Patch 1.10: do we really get a decent C3C soon?

[Beam]

So that will result in an ecliptical cores imo. I recall having seen that in many pbem game descriptions, so that should not really imply to much of a change in strategy. Unless it means building within 10 tiles or so on a standard map.

[ProPain]

Well I have only seen my own game and some screenshots here, but the way I think it works now it acts as a second palace with regard to distance calculation from the orginal palace and not from the FP itself.

Because if the FP location would count in d calculation, why do I get 5 wasted shields out of 6?

[Grille]

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish

I sincerely believe that Firaxis are a bit fed up with us decrypting their whole programme.
Since RCP was discovered and the works of Alexman, Qitai and DaviddesJ, corruption is now a math formula which we can easily control.
Take yourself back before RCP and the discovery of how the FP works in PTW for a minute : what seems obvious to you now was totally indecryptable just a few months ago. Nobody was complaining then no ?
In those days you just built your cities OCP, ICS or tight or whichever way you liked but corruption was not a controlled factor !
It took the community 2 years to decrypt corruption in PTW, I am 100% sure Firaxis wanted to go back to a system which was opaque or at least not decryptable in the 12 hours following the patch release.
People can complain about "intended or not" or "explained or not" but before we understood how the program calculates corruption nobody was complaining that we could not exactly calculate corruption !

Maybe I am wrong but I have never seen anywhere a "rule" from Firaxis explaining how the FP *ever* worked, in vanilla, PTW or C3C ?

No, there wasn't such explanation. But from the poor info in the pedia, you'd get the impression that the FP is basically a second Palace - thus you'd expect a respective kind of behaviour. But in fact, you could waste a GL for FP rush in the wrong place if you'd stick to that expectation.

So just spreading very vague info makes me guess that the original intention about FP mechanics have nothing (?) to do with the software realisation.


When I read 'corruption is fixed' I roughly *thought* of this (may have been just wishes...):

-two seperate 'rank lists' exist when FP is built: FP rank- and Palace rank-list

-a certain city's distance to FP or Palace defines to which rank list it refers to: closer to FP -> city belongs to FP rank list etc; this means: no OCN-corruption benefit from FP for cities belonging to the Palace rank system (="FP doubles OCN" in another interpretation...)
tie breaker need for cities with same distance to FP and Palace

-cities belonging to the same rank list cannot have the same rank; 2 cities belonging to different rank lists can have the same rank

-a rank of a city is defined by # of cities being closer to Palace (resp FP); tie-breaker needed for equidistant cities to avoid RCP

-commie corruption: no distance corruption, but every city gets kind of an avaraged rank for the OCN corruption part (every city has same corruption %). [IMO: changing to commie *should* let you get a slightly improved OCN by just choosing that gov - apart from SPHQ OCN benefit]

Such rules would have been at least logical with regards to the corruption mechanics studies made so far on the one hand and fixing the contained glitches (RCP & FP/P rank bug) on the other hand.

Of course, for us human players, this would still lead to creating two seperate cores - the ai might not be capable to do this.

So...

quote:Originally posted by anarres

Guys, I may be crazy but I think I may prefer this FP behaviour.

Don't know if I exactly prefer this behaviour, but I could live with it. I rarely built FP at all in the C3C (v1.00) games I've played so far and still enjoyed playing, so if there's is some FP effect now - that's fine.

What's getting on my nerves, however, is the vague description of the mechanics.

[ProPain]

Tried to test fp in capital vs FP on little distance from capital. Apparently you cant build an FP in your capital! Cant find a way to override this in the editor so I guess this is hardcoded. Dont feel like making a new test so that will be tomorrow.

[Matrix]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

PP - you misunderstand what the FP now does. It acts as a second palace with respect to distance calculation, but not with respect to rank. It also increases the OCN by 10% (20% for Communism).

This means you should build it relatively close to your palace (so the rank isn't too bad), but not in it!

Imagine the advantage of an early city from a hut far away from your capital. If you build the forbidden palace there - that's the only way of getting a true second core.

By the way, I always thought it didn't matter what rank a city has. Just that there is a rank, but that that rank is determined by the distance to the capital. (When you build a city between two other cities, the corruption in the city farther away increases.) Was I incorrect about this?

[Grille]

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

Tried to test fp in capital vs FP on little distance from capital. Apparently you cant build an FP in your capital! Cant find a way to override this in the editor so I guess this is hardcoded. Dont feel like making a new test so that will be tomorrow.

For such a city, make sure to first get the FP in, then the Palace...

Palace jump is probably the best/easiest way for testing purposes.

[ProPain]

Thanks for the tip GRille, I'll adjust my scenario to start with 2 leaders, So I can test
1) only palace.
2) FP close to Palace
3) Palace &FP in one city

Will post results later

[ERIKK]

Still, check this one: it differs from the other tests. Maybe it is
the low rank of the cities?

Load the scenario and rush the FP in the center of the 2nd core in
turn 2 and watch the results! (Take Rome as civ!)

Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] erik2.zip
15.66*KB

Rome and Cumae get 2 shields while the other 3 get one shield. It must
be the rank! Corruption in the other core stays the same.

[smalltalk]

quote:Originally posted by Grille
For such a city, make sure to first get the FP in, then the Palace...

Oops. I really would have expected the FP to simply vanish in that case.

[Melifluous]

Minor gripe here...

Fuckin Worker bug is still not fixed, do I really still need to wake a fortified warrior to use SHIFT-D diplomacy?

Arseholes.

Melifluous