ALWAYS WAR,MONARCH. - Page 6

Col.Tarleton · 23-05-2004, 19:19

And now,Gaudalcanal.
Sumeria East. 1225 B.C.

119KB

Col.Tarleton · 23-05-2004, 19:24

Sumeria West.1225 B.C.
Pictures brought to you by permission of David Bailey.

109.53KB

All join in the chorus.
We're going well,
We're going Shell,
We're going well with Shell,Shell,Shell.

ProPain · 24-05-2004, 11:04

Start turn
Looking good. One remark, we should really try to build next to rivers more. Not only does it negate the need for an aquadact but also we're only getting our agri-bonus food when on a river.

Interturn
Bizzies build colossus. Nice, that will be ours soon.

Turn 1 - 1200BC
nothing much, Ur finishes sword, switch to settler.

Turn 2 - 1175BC
Found erech.

Turn 3 - 1150BC
We discover CB, switch to myst, will get in 4 turns

Turn 4 - 1125

Turn 5 - 1100 bc
We need more workers, crappy jungle.

Turn 7 - 1050 BC
Start on Poly, 9 turns at -3gpt

Turn 9 - 1000BC
Found Isin, east of Ur, it reveals coast to our eastern side

easy defense! Ur finishes a settler, switch to 2 turn workers, I;m gonna build at least 5 workers. We need chopping capacity. Bizzies show up Near Lagash with a single spear. Nice!

Turn 10 - 975BC
Vet sword kills reg spear, loses 1hp, promotes to elite

Turn 13 - 900BC
Found Akshak. Still no sign of Cleo, very funny.

Turn 14 - 875BC
Should have kept my mouth shut, Cathage warrior shows up in the west, spanish border in the west too

. Time to some trading before we declare war. First Elite sword kills byz spear, no hp lost.

Make peace with theodorea, give her lit, pottery, 3gpt and get CoL and 10 gold
Trade CoL, Lit and 32 gpt for MapMaking, Hbr and 31 gold with hannibal
Trade HBR + 1gpt to Bizzies for Masonry. Carthage has Maths but cant trade for it. Pity we didnt meet them 2 turns later, we would have had poly by then.

Declare war on both.

Turn 15 - 850BC
Meet egyptians, get maths +7 gold for CoL and philo. Declare war on Egypt

Turn 16 - 825BC
Poly done, switch to monarchy, 14 turns at -5gpt. Getting close to avoiding despot GA.

Turn 17 - 800BC

Turn 18 - 775BC

Turn 19 - 750BC

Turn 20 - 730BC
Last turn. Kill a reg carth warrior with an elite swords. Swords loses 3 HP,

Our military is strong compared to everyone and we're outproducing the whole lot. The jungle is severely impeding our production on our western side, we need more workers, I'd like to see 20-25 workers.

We could have Ur and Isin do the worker production, Sumer could do settlers after the granary is done, rest does military. 10 turns to monarchy, we need to revolt asap so we're out of despot GA danger.

Once we have 20 swords we can send 12 swords to wreak havoc in Egypt and Bizzyland.

PP

ProPain · 24-05-2004, 11:18

The world as we know it

134.53KB

Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Always warMonarch730BC.sav
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Col.Tarleton · 24-05-2004, 13:39

My word,Proppers,that was quick.

Just a word about always war,we cannot under any circumstances make peace with any civ,once we have declared.
It is a no,no,to make GPT payments.Straight gold payments are ok but no resource or lux deals either.

Other than breaking all the rules,that was an excellent turn.
Please don't worry about the AW rules fuck up,I thought everyone understood them.(The rules that is)

I think that I'd rather lose a city than jeapardize our imminent G.A in monarchy.
By adjusting the sliders we can get monarchy in 9 and drop lux tav.
I see you haven't bothered with the Great Library,perhaps we can build it after we're in monarchy.

Col.Tarleton · 24-05-2004, 17:10

I'll go into the case for walls and cats without,I hope,causing any offence.
From what I've deduced from your comments,you have not played always war,before.I've played perhaps half a dozen games and learned as I went along.I've read many AW S.G games in CFC and some in web sites belonging to Sulla,T-hawk and Sirian.These,I think you will agree ,are better than average players.
Everyone,without exception,agree that walls are a must and you can't have enough cats.An opinion that I share.
What is your formula for success without these units?If you have one,I'd love to see it.
We have been exceptionally lucky in not meeting our 1st rival until circa turn 60 and 3 other civs until circa turn 75.This is unusual and has allowed us to get away without fighting at least 2 early wars.
Beam states that he has got to 350 A.D.,somewhat smugly I thought,without walls and cats.Knocking out 1 civ,still leaves 4 others and if you play on you'll find that you still need them.
Meeting the other AI at such a late date means that they are probably at war with each other.This means that if we're lucky they don't have much in the way of spare troops to throw at us.On the other hand,they might not be and Matrix can expect the AI to turn up on our doorstep,mob handed.Then,without walls and cats the shit will hit the fan,we'll see what happens.
The whole idea of walls is to keep our casualties down,we need a better than 10-1 win rate,4,5,6-1 rates won't hack it.Cats are usefull for the same purpose inasmuch as they knoct hit points off 2 defence units making it easier to kill them.
I know you love a challenge,Propain,but I can't think of a worse civ for AW.There probably are some,just that none comes to mind.In order to get our G.A in monarchy we are reduced to defendining our defenders.Because of the fortuitous circumstances of this game ,we night even do it.We cannot revolt to Monarchy,early enough.
I didn't pick Literature on a whim as our free tech,the idea was to build a temple ASAP in our second best city,improve every workable tile around it and meld workers into the city to get it to size 8,I think we could have got the G.L.had we done that,revolt to Monarchy,notwithstanding,It's probably too late now.The Great Library is almost a must in AW.I certainly would not have traded Lit.
Matrix,try to get a V.sword in our front line cities,along with at least an archer.The Vet sword will take defensive priority over a reg inky.If you've got any vet inkies in the front line,remove them,it takes only 1 losing attack on an inky to trigger our G.A.
All in all,we're doing very well and plaudits to all of us.
If I've trodden on any toes,I apologise in advance.

Beam · 24-05-2004, 17:36

Quote:

quote:Beam states that he has got to 350 A.D.,somewhat smugly I thought,without walls and cats.Knocking out 1 civ,still leaves 4 others and if you play on you'll find that you still need them.

I played on a different map with the same settings and number 1 in most relevant areas, no smuggling like AI deals, then declare war if you are referring to. The Great Lib really helps freeing up cash for purchases when in Mon.

As said, a Knight stack is moving in the offense now and Meds taking care of defenses and keeping the AI form attacking my cities in my testrun and everything looks OK. For cats I can see a purpose because they take hitpoints but they have a hitratio of 33 / 50 % iirc? So that means quite a number of them to be sure they do their job. In an approach of keeping the AI away from the city walls there really is no need for walls imo.

Don't worry about my toes Tarly, I like the exchange of views. [;}]

Col.Tarleton · 24-05-2004, 17:42

Thanks for being understanding,Beam,and you may very well be right in your aproach to A.W.It just goes against received wisdom,is all.

Beam · 24-05-2004, 22:44

Welcome Colonel, I am just trying to exchange views, have an open mind, do some reasoning behind it and try to understand. In Civ a better strat. is always lurking in the fog once you thought you found the best one.

Given your experience with A.W. games, what is a typical mix of cats, offensive units and defensive ones in this stage of the game?

Col.Tarleton · 24-05-2004, 23:16

In the games that I've played,I've always been pinned down by the number of troops that the AI have been able to send in the early stages of the game,say up until 300 A.D.By gradually increasing my forces and working on infra in parallel I am finally able to go on the offensive.At this stage in our game,I'm normally under the hammer and have about 6 cats at strategic positons.I increase these as is necessary.All my cities have walls.The game that I play is texas holdem until I get ahead.I'm currently playing my 1st AW conq game as your friends and mine,the Scandyhoolies.I got a leader early and the only army I could form was an archer or spear army.The spear army is happilly pillaging the snot out of my last continental oponent,the germans.This is 1000 A.D. and it is still never challenged.Remarkable.
Armies are definately the way to go in conquests.I hope this answers some of your queries.

23-05-2004, 19:19	#51
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	And now,Gaudalcanal. Sumeria East. 1225 B.C. 119KB __________________ Basil!!!!!

23-05-2004, 19:24	#52
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	Sumeria West.1225 B.C. Pictures brought to you by permission of David Bailey. 109.53KB All join in the chorus. We're going well, We're going Shell, We're going well with Shell,Shell,Shell. __________________ Basil!!!!!

24-05-2004, 11:04	#53
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	Start turn Looking good. One remark, we should really try to build next to rivers more. Not only does it negate the need for an aquadact but also we're only getting our agri-bonus food when on a river. Interturn Bizzies build colossus. Nice, that will be ours soon. Turn 1 - 1200BC nothing much, Ur finishes sword, switch to settler. Turn 2 - 1175BC Found erech. Turn 3 - 1150BC We discover CB, switch to myst, will get in 4 turns Turn 4 - 1125 Turn 5 - 1100 bc We need more workers, crappy jungle. Turn 7 - 1050 BC Start on Poly, 9 turns at -3gpt Turn 9 - 1000BC Found Isin, east of Ur, it reveals coast to our eastern side easy defense! Ur finishes a settler, switch to 2 turn workers, I;m gonna build at least 5 workers. We need chopping capacity. Bizzies show up Near Lagash with a single spear. Nice! Turn 10 - 975BC Vet sword kills reg spear, loses 1hp, promotes to elite Turn 13 - 900BC Found Akshak. Still no sign of Cleo, very funny. Turn 14 - 875BC Should have kept my mouth shut, Cathage warrior shows up in the west, spanish border in the west too . Time to some trading before we declare war. First Elite sword kills byz spear, no hp lost. Make peace with theodorea, give her lit, pottery, 3gpt and get CoL and 10 gold Trade CoL, Lit and 32 gpt for MapMaking, Hbr and 31 gold with hannibal Trade HBR + 1gpt to Bizzies for Masonry. Carthage has Maths but cant trade for it. Pity we didnt meet them 2 turns later, we would have had poly by then. Declare war on both. Turn 15 - 850BC Meet egyptians, get maths +7 gold for CoL and philo. Declare war on Egypt Turn 16 - 825BC Poly done, switch to monarchy, 14 turns at -5gpt. Getting close to avoiding despot GA. Turn 17 - 800BC Turn 18 - 775BC Turn 19 - 750BC Turn 20 - 730BC Last turn. Kill a reg carth warrior with an elite swords. Swords loses 3 HP, Our military is strong compared to everyone and we're outproducing the whole lot. The jungle is severely impeding our production on our western side, we need more workers, I'd like to see 20-25 workers. We could have Ur and Isin do the worker production, Sumer could do settlers after the granary is done, rest does military. 10 turns to monarchy, we need to revolt asap so we're out of despot GA danger. Once we have 20 swords we can send 12 swords to wreak havoc in Egypt and Bizzyland. PP __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

24-05-2004, 11:18	#54
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	The world as we know it 134.53KB Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Always warMonarch730BC.sav 100.89KB __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah

24-05-2004, 13:39	#55
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	My word,Proppers,that was quick. Just a word about always war,we cannot under any circumstances make peace with any civ,once we have declared. It is a no,no,to make GPT payments.Straight gold payments are ok but no resource or lux deals either. Other than breaking all the rules,that was an excellent turn. Please don't worry about the AW rules fuck up,I thought everyone understood them.(The rules that is) I think that I'd rather lose a city than jeapardize our imminent G.A in monarchy. By adjusting the sliders we can get monarchy in 9 and drop lux tav. I see you haven't bothered with the Great Library,perhaps we can build it after we're in monarchy. __________________ Basil!!!!!

24-05-2004, 17:10	#56
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	I'll go into the case for walls and cats without,I hope,causing any offence. From what I've deduced from your comments,you have not played always war,before.I've played perhaps half a dozen games and learned as I went along.I've read many AW S.G games in CFC and some in web sites belonging to Sulla,T-hawk and Sirian.These,I think you will agree ,are better than average players. Everyone,without exception,agree that walls are a must and you can't have enough cats.An opinion that I share. What is your formula for success without these units?If you have one,I'd love to see it. We have been exceptionally lucky in not meeting our 1st rival until circa turn 60 and 3 other civs until circa turn 75.This is unusual and has allowed us to get away without fighting at least 2 early wars. Beam states that he has got to 350 A.D.,somewhat smugly I thought,without walls and cats.Knocking out 1 civ,still leaves 4 others and if you play on you'll find that you still need them. Meeting the other AI at such a late date means that they are probably at war with each other.This means that if we're lucky they don't have much in the way of spare troops to throw at us.On the other hand,they might not be and Matrix can expect the AI to turn up on our doorstep,mob handed.Then,without walls and cats the shit will hit the fan,we'll see what happens. The whole idea of walls is to keep our casualties down,we need a better than 10-1 win rate,4,5,6-1 rates won't hack it.Cats are usefull for the same purpose inasmuch as they knoct hit points off 2 defence units making it easier to kill them. I know you love a challenge,Propain,but I can't think of a worse civ for AW.There probably are some,just that none comes to mind.In order to get our G.A in monarchy we are reduced to defendining our defenders.Because of the fortuitous circumstances of this game ,we night even do it.We cannot revolt to Monarchy,early enough. I didn't pick Literature on a whim as our free tech,the idea was to build a temple ASAP in our second best city,improve every workable tile around it and meld workers into the city to get it to size 8,I think we could have got the G.L.had we done that,revolt to Monarchy,notwithstanding,It's probably too late now.The Great Library is almost a must in AW.I certainly would not have traded Lit. Matrix,try to get a V.sword in our front line cities,along with at least an archer.The Vet sword will take defensive priority over a reg inky.If you've got any vet inkies in the front line,remove them,it takes only 1 losing attack on an inky to trigger our G.A. All in all,we're doing very well and plaudits to all of us. If I've trodden on any toes,I apologise in advance. __________________ Basil!!!!!

24-05-2004, 17:42	#58
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	Thanks for being understanding,Beam,and you may very well be right in your aproach to A.W.It just goes against received wisdom,is all. __________________ Basil!!!!!

24-05-2004, 22:44	#59
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Welcome Colonel, I am just trying to exchange views, have an open mind, do some reasoning behind it and try to understand. In Civ a better strat. is always lurking in the fog once you thought you found the best one. Given your experience with A.W. games, what is a typical mix of cats, offensive units and defensive ones in this stage of the game? __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

24-05-2004, 23:16	#60
Col.Tarleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent,UK. Posts: 298	In the games that I've played,I've always been pinned down by the number of troops that the AI have been able to send in the early stages of the game,say up until 300 A.D.By gradually increasing my forces and working on infra in parallel I am finally able to go on the offensive.At this stage in our game,I'm normally under the hammer and have about 6 cats at strategic positons.I increase these as is necessary.All my cities have walls.The game that I play is texas holdem until I get ahead.I'm currently playing my 1st AW conq game as your friends and mine,the Scandyhoolies.I got a leader early and the only army I could form was an archer or spear army.The spear army is happilly pillaging the snot out of my last continental oponent,the germans.This is 1000 A.D. and it is still never challenged.Remarkable. Armies are definately the way to go in conquests.I hope this answers some of your queries. __________________ Basil!!!!!