2v2 rules discussion thread

ProPain · 02-10-2003, 10:01

placeholder for agreed rules

ProPain · 02-10-2003, 10:03

2v2 needs some rules, I took Sky's post as a start

1: Are team members allowed to play each other's turns ?
Sky: I wouldn't agree to that personally as that would level up the team, its better to focus on good communication (part of the challenge) and will not give the "european team" a slight advantage...
PP: I would agree to this for a practical reason, we can keep a game moving faster. IMO this doesnt matter anyway, teammates will be swapping info on builds anyway, so no new info to get from playing each other's turn once in a while.

2: Should the map be made by the Map Makers ensuring team mates are close to each other?
Sky: Yes.
PP: Totally Agree

Will only "team results" be valid ?(i.e preventing possibility of nasty internal backstabbing)
Sky:Yes
PP: Yes

Should there be any AIs ?
PP: interesting question.I would say that's up to the players but bear in mind that tech & development pace will be much higher anyway because of player coop so AI's will not have a fair fighting chance by far. For now I'm inclined to say no AI would be better.

Agreement needs to be reached over Civs...
PP: just like any ordinary game

What's the play order?
PP:I'd prefer A-B-A-B instead of A-A-B-B. If he same team plays consecutive turns the first strike advantage will be devestating

Will contact be allowed before teammates meet?
PP: I'd say yes. Same for swapping of maps before MM.

Shabbaman · 02-10-2003, 10:26

Are you planning to add this to the ladder?

ProPain · 02-10-2003, 10:31

Maybe, when 2v2 works out we could start a 2v2 ladder. Have to talk to digger though to get a feel for implications.

Skyfish · 02-10-2003, 10:51

I'd rather the results are NOT included in the official 1v1 Ladder.

On Point 1 : I also agree teammates can play each other's turns however I would rather see team mates in the same time zone because if one the team mates is far away playing times will almost never coincide and one the team mates will end up playing msot of the turns for the team.

On play order, it should of course be A-B-A-B.

ProPain · 02-10-2003, 10:54

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

Maybe, when 2v2 works out we could start a 2v2 ladder. Have to talk to digger though to get a feel for implications.

Please read carefully Sky. NOt in any way am I gonna incorporate this in 1v1 ladder

Skyfish · 02-10-2003, 11:47

Please read carefully PP I was NOT in any way saying you were gonna incorporate this in 1v1 ladder

I was just giving my opinion on Shabba's question and supporting you in your decision

digger760 · 02-10-2003, 12:05

For some reason i can't log into MSN on my own PC, so if your looking for me you'll have to email me or rely on me to check the forum.

Team Members to play other members turn: prerably not, but if a team member has'nt played by a certain length of time, then by approval of the oppostion we can play out partners turn.

MapMaking: Hmm not sure about this, maybe we should be better off close to our partner, but i hav'nt had time to think about it.

Backstabbing our Partner: Absolutley not on!!

AI's: no.

Civ selection: as per PP suggestions

Player order: A-B-A-B

Contact: do you mean you can read spoilers, send emails of our maps ect..??

If you wanted a 2 vs 2 ladder i would have to make a new DB for it, its no biggie. I doubt that it is practical from a perspective of getting many games finished...we are only getting results from 1 on 1's cos of the ease in playing 1+ turns a day. For a 2 vs 2 what is the chance of getting many finished games, my attempts to get 4 player games at more than 1+ turns a day as been very limited. In my opinion a 2vs 2 ladder is not worth the effort.

anarres · 02-10-2003, 13:24

I think we should have 1 spoiler per team.

stagnate · 02-10-2003, 17:24

I don't think players should _routinely_ play for partners. One of the biggest differences in skill level is the little things, imo, and so it's important to allow each player to make their own little mistakes. It also makes it ok to have different time zones for partners (don't want to get shut out :-P).

I don't have too much of a problem with a partner playing turns while someone is unavailable for a longer period of time (vacation/work travel), but other than that I think each turn should be played by the correct person, even if it's a bit slower.

I don't care about ladders.

You can't exchange maps before map making in-game, but could be provided offline if approved. I would rather try to stick mostly to the game mechanics, and leave the team communication for general strategy considerations.

Definately ABAB otherwise as indicated there would be some problems with simult attack.

Team results makes sense. I would consider internal backstabbing to be a meta-game betrayal and not something that I would condone or accept (probably wouldn't play games w/ that person any more).

Didn't know about map makers, but that sounds like a good way to handle things.

P.S. The comments about speed of play make it sound like you guys are used to a ton of turns each day, so that 2/day is quite slow, but in my (limited) experience I haven't seen much more speed than that with 4 players. 1v1 is a different story.

02-10-2003, 10:01	#1
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	2v2 rules discussion thread placeholder for agreed rules __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

02-10-2003, 10:03	#2
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	2v2 needs some rules, I took Sky's post as a start 1: Are team members allowed to play each other's turns ? Sky: I wouldn't agree to that personally as that would level up the team, its better to focus on good communication (part of the challenge) and will not give the "european team" a slight advantage... PP: I would agree to this for a practical reason, we can keep a game moving faster. IMO this doesnt matter anyway, teammates will be swapping info on builds anyway, so no new info to get from playing each other's turn once in a while. 2: Should the map be made by the Map Makers ensuring team mates are close to each other? Sky: Yes. PP: Totally Agree Will only "team results" be valid ?(i.e preventing possibility of nasty internal backstabbing) Sky:Yes PP: Yes Should there be any AIs ? PP: interesting question.I would say that's up to the players but bear in mind that tech & development pace will be much higher anyway because of player coop so AI's will not have a fair fighting chance by far. For now I'm inclined to say no AI would be better. Agreement needs to be reached over Civs... PP: just like any ordinary game What's the play order? PP:I'd prefer A-B-A-B instead of A-A-B-B. If he same team plays consecutive turns the first strike advantage will be devestating Will contact be allowed before teammates meet? PP: I'd say yes. Same for swapping of maps before MM. __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

02-10-2003, 10:26	#3
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	Are you planning to add this to the ladder? __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

02-10-2003, 10:31	#4
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	Maybe, when 2v2 works out we could start a 2v2 ladder. Have to talk to digger though to get a feel for implications. __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

02-10-2003, 10:51	#5
Skyfish Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: dead. Posts: 2,349	I'd rather the results are NOT included in the official 1v1 Ladder. On Point 1 : I also agree teammates can play each other's turns however I would rather see team mates in the same time zone because if one the team mates is far away playing times will almost never coincide and one the team mates will end up playing msot of the turns for the team. On play order, it should of course be A-B-A-B. __________________ <font color=\"brown\"> <b><i>\"NOT back from the dead\"</b></i> </font id=\"brown\">

02-10-2003, 11:47	#7
Skyfish Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: dead. Posts: 2,349	Please read carefully PP I was NOT in any way saying you were gonna incorporate this in 1v1 ladder I was just giving my opinion on Shabba's question and supporting you in your decision __________________ <font color=\"brown\"> <b><i>\"NOT back from the dead\"</b></i> </font id=\"brown\">

02-10-2003, 12:05	#8
digger760 King Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Fake Dog Poo Factory. Posts: 1,887	For some reason i can't log into MSN on my own PC, so if your looking for me you'll have to email me or rely on me to check the forum. Team Members to play other members turn: prerably not, but if a team member has'nt played by a certain length of time, then by approval of the oppostion we can play out partners turn. MapMaking: Hmm not sure about this, maybe we should be better off close to our partner, but i hav'nt had time to think about it. Backstabbing our Partner: Absolutley not on!! AI's: no. Civ selection: as per PP suggestions Player order: A-B-A-B Contact: do you mean you can read spoilers, send emails of our maps ect..?? If you wanted a 2 vs 2 ladder i would have to make a new DB for it, its no biggie. I doubt that it is practical from a perspective of getting many games finished...we are only getting results from 1 on 1's cos of the ease in playing 1+ turns a day. For a 2 vs 2 what is the chance of getting many finished games, my attempts to get 4 player games at more than 1+ turns a day as been very limited. In my opinion a 2vs 2 ladder is not worth the effort.

02-10-2003, 13:24	#9
anarres anarchist butcher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States of Whatever. Posts: 4,677	I think we should have 1 spoiler per team. __________________ <b>Calculate the probability of culture flips: Flip Calc</b>

02-10-2003, 17:24	#10
stagnate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: . Posts: 13	I don't think players should _routinely_ play for partners. One of the biggest differences in skill level is the little things, imo, and so it's important to allow each player to make their own little mistakes. It also makes it ok to have different time zones for partners (don't want to get shut out :-P). I don't have too much of a problem with a partner playing turns while someone is unavailable for a longer period of time (vacation/work travel), but other than that I think each turn should be played by the correct person, even if it's a bit slower. I don't care about ladders. You can't exchange maps before map making in-game, but could be provided offline if approved. I would rather try to stick mostly to the game mechanics, and leave the team communication for general strategy considerations. Definately ABAB otherwise as indicated there would be some problems with simult attack. Team results makes sense. I would consider internal backstabbing to be a meta-game betrayal and not something that I would condone or accept (probably wouldn't play games w/ that person any more). Didn't know about map makers, but that sounds like a good way to handle things. P.S. The comments about speed of play make it sound like you guys are used to a ton of turns each day, so that 2/day is quite slow, but in my (limited) experience I haven't seen much more speed than that with 4 players. 1v1 is a different story.