Spoiler for Wheel Game, or Revenge Served Cold

romeothemonk · 04-01-2006, 22:35

Spoiler*************
If GRS, Darkness or Matrix wander in here, they are

with a nice helping of

I am Montezuma.

romeothemonk · 04-01-2006, 22:46

A Caveat: This is my very first c4 game. I am playing based on the stuff I have read and my natural inclinations in games.

1) My first inclination. Although I am spiritual, religion is for the weak. (in this game anyway)

2) I am going to try and use a combo of axe's/jags to bum rush some poor fool

3) I will attempt to use overwhelming local military superiority to be an asshole to my neighbors.

4) I will attempt to build/steal the pyramids as about my only wonder. I would love to switch to the civic that causes unhappies, then attack someone to really hose them up.

5) My spiritual trait will allow for much swapping between civics, and I will do that quite a bit. Probably between unit builds and infra builds.

Kemal · 04-01-2006, 23:11

I hope you don't mind me sneaking some comments in on some of your points in the gameplan (sounds solid enough), but since you said this is your first c4 game, it might be you'd want to be aware of certain aspects of the game that can have a big impact if left unchecked.

On point 1, while it is perfectly possible to play without religion, if you can grab one easily early on it can be a great help especially if you're hosed regarding luxes, or plan to create lots of buildings in your cities. The organized religion civic provides a 25% production bonus to all cities that have your religion present in them when constructing buildings there, and a religion also increases happiness and culture in your cities.

On point 2 and 3, be *very* wary of civ4's increased upkeep costs. Taking a far away city from an opponent is usually devastating for your economy due to the upkeep costs in gold per turn cities get when far away from the capital, and early on this could easily bankrupt you. An aggressive strategy can be very worthwhile, but actually capturing the cities you take over could be a burden for a long period in the game. Same goes for overexpansion, building too many cities too fast cripples your economy to a point of no return. Don't want to sound too scary here, regular expansion is very much possible and keeping a close eye on the costs per city should keep things in check.

On the pyramids, the wonder itself is indeed great, but unfortunately, it only gives you access to the government civics, of which emancipation is not one (emancipation being the civic that creates unhappiness for others). Then again, the government civics allow for some really good choices and spiritual civs can, as you already justly pointed out, shift civics a lot per game.

That said, your game plan sounds excellent, just wanted to point out a few things that you might want to consider when executing the plan.

romeothemonk · 05-01-2006, 15:15

All very good points Kemal.

Due to my inexperience I appreciate and actually encourage kibitzing.

77.43KB

My start. I actually started 1 southeast, but I didn't want to settle on the forest. I moved so I could have some oinkies!

The 1 tile from the sea isn't ideal, but it will work for now. With the sea borne bonusi, I will place my second city on the sea, and spam a work boat or 2.

My current plan that I am researching agriculture (farmer boy here), and then move on to animal husbandry for my oinkers.

My prospective build order is as follows. Warrior, scout, rax, worker.

Tubby Rower · 05-01-2006, 19:16

Romeo, I've had good luck with switching to a worker immediately upon growing to 2. That way the Ani. Hus. won't be wasted by reseraching too early. Also if you using the above tactic or not, have the tech required to perform a worker action before the worker is about to need it. IE, you'll have to research the Wheel before roading the piggies. You'll have to research Pots before cottages are built. BW before forests can be chopped and mining before well... you know.

I don't see the need for a rax before the worker. any explanation of that? You know what the wheel map looks like right? if not I can post a screenie of the basic outline. or you could look at my "beating down whomp" thread

Good Luck.

Socrates · 05-01-2006, 19:36

Romeo, I think I would have settled by the coast, probably just 1 tile north of where you settled. This would have gained you coastal access, which I find very important in Civ4, and wouldn't have wasted some sea tiles, as you said yourself. Also, I have a hard time spotting resources without... the resource feature of course. But it seems this move would have claimed some fish/crab/clam in your capital city's vicinity (but you wouldn't have known). But then again, city placement is a bit more complicated (at least for now), so I could be wrong. I myself settled that way in my latest game, so...

Anyway, good luck to you !

romeothemonk · 06-01-2006, 22:47

Some updates!!
I have now played my thid turn. I popped a hut and got 27 gold. I was hoping for a tech, but hey, take what you can get. My thoughts now involve changing my tech path after agriculture. To utilize my lake, I need to go fishing. So agri_>fishing_> Animal Husbandry.

romeothemonk · 12-01-2006, 16:02

More updates!!
I have trained my first warrior!! I have found a near perfect 2nd city site, I have also found Ivory and GRS. Now as much as I am tempted to bums rush GRS, I will likely hold off for now. He is quite far away, as in my scout found his warrior 10 spaces past the ivory, which is as far as I want to go in that one direction.
I also found out the benefit of using the resource locater as I would have had corn right next to me. Oh well. I grow to size 2 in 2 turns, and I am putting some shields into a scout for now. I think I will hold off on the worker until the scout is fininshed, as early exploration trumps 2 turns of using a farmed corn.
I also popped another hut, and have a total of 57 gold. WEE!!

romeothemonk · 08-02-2006, 15:13

Alrighty then.

The update no one requested.

I have made some semi-terrible mistakes this game already, but I am rapidly fixing them. I just built my second scout, and after AH is done, I am going for BW to chop another worker, then a settler.

The settler is going for the hill across the way in this picture.

71.65KB

grahamiam · 08-02-2006, 15:27

Good thing that's an AI warrior next to your worker

chopping gives you a lot of shields. You may want to consider saving the chops for settlers/buildings rather than a cheap scout. Contact with the AI is pretty useless until you have Alphabet (tech trading) and Currency (gold trading). It can be argued that meeting them after writing to sign open borders and start getting good relations with some is ok, but it won't make or break the game and the Lib's from Writing are more important.

looking at the map, I see a plains hill to the west that has access to a river, cows, and silk. If you settle on a plains hill, you will get 2 hammers from the city center.

Another comment on the map (and I apologize for the Monday-Morning QB'ing

): It is really too bad that you didn't settle 1T NE. You would have had access to the coast, fish, pigs, and corn. Also, with a lighthouse, you would have gotten 3fpt from the lake.

04-01-2006, 22:35	#1
romeothemonk King Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yankton, SD. Posts: 1,310	Spoiler for Wheel Game, or Revenge Served Cold Spoiler************* If GRS, Darkness or Matrix wander in here, they are with a nice helping of I am Montezuma. __________________ I am not crazy cause I take the right pills..................................... Everyday

04-01-2006, 22:46	#2
romeothemonk King Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yankton, SD. Posts: 1,310	A Caveat: This is my very first c4 game. I am playing based on the stuff I have read and my natural inclinations in games. 1) My first inclination. Although I am spiritual, religion is for the weak. (in this game anyway) 2) I am going to try and use a combo of axe's/jags to bum rush some poor fool 3) I will attempt to use overwhelming local military superiority to be an asshole to my neighbors. 4) I will attempt to build/steal the pyramids as about my only wonder. I would love to switch to the civic that causes unhappies, then attack someone to really hose them up. 5) My spiritual trait will allow for much swapping between civics, and I will do that quite a bit. Probably between unit builds and infra builds. __________________ I am not crazy cause I take the right pills..................................... Everyday

04-01-2006, 23:11	#3
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	I hope you don't mind me sneaking some comments in on some of your points in the gameplan (sounds solid enough), but since you said this is your first c4 game, it might be you'd want to be aware of certain aspects of the game that can have a big impact if left unchecked. On point 1, while it is perfectly possible to play without religion, if you can grab one easily early on it can be a great help especially if you're hosed regarding luxes, or plan to create lots of buildings in your cities. The organized religion civic provides a 25% production bonus to all cities that have your religion present in them when constructing buildings there, and a religion also increases happiness and culture in your cities. On point 2 and 3, be very wary of civ4's increased upkeep costs. Taking a far away city from an opponent is usually devastating for your economy due to the upkeep costs in gold per turn cities get when far away from the capital, and early on this could easily bankrupt you. An aggressive strategy can be very worthwhile, but actually capturing the cities you take over could be a burden for a long period in the game. Same goes for overexpansion, building too many cities too fast cripples your economy to a point of no return. Don't want to sound too scary here, regular expansion is very much possible and keeping a close eye on the costs per city should keep things in check. On the pyramids, the wonder itself is indeed great, but unfortunately, it only gives you access to the government civics, of which emancipation is not one (emancipation being the civic that creates unhappiness for others). Then again, the government civics allow for some really good choices and spiritual civs can, as you already justly pointed out, shift civics a lot per game. That said, your game plan sounds excellent, just wanted to point out a few things that you might want to consider when executing the plan. __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

05-01-2006, 15:15	#4
romeothemonk King Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yankton, SD. Posts: 1,310	All very good points Kemal. Due to my inexperience I appreciate and actually encourage kibitzing. 77.43KB My start. I actually started 1 southeast, but I didn't want to settle on the forest. I moved so I could have some oinkies! The 1 tile from the sea isn't ideal, but it will work for now. With the sea borne bonusi, I will place my second city on the sea, and spam a work boat or 2. My current plan that I am researching agriculture (farmer boy here), and then move on to animal husbandry for my oinkers. My prospective build order is as follows. Warrior, scout, rax, worker. __________________ I am not crazy cause I take the right pills..................................... Everyday

05-01-2006, 19:16	#5
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	Romeo, I've had good luck with switching to a worker immediately upon growing to 2. That way the Ani. Hus. won't be wasted by reseraching too early. Also if you using the above tactic or not, have the tech required to perform a worker action before the worker is about to need it. IE, you'll have to research the Wheel before roading the piggies. You'll have to research Pots before cottages are built. BW before forests can be chopped and mining before well... you know. I don't see the need for a rax before the worker. any explanation of that? You know what the wheel map looks like right? if not I can post a screenie of the basic outline. or you could look at my "beating down whomp" thread Good Luck. __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

05-01-2006, 19:36	#6
Socrates Emperor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,946	Romeo, I think I would have settled by the coast, probably just 1 tile north of where you settled. This would have gained you coastal access, which I find very important in Civ4, and wouldn't have wasted some sea tiles, as you said yourself. Also, I have a hard time spotting resources without... the resource feature of course. But it seems this move would have claimed some fish/crab/clam in your capital city's vicinity (but you wouldn't have known). But then again, city placement is a bit more complicated (at least for now), so I could be wrong. I myself settled that way in my latest game, so... Anyway, good luck to you ! __________________ Sent from my Debian

06-01-2006, 22:47	#7
romeothemonk King Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yankton, SD. Posts: 1,310	Some updates!! I have now played my thid turn. I popped a hut and got 27 gold. I was hoping for a tech, but hey, take what you can get. My thoughts now involve changing my tech path after agriculture. To utilize my lake, I need to go fishing. So agri_>fishing_> Animal Husbandry. __________________ I am not crazy cause I take the right pills..................................... Everyday

12-01-2006, 16:02	#8
romeothemonk King Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yankton, SD. Posts: 1,310	More updates!! I have trained my first warrior!! I have found a near perfect 2nd city site, I have also found Ivory and GRS. Now as much as I am tempted to bums rush GRS, I will likely hold off for now. He is quite far away, as in my scout found his warrior 10 spaces past the ivory, which is as far as I want to go in that one direction. I also found out the benefit of using the resource locater as I would have had corn right next to me. Oh well. I grow to size 2 in 2 turns, and I am putting some shields into a scout for now. I think I will hold off on the worker until the scout is fininshed, as early exploration trumps 2 turns of using a farmed corn. I also popped another hut, and have a total of 57 gold. WEE!! __________________ I am not crazy cause I take the right pills..................................... Everyday

08-02-2006, 15:13	#9
romeothemonk King Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yankton, SD. Posts: 1,310	Alrighty then. The update no one requested. I have made some semi-terrible mistakes this game already, but I am rapidly fixing them. I just built my second scout, and after AH is done, I am going for BW to chop another worker, then a settler. The settler is going for the hill across the way in this picture. 71.65KB __________________ I am not crazy cause I take the right pills..................................... Everyday

08-02-2006, 15:27	#10
grahamiam Emperor Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA, East Coast. Posts: 2,673	Good thing that's an AI warrior next to your worker chopping gives you a lot of shields. You may want to consider saving the chops for settlers/buildings rather than a cheap scout. Contact with the AI is pretty useless until you have Alphabet (tech trading) and Currency (gold trading). It can be argued that meeting them after writing to sign open borders and start getting good relations with some is ok, but it won't make or break the game and the Lib's from Writing are more important. looking at the map, I see a plains hill to the west that has access to a river, cows, and silk. If you settle on a plains hill, you will get 2 hammers from the city center. Another comment on the map (and I apologize for the Monday-Morning QB'ing ): It is really too bad that you didn't settle 1T NE. You would have had access to the coast, fish, pigs, and corn. Also, with a lighthouse, you would have gotten 3fpt from the lake.