usage. It also features CompletePC Backup (available only to Ultimate, Business, and Enterprise versions) which backs up an entire computer as an image onto a hard disk or DVD. CompletePC Backup can automatically recreate a machine setup onto new hardware or hard disk in case of any hardware failures.

Not new for Windoze and only available in versions most people won't buy imo. Seems intended for corporate users but most companies already use staged installations and have a backup process in place.

* Windows Mail: A replacement for Outlook Express that includes a completely replaced mail store that improves stability, and enables real-time search. It has the Phishing Filter like IE7 and a Junk mail filtering which is enhanced through regular updates via Windows Update.[10]

So MS introduces another mail format again. Most if not all Security suites today already have functionality for phishing and junk mail and Vista won't obsolete Security suites for the simple reason it lacks anti-virus.

* Windows Calendar is a new calendar and task application.

Again another one.

* Windows Photo Gallery, a photo and movie library management application. WPG can import from digital cameras, tag and rate individual items, adjust colors and exposure, create and display slideshows (with pan and fade effects), and burn slideshows to DVD.

Should this be used or Windows Media Player 11????

* Windows DVD Maker, a companion program to Windows Movie Maker, which provides the ability to create video DVDs based on a user's content.

Another DVD maker.

* Windows Meeting Space is the replacement for NetMeeting. Users can share applications (or their entire Desktop) with other users on the local network, or over the Internet using peer-to-peer technology (higher versions than Starter and Home Basic can take advantage of hosting capabilities, limiting previous to "join" mode only)

Might be nice if you need it (does this mean install Civ once and play it on all PCs on the LAN????)

* Windows Media Center, which was previously exclusively bundled as a separate version of Windows XP, known as Windows XP Media Center Edition, will be incorporated into the Home Premium and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista.

Looks like same stuff in new licensing policy.

* Games: Every game included with Windows has been rewritten to take advantage of Vista's new graphics capabilities. New games include Chess Titans, Mahjong Titans and Purble Place. The Games section will also hold links and information to all games on the user's computer. One piece of information that will be shown is the game's ESRB rating.

For non-gamers games hardly can be a reason to make the investment but hey, I'm saying this in a gamers heaven and a future game might be the reason why ppl make the investment.

* Previous Versions automatically creates backup copies of files and folders, with daily frequency. Users can also create "shadow copies" by setting a System Protection Point using the System Protection tab in the System control panel. The user can be presented multiple versions of a file throughout a limited history and be allowed to restore, delete, or copy those versions. This feature is available only in the Business, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista and is inherited from Windows Server 2003.[11]

Corporate focussed, diskspace eater.

* Windows Mobility Center is a new control panel that centralizes the most relevant information related to mobile computing (e.g. brightness, sound, battery level / power scheme selection, wireless network, screen orientation, presentation settings, etc.).

Existing functionality under a new roof.

* Windows Update: Software and security updates have been simplified, now operating solely via a control panel instead of as a web application. Mail's spam filter and Defender's definitions will also be automatically updated via Windows Update.

yeah

* Parental controls: Allows administrators to control which websites, programs, and games each standard user can use and install.

yeah

* Windows SideShow: Enables the auxiliary displays on newer laptops or on supported Windows Mobile devices. It is meant to be used to display Device gadgets while the computer is on or off.

???????????????????

* Speech recognition is fully integrated into Vista. It is an improved version of Microsoft Speech Recognition currently working under Office 2003, with a better interface, a rich and flexible set of commands, and an extensive command-and-control capability to activate the computer by voice. Unlike the Office 2003 version, which works only in Office and WordPad, it works for dictation system-wide. In addition, it currently supports several languages: English US and UK, Spanish, French, German, Chinese (Traditional and Simplified), and Japanese.

For twenty years speech recognition has been in existence. Who uses it?

* New fonts, including several designed especially for screen reading, and new high-quality Chinese (Yahei, JhengHei), Japanese (Meiryo) and Korean (Malgun) fonts. See Windows Vista typefaces. ClearType has also been enhanced and enabled by default.

yeah, my Korean is a bit rusty though.

* Problem Reports and Solutions, a new control panel which allows users to see previously sent problems and any solutions or additional information that is available.

If any.

* Improved audio controls allow the system-wide volume or volume of individual audio devices and even individual applications to be controlled separately. Introduced new audio functionalities such as Room Correction, Bass Management and Speaker Fill.

OMG, I've been waiting for this.

* System Performance Assessment is a benchmark used by Windows Vista to regulate the system for optimum performance. Games can take advantage of this feature, reading the data produced by this benchmark in order to fine-tune the game details. The benchmark tests CPU, RAM, Graphics acceleration (2D and 3D) and disk access.[12]

Currently supported games are:

* Windows Ultimate Extras: The Ultimate Edition of Windows Vista provides access to extra games and tools, available through Windows Update. This replaces the Microsoft Plus! software bundle that was sold alongside prior versions of Windows.

Please reply if you can't live without this.

Imo the only two reasons to go Vista is if you HAVE to buy a new PC and CAN'T get XP on it OR if there is a future killer app which does not run on XP. Vista with Aero is confirmed to be power hungry and no doubt Vista without Aero also outperforms XP in this area given the system requirements. So a lot of investment in new HW is just required to run Vista and therefore wasted.

Pastorius · 30-01-2007, 11:31

How long till they stop support on XP I wonder ...

Beam · 30-01-2007, 12:03

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Paalikles

How long till they stop support on XP I wonder ...

Some guesses based on Win98:
- Introduced in 1998
- XP introduced in 2001
- Active Win98 support stopped in mid 2006 (but patches and updates still available).

So MS supported Win98 until 8 years of introduction and 5 years after introduction of the next Win. Applied to XP this would mean active support until 2009 - 2012 where imo the latter of these years is closer. This will also largely depend on the XP installed base by then, specially corporate.

Beam · 30-01-2007, 12:47

Bit long but good read by someone who has been using the Vista betas for a while and def has investigated the matter deeper than stupid me.

http://www.theeldergeekvista.com/

Some citations:

Quote:

quote:If your current system is a few years old this may very well be a good time to look into replacing it and getting Vista as part of the new system. This is no guarantee that just because a new system comes with Vista it will be a screamer and take advantage of everything Vista offers. To the contrary, there will be a ton of marginal systems (read marginal systems as junk) on the market that can barely get out of their own way to take advantage of the Vista changes. Before too long all the available systems will ship with Vista so whether to move from XP to Vista will be a non-issue if you are replacing a system.

Quote:

quote:Every time a new operating system is released there is always the issue of application compatibility. I'm sure somebody will remind me that I've said before, "Get over it" and go upgrade the applications that aren't compatible or find a different application. Unfortunately that's an additional expense you may not be willing to undertake, and in other cases, there simply may not be an upgrade or alternative application available.

Quote:

quote:Finally, be prepared to spend a lot of time working with Vista to get it working in a way that's comfortable to you and suits your style. It may or may not be a quick and easy process depending on the type of work you do and how ingrained your work habits are after a lot of years with another operating system. For me, I have to tell you it has been a long and painful process. Maybe I'm just old, stubborn, and resistant to change (some say there is no 'maybe' about it) but even after many months of beta releases and now the final release, I still haven't made the change to Vista as my primary operating system. At some point I may switch permanently, but right now I see Vista as a 'golly gee whiz eye candy' sort of exercise that I don't find overly useful or compelling for business use. For inexperienced or moderate home users the Vista Home Premium offering brings a lot of media and security features to the table that XP lacks.

Quote:

quote:Windows Vista Home Premium

This is the version that will most likely appear on the majority of home consumer variety systems. Unlike Vista Home Basic, the Vista Home Premium version does offer the Aero Glass interface as well as enhanced entertainment and multimedia features. Keep in mind though that just because a system is sold with Vista Home Premium loaded it doesn't mean the processor, installed memory and graphics processor will be up to the task of running the operating system in a manner you'll find acceptable. Truthfully, I expect to see a lot of substandard machines loaded with Vista Home Premium to try and lure the less savvy and first time buyers.

Vista Home Premium has a retail of USD 239 / EUR 329 (wikipedia). Why on earth do europeans have to pay 1,5 more?

Melifluous · 30-01-2007, 13:10

Oh oh oh Can I join in with the senseless mindless Microsoft bashing please?

Matrix · 30-01-2007, 15:46

Meli, you don't need to ask permission for that...

For the Dutchies here: NRC Next's main item is about Vista. A nice article.

Melifluous · 30-01-2007, 17:24

I wasn't asking for permission, was just being sarcastic.

Why is it generally considered 'cool' and 'trendy' to call Microsoft a load of names and bemoan someone selling a product just cos they are successful at it?

I honestly believe that without Microsoft in this world we wouldn't have his forum to post on at all.

Shabbaman · 30-01-2007, 17:48

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

I honestly believe that without Microsoft in this world we wouldn't have his forum to post on at all.

Meh. It'd be IBM OS whatever otherwise. I have nothing against microsoft; if you don't like their stuff, use something else.

If you think Vista is too expensive, use XP or 2k instead. Vista adds nothing: my computer is working now anyway, and Vista won't make it run any better. Oh, I have to buy a new computer first? Sure, that'll run better. But it'd run better with XP as well. Or, god forbid, Linux. Vista'll only get popular if it can be pirated. Or, if you buy a new system and get a OEM version...

So in fact the poll question is: do you plan on getting a new computer?

Shabbaman · 30-01-2007, 17:49

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

I honestly believe that without Microsoft in this world we wouldn't have his forum to post on at all.

Does Bill Gates pay for our servers? So basically you're saying that Bill Gates deserves a fist in his arse?

Beam · 30-01-2007, 18:00

View Poll Results: Will you buy Vista ?
Yes	3	13.64%
No	19	86.36%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

30-01-2007, 11:05	#21
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	This from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista : * Windows Aero: a new hardware-based graphical user interface, named Windows Aero – an acronym (possibly a backronym) for Authentic, Energetic, Reflective, and Open. The new interface is intended to be cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing than those of previous Windows, including new transparencies, animations and eye candy. Not included in the cheaper Vista versions and memory recommendations are +2GB. Maybe the raison d'etre for DX10 and unless you've been waiting for it hardly a reason to buy. * Windows Shell: The new Windows shell is significantly different from Windows XP, offering a new range of organization, navigation, and search capabilities. Windows Explorer's task pane has been removed, integrating the relevant task options into the toolbar. A "Favorite links" pane has been added, enabling one-click access to common directories. The address bar has been replaced with a breadcrumb navigation system. The Start menu has changed as well; it no longer uses ever-expanding boxes when navigating through Programs. Even the word "Start" itself has been removed in favor of a blue Windows Orb (also called "Pearl"). It is clear what has been removed and pretty vague what comes back in return. Might be a solution for ppl who have trouble finding their way in XP but I'm thinking about the AOL level there. * Windows Search (also known as Instant Search or search as you type): significantly faster and more thorough search capabilities. Search boxes have been added to the Start menu, Windows Explorer, and several of the applications included with Vista. By default, Instant Search indexes only a small number of folders such as the start menu, the names of files opened, the Documents folder, and the user's e-mail. Advanced options allow to choose for a specific file type how it should be indexed, the properties only or the properties and the file contents or exclude it. Progs like Copernicus already do a pretty good job there so nothing really new. * Windows Sidebar: A transparent panel anchored to the side of the screen where a user can place Desktop Gadgets, which are small applets designed for a specialized purpose (such as displaying the weather or sports scores). Gadgets can also be placed on other parts of the Desktop, if desired. Stuff like this already avail in Mozilla Firefox, RSS feeds etc. * Windows Internet Explorer 7: new user interface, tabbed browsing, RSS, a search box, improved printing, Page Zoom, Quick Tabs (thumbnails of all open tabs), a number of new security protection features, and improved web standards support. IE7 in Windows Vista runs in isolation from other applications in the operating system (protected mode); exploits and malicious software are restricted from writing to any location beyond Temporary Internet Files without explicit user consent. Two words: Mozilla Firefox. * Windows Media Player 11, a major revamp of Microsoft's program for playing and organizing music and video. New features in this version include word wheeling (or "search as you type"), a completely new and highly graphical interface for the media library, photo display and organization, and the ability to share music libraries over a network with other Vista machines, Xbox 360 integration, and support for other Media Center Extenders. And of course DRM which makes Vista the worldwide implementation of US law on copyright. In terms of functionality I would have to see it if there is anything it that can't be done now. * Backup and Restore Center: Includes a backup and restore application that gives users the ability to schedule periodic backups of files on their computer, as well as recovery from previous backups. Backups are incremental, storing only the changes each time, minimizing the disk usage. It also features CompletePC Backup (available only to Ultimate, Business, and Enterprise versions) which backs up an entire computer as an image onto a hard disk or DVD. CompletePC Backup can automatically recreate a machine setup onto new hardware or hard disk in case of any hardware failures. Not new for Windoze and only available in versions most people won't buy imo. Seems intended for corporate users but most companies already use staged installations and have a backup process in place. * Windows Mail: A replacement for Outlook Express that includes a completely replaced mail store that improves stability, and enables real-time search. It has the Phishing Filter like IE7 and a Junk mail filtering which is enhanced through regular updates via Windows Update.[10] So MS introduces another mail format again. Most if not all Security suites today already have functionality for phishing and junk mail and Vista won't obsolete Security suites for the simple reason it lacks anti-virus. * Windows Calendar is a new calendar and task application. Again another one. * Windows Photo Gallery, a photo and movie library management application. WPG can import from digital cameras, tag and rate individual items, adjust colors and exposure, create and display slideshows (with pan and fade effects), and burn slideshows to DVD. Should this be used or Windows Media Player 11???? * Windows DVD Maker, a companion program to Windows Movie Maker, which provides the ability to create video DVDs based on a user's content. Another DVD maker. * Windows Meeting Space is the replacement for NetMeeting. Users can share applications (or their entire Desktop) with other users on the local network, or over the Internet using peer-to-peer technology (higher versions than Starter and Home Basic can take advantage of hosting capabilities, limiting previous to "join" mode only) Might be nice if you need it (does this mean install Civ once and play it on all PCs on the LAN????) * Windows Media Center, which was previously exclusively bundled as a separate version of Windows XP, known as Windows XP Media Center Edition, will be incorporated into the Home Premium and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista. Looks like same stuff in new licensing policy. * Games: Every game included with Windows has been rewritten to take advantage of Vista's new graphics capabilities. New games include Chess Titans, Mahjong Titans and Purble Place. The Games section will also hold links and information to all games on the user's computer. One piece of information that will be shown is the game's ESRB rating. For non-gamers games hardly can be a reason to make the investment but hey, I'm saying this in a gamers heaven and a future game might be the reason why ppl make the investment. * Previous Versions automatically creates backup copies of files and folders, with daily frequency. Users can also create "shadow copies" by setting a System Protection Point using the System Protection tab in the System control panel. The user can be presented multiple versions of a file throughout a limited history and be allowed to restore, delete, or copy those versions. This feature is available only in the Business, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista and is inherited from Windows Server 2003.[11] Corporate focussed, diskspace eater. * Windows Mobility Center is a new control panel that centralizes the most relevant information related to mobile computing (e.g. brightness, sound, battery level / power scheme selection, wireless network, screen orientation, presentation settings, etc.). Existing functionality under a new roof. * Windows Update: Software and security updates have been simplified, now operating solely via a control panel instead of as a web application. Mail's spam filter and Defender's definitions will also be automatically updated via Windows Update. yeah * Parental controls: Allows administrators to control which websites, programs, and games each standard user can use and install. yeah * Windows SideShow: Enables the auxiliary displays on newer laptops or on supported Windows Mobile devices. It is meant to be used to display Device gadgets while the computer is on or off. ??????????????????? * Speech recognition is fully integrated into Vista. It is an improved version of Microsoft Speech Recognition currently working under Office 2003, with a better interface, a rich and flexible set of commands, and an extensive command-and-control capability to activate the computer by voice. Unlike the Office 2003 version, which works only in Office and WordPad, it works for dictation system-wide. In addition, it currently supports several languages: English US and UK, Spanish, French, German, Chinese (Traditional and Simplified), and Japanese. For twenty years speech recognition has been in existence. Who uses it? * New fonts, including several designed especially for screen reading, and new high-quality Chinese (Yahei, JhengHei), Japanese (Meiryo) and Korean (Malgun) fonts. See Windows Vista typefaces. ClearType has also been enhanced and enabled by default. yeah, my Korean is a bit rusty though. * Problem Reports and Solutions, a new control panel which allows users to see previously sent problems and any solutions or additional information that is available. If any. * Improved audio controls allow the system-wide volume or volume of individual audio devices and even individual applications to be controlled separately. Introduced new audio functionalities such as Room Correction, Bass Management and Speaker Fill. OMG, I've been waiting for this. * System Performance Assessment is a benchmark used by Windows Vista to regulate the system for optimum performance. Games can take advantage of this feature, reading the data produced by this benchmark in order to fine-tune the game details. The benchmark tests CPU, RAM, Graphics acceleration (2D and 3D) and disk access.[12] Currently supported games are: * Windows Ultimate Extras: The Ultimate Edition of Windows Vista provides access to extra games and tools, available through Windows Update. This replaces the Microsoft Plus! software bundle that was sold alongside prior versions of Windows. Please reply if you can't live without this. Imo the only two reasons to go Vista is if you HAVE to buy a new PC and CAN'T get XP on it OR if there is a future killer app which does not run on XP. Vista with Aero is confirmed to be power hungry and no doubt Vista without Aero also outperforms XP in this area given the system requirements. So a lot of investment in new HW is just required to run Vista and therefore wasted. __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

30-01-2007, 11:31	#22
Pastorius Custard used tile Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Opening a can Posts: 3,158	How long till they stop support on XP I wonder ... __________________

30-01-2007, 13:10	#25
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	Oh oh oh Can I join in with the senseless mindless Microsoft bashing please? __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

30-01-2007, 15:46	#26
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Meli, you don't need to ask permission for that... For the Dutchies here: NRC Next's main item is about Vista. A nice article. __________________

30-01-2007, 17:24	#27
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	I wasn't asking for permission, was just being sarcastic. Why is it generally considered 'cool' and 'trendy' to call Microsoft a load of names and bemoan someone selling a product just cos they are successful at it? I honestly believe that without Microsoft in this world we wouldn't have his forum to post on at all. __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

30-01-2007, 18:00	#30
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	__________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!