Cut the Crap - Pitboss

[Beam]

First of all:

akots AND Beam win this game and that's because we made a deal on that well over 100 turns ago in the context of the war with BCLG and barbu. And so it will be recorded on Civstats.

Second:

I kindly asked ynnek to vote for me when the elections were about and I thank him a lot he did. We also have greatly cooperated in the war with BCLG and barbu and we also have handled other potential issues in a very positive and constructive manner. Ynnek explains very well why he choose to vote and there is nothing more to add.

So I hope Stapel understands now this victory is not gifted at all and I'm actually very proud to have unravveled the Black box that an AP victory was when akots and me started to explore the feasibility of it. And we were not even sure it could be done until yesterday when the call came. So we were also fully preparing for a space race.

More about this tomorrow cause I just came home from Groningen and I definitely need some sleep.

[Matrix]

Originally Posted by Beam

akots AND Beam win this game and that's because we made a deal on that well over 100 turns ago in the context of the war with BCLG and barbu. And so it will be recorded on Civstats.

That is simply not true. You weren't playing with teams, so there can be only one winner, which is you in this case.

There can only be one reason for someone to vote: when he thinks he has no chance of winning and would rather see player X win than player Y. Was that also the case for akots? If not, then he made a very stupid decision, cos now he lost.

But Beam won, legitimately, and that's that. Congratulations, Beam!!
Stapel, I'd say take a firm glass of water after you've swallowed the bitter pill.

[barbu1977]

Originally Posted by Matrix

That is simply not true. You weren't playing with teams, so there can be only one winner, which is you in this case.

+1

[akots]

Indeed, we (me and Beam) made a full alliance for this game at around turn 130 or so.

The Apostolic Palace victory had been planned since this time and even though Space Race was planned as well, Diplomatic victory was the first option to pursue.

IMO, neither me nor ynnek had any real chance at winning the game for ourselves. So it was a clear choice between Beam and Stapel. Another IMO, Beam had a better chance at either military win or Space, both provided there were some help.

There had been a lot going on in this game which is not shown in the spoilers and I don't have a spoiler essentially. There were a number of hard choices to be made and Korea had been not the best candidate for a win due to carrying singificant part of the burden in the war with Mongolia and America. This was specifically done to ensure full cooperation of ynnek who was in alliance with Korea. And this also enabled Beam to greatly increase his Empire and to get ahead in techs.

Ragarding who is the winner here, I'd say that it is Beam. I also contributed in terms of the whole plan for the Diplomatic victory, development and fail safes, and ynnek contributed his vote. Cat Behemoth waged a very hard but eventually victorious war against barbu and BCLG in close coordination with ynnek (Shabba was subbing then), and Beam. The outcome of this war was not clear up until the capture of all American cities and even after that it was really devastating campaign with crazy logistics and huge number of troops involved. By the time the other continent was still building axemen and war elephants, this war involved rather large number of cannons (up to 60 at peak of power), grenadiers, frigates and galleons. So, IMO, the victory should have stayed on our continent.

[socralynnek]

Stapel, if that is what you think, then you shouldn't play MP games where Diplo win is turned on.(BTW, I'd be fine if diplo win would be turned off for next game, especially that religious one is kind of strange; or if we just agree on not using a religious diplo win)

My decision was made only after the leader vote a few turns ago, when akots and beam approached me whether I'd vote for them.

[ProPain]

Originally Posted by Stapel

So, Ynnek and Akots declared that Beam is the winner.

What a crap that is! You could have told me so two months ago.......


What a bunch of shitheads the two of you are!

When diplo vics are on, they're just as good as any other vic imo and the diplo side of MP is just as important as the actual 'technical' civ site of the game. Beam managed to get other people to vote for his victory where they felt they couldn't win themselves. Not different than when he had forged an alliance to invade your continent I think. That doesn't mitigate the great play you showed in your part of the world imo, it's just another aspect of the game.

[Beam]

Stapel,

What puzzles me is that while you voice some very strong opinions here about victory types and what some people decided you yourself in your spoiler (a good read btw) seem(ed) to be completely clueless how to proceed with the game not only at about the point where the AP vote came up but also earlier in the game.

The most hilarious was your nervous PM after I build 2 Infs and upgraded 2 Grens to see if you would notice. You did but only 2 turns or so later. But I certainly did not expect this to be interpreted as "something must be on".

What I really do not like are the words you use for two fellow CDZ members, CtC players and ppl I've had a very good an exciting time playing this Pitboss with. I'd appreciate if you can review your opinion now you got more information about how all of this went.



Having said that let's bring this to a good end and prepare to Cut more Crap and I'm ready to host it.

[mauer]

Congrats Beam! In my Texas sized opinion, it was a fair win. No different than someone promising protection until a spaceship is built, or providing a their land as a buffer zone from invaders, or something else of the sort. Maybe gifting large amounts of units or what not.

It may not be a win that will be told down to the fourth generation, but it is a win none the less. It took some kind of planning, and follow through.

Anyways, how'd the map work out for you guys? Did you think it was all balanced enough?

[akots]

Map was great, plenty of everything and all nice. It made for a very gory game.

Also, in this game, I really got a feeling of accomplishing something according to a plan. Especially brilliant was Beam's spreading of Confu in Baghdad during last turns of Arabian civlization. Otherwise, it might have never happened.

[ProPain]

Originally Posted by mauer

It may not be a win that will be told down to the fourth generation, but it is a win none the less.

Not quite sure about that. I'm pretty sure it's the first diplo vic we've ever seen on CDZ multiplayer. I think it's quite out of the ordinary, I'd never expected to see one.

I was just thinking, could Stapel have prevented this by liberating his cities with confu? In that case not all civs would have had the religion. Dunno if doing this after the vote will work or just send the voting count into a fit