I hate rules but a clear bottom line is needed - Page 5

Stapel · 09-01-2004, 14:02

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Aggie

On a side note: I did a research back in the old PTW days regaring tech stealing. It turned out that a careful steal did have as much chance of success (roughly) as a safe steal (in my test). Only drawback of careful steal: the chance of being noticed when it fails is far higher. By not telling your human opponent of a failed tech steal, you would be foolish to waste money; you would always try a careful steal...

Unless you don't care shit about your opponent to know it failed / you tried.

I still think I wouldn't really dramatically change my plans if I knew my opponent was trying to steal stuff. He is the enemy anyway!

DrAlimentado · 09-01-2004, 15:58

But maybe you have a complex treaty that forbids spying? Or maybe you just use the info to extrapolate exactly what tech level your opponent has? I myself would at the very minimum use the info to make some pompous rhetoric about how the backstabbing duplicitous playernation had been caught attempting to steal our glorious tech - and use it as levarage in any subsequent negotiations

The point is that the information can only be useful, if we got popups in pbem like you do in solo we wouldn't complain about getting the information would we? And Aggie is right - spying without having to report a failed mission is risk-free, and obviously dosen't work as intended from a design point of view... I like the spying part of the game a lot (mwuhahaha) but it only really works from a game mechanics aspect if you can get caught spying, which means reporting the stuff firaxis failed to implement in multiplayer.

ERIKK · 11-01-2004, 11:31

Recent discussions convinced me set up a sort of game type rules.

- no rules, free fight
- medium rules, to be filtered out of this thread
- tight rules, almost nothing is allowed, also to be filtered out of this discussion

lets get rid of these annoying discussions!

Beam · 11-01-2004, 11:37

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ERIKK

Recent discussions convinced me set up a sort of game type rules.

- no rules, free fight
- medium rules, to be filtered out of this thread
- tight rules, almost nothing is allowed, also to be filtered out of this discussion

lets get rid of these annoying discussions!

Roger that Erik, I will try to make summary and copy that in the opening post. I recall that in that recent discussion exploits also are a big part.

ERIKK · 11-01-2004, 12:54

From page 1:
Summary of basic rules

Just to have a basic set, everyone is free of course to agree otherwise.

Battle reports:

In human vs. human battles players report to each other on the battle, including type and number of units used and wins / losses / withdrawals. Typicially the things visible in Single Player.

2nd player reports AI vs. 1st player???

Spy missions

Failed spy missions vs. human players where the spy is caught are reported to that player. If the spy is successful or gets away with it no report is needed.

Recommended to agree before the game starts

- Reporting of typical End-of-turn messages by the last human player in the Q. Wonder, diplo messages etc. Most if not all that info can be gained from the advisors.

- MPP and / or MA vs. human players.

Exploits

NOTE: this is not defining what an exploit is, it as an overview of what a lot of people consider exploitive. Feel free to agree differently in your game.

- Using the advisor screens while in build part of the turn for things like revolt gambling, tile-sharing, tax/lux/sci adjustments.

- Resource disconnection.

- Changing preferences during the game without agreement with the other players.

- And more, Sky promised to compile a list.

Beam · 12-01-2004, 22:28

Just wondering why, after 1,5 days, there is so little response.

Please keep in mind that this is not an attempt to create a rulebook for pbem's, but more an effort to come to a base set describing the assumed and undescribed. And where players among themselves add or remove rules pre-game or in-game.

Feedback and Skies overview of exploits very much appreciated!

09-01-2004, 15:58	#42
DrAlimentado Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the cookie jar. Posts: 1,568	But maybe you have a complex treaty that forbids spying? Or maybe you just use the info to extrapolate exactly what tech level your opponent has? I myself would at the very minimum use the info to make some pompous rhetoric about how the backstabbing duplicitous playernation had been caught attempting to steal our glorious tech - and use it as levarage in any subsequent negotiations The point is that the information can only be useful, if we got popups in pbem like you do in solo we wouldn't complain about getting the information would we? And Aggie is right - spying without having to report a failed mission is risk-free, and obviously dosen't work as intended from a design point of view... I like the spying part of the game a lot (mwuhahaha) but it only really works from a game mechanics aspect if you can get caught spying, which means reporting the stuff firaxis failed to implement in multiplayer. __________________ <font color=\"red\">sign up for the best game on the forum</font id=\"red\"> <font color=\"green\">My Army</font id=\"green\"> <font color=\"green\">Help my orcs to prosper</font id=\"green\"> MapTweaker Utility beta (copy/paste/resize biq files)

12-01-2004, 22:28	#46
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Just wondering why, after 1,5 days, there is so little response. Please keep in mind that this is not an attempt to create a rulebook for pbem's, but more an effort to come to a base set describing the assumed and undescribed. And where players among themselves add or remove rules pre-game or in-game. Feedback and Skies overview of exploits very much appreciated! __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

11-01-2004, 11:31	#43
ERIKK Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands!. Posts: 2,636	Recent discussions convinced me set up a sort of game type rules. - no rules, free fight - medium rules, to be filtered out of this thread - tight rules, almost nothing is allowed, also to be filtered out of this discussion lets get rid of these annoying discussions!

11-01-2004, 12:54	#45
ERIKK Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands!. Posts: 2,636	From page 1: Summary of basic rules Just to have a basic set, everyone is free of course to agree otherwise. Battle reports: In human vs. human battles players report to each other on the battle, including type and number of units used and wins / losses / withdrawals. Typicially the things visible in Single Player. 2nd player reports AI vs. 1st player??? Spy missions Failed spy missions vs. human players where the spy is caught are reported to that player. If the spy is successful or gets away with it no report is needed. Recommended to agree before the game starts - Reporting of typical End-of-turn messages by the last human player in the Q. Wonder, diplo messages etc. Most if not all that info can be gained from the advisors. - MPP and / or MA vs. human players. Exploits NOTE: this is not defining what an exploit is, it as an overview of what a lot of people consider exploitive. Feel free to agree differently in your game. - Using the advisor screens while in build part of the turn for things like revolt gambling, tile-sharing, tax/lux/sci adjustments. - Resource disconnection. - Changing preferences during the game without agreement with the other players. - And more, Sky promised to compile a list.