I hate rules but a clear bottom line is needed - Page 2

Skyfish · 03-01-2004, 23:28

First off nobody say it was a "rule" !
I was pulling your leg of course

Second, you are totally right we should write that kinda stuff here on the site but we could not get our fingers out of our asses...

Third the rule is simple : anything that means you get an advantage over your opponent because of a *bug* or programming problem of Civ3 should not be exploited.
For example :
Player 2 getting wonder completion messages and not player 1 = unfair advantage, not meant to be like that : in SP everybody gets the message.
Game not telling you when someone has tried to steal = unfair advantage, not meant to be like that : in SP any civ will know someone tried to steal from them !

Get my drift ?

Also when you say you keep a spoiler : now what good is that for your opponent's battle report since he cant read it ?

EDIT : Cross posted with DrA and ten other posts

Aggie · 03-01-2004, 23:40

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish

EDIT : Cross posted with DrA and ten other posts

NO!! It is good to have different point of views. Even yours

Skyfish · 03-01-2004, 23:42

Well ours are the same so...

Beam · 03-01-2004, 23:54

Quote:

quote:First off nobody say it was a "rule" !
I was pulling your leg of course

Sky, you made a clear and fair point, nothing pers. involved here.

My point basically is to be clear about what is "obvious" and what is to be decided among players. I missed an obvious one tonight but in this case clearly settled with erik, just want to avoid any of this in the future by being clear about it.

col · 04-01-2004, 10:12

I agree that anything one player gets the other player should get. Thats only fair but there is no need to go any further than that. There is no need for parity with SP and the AI at all.

Wonder completions are not an issue - they can be checked with f7. I thought neither player got a failed spy message which is Ok since its the same for both. Each player sees the results of their own combats so why inform anyone of anything?

DrAlimentado · 04-01-2004, 11:16

There certainly is room for debate on what needs reporting, all that is important of course is that both players agree to the same thing before starting a game.

The problem at the moment is that quite a number of players DO expect battle reports and wonder reports etc. and consider it as being too obvious to need mentioning! Whilst I agree with the reports that isn't important - what's important is to avoid the situation of getting halfway through a game and then discovering that you are playing by different rules.

Instead of stating baseline rules (which would indicate a preference one way or another) perhaps all we need to do is state the baseline 'issues' - and players need to be aware they need to state the obvious before starting a game.

col · 04-01-2004, 11:27

Its getting so that there needs to be a lot of negotiation before a game even starts. I think I'm with Meli these days - anything goes and dont expect any favours

DrAlimentado · 04-01-2004, 11:31

LOL, fair enough, but millions disagree

Aggie · 04-01-2004, 11:48

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by col

Its getting so that there needs to be a lot of negotiation before a game even starts. I think I'm with Meli these days - anything goes and dont expect any favours

It's not that bad. Usually it takes not more than 10 minutes to agree on things. And I stick to all agreements that I make. And until now all my opponents did so as well..

ProPain · 04-01-2004, 12:12

my 2cents:

- Battle reports. I want em when my units are attacked by other human player, so I know what losses my opponents has suffered instead of just seeing fog where my unit used to be. Other battles, I dont need to know unless I ask for them.

- Spying missions. When spying on an AI I wouldn't know why I should tell the other human player(s) when it failed. You dont get a message on AI-AI spying in SP too. The human/human spying can be told but isnt a must tell for me either. The advantage of not being told goes both ways, so if you agree not to tell, noone has an advantage. So I would say telling a spy mission failed isn't a rule unless agreed upon by both players.

Wonder reports: Check the f7 screen, you bunch of lazy cunts

" anything goes and dont expect any favours " : Meli

I think so too.

03-01-2004, 23:28	#11
Skyfish Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: dead. Posts: 2,349	First off nobody say it was a "rule" ! I was pulling your leg of course Second, you are totally right we should write that kinda stuff here on the site but we could not get our fingers out of our asses... Third the rule is simple : anything that means you get an advantage over your opponent because of a bug or programming problem of Civ3 should not be exploited. For example : Player 2 getting wonder completion messages and not player 1 = unfair advantage, not meant to be like that : in SP everybody gets the message. Game not telling you when someone has tried to steal = unfair advantage, not meant to be like that : in SP any civ will know someone tried to steal from them ! Get my drift ? Also when you say you keep a spoiler : now what good is that for your opponent's battle report since he cant read it ? EDIT : Cross posted with DrA and ten other posts __________________ <font color=\"brown\"> <b><i>\"NOT back from the dead\"</b></i> </font id=\"brown\">

03-01-2004, 23:42	#13
Skyfish Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: dead. Posts: 2,349	Well ours are the same so... __________________ <font color=\"brown\"> <b><i>\"NOT back from the dead\"</b></i> </font id=\"brown\">

04-01-2004, 10:12	#15
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	I agree that anything one player gets the other player should get. Thats only fair but there is no need to go any further than that. There is no need for parity with SP and the AI at all. Wonder completions are not an issue - they can be checked with f7. I thought neither player got a failed spy message which is Ok since its the same for both. Each player sees the results of their own combats so why inform anyone of anything? __________________ I can't be arsed.

04-01-2004, 11:16	#16
DrAlimentado Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the cookie jar. Posts: 1,568	There certainly is room for debate on what needs reporting, all that is important of course is that both players agree to the same thing before starting a game. The problem at the moment is that quite a number of players DO expect battle reports and wonder reports etc. and consider it as being too obvious to need mentioning! Whilst I agree with the reports that isn't important - what's important is to avoid the situation of getting halfway through a game and then discovering that you are playing by different rules. Instead of stating baseline rules (which would indicate a preference one way or another) perhaps all we need to do is state the baseline 'issues' - and players need to be aware they need to state the obvious before starting a game. __________________ <font color=\"red\">sign up for the best game on the forum</font id=\"red\"> <font color=\"green\">My Army</font id=\"green\"> <font color=\"green\">Help my orcs to prosper</font id=\"green\"> MapTweaker Utility beta (copy/paste/resize biq files)

04-01-2004, 11:27	#17
col King Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Sandwich Islands. Posts: 1,529	Its getting so that there needs to be a lot of negotiation before a game even starts. I think I'm with Meli these days - anything goes and dont expect any favours __________________ I can't be arsed.

04-01-2004, 11:31	#18
DrAlimentado Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the cookie jar. Posts: 1,568	LOL, fair enough, but millions disagree __________________ <font color=\"red\">sign up for the best game on the forum</font id=\"red\"> <font color=\"green\">My Army</font id=\"green\"> <font color=\"green\">Help my orcs to prosper</font id=\"green\"> MapTweaker Utility beta (copy/paste/resize biq files)

04-01-2004, 12:12	#20
ProPain Customized Admin :) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sailing the seas of cheese. Posts: 5,852	my 2cents: - Battle reports. I want em when my units are attacked by other human player, so I know what losses my opponents has suffered instead of just seeing fog where my unit used to be. Other battles, I dont need to know unless I ask for them. - Spying missions. When spying on an AI I wouldn't know why I should tell the other human player(s) when it failed. You dont get a message on AI-AI spying in SP too. The human/human spying can be told but isnt a must tell for me either. The advantage of not being told goes both ways, so if you agree not to tell, noone has an advantage. So I would say telling a spy mission failed isn't a rule unless agreed upon by both players. Wonder reports: Check the f7 screen, you bunch of lazy cunts " anything goes and dont expect any favours " : Meli I think so too. __________________ I fed my Dog the American Dream Well, he rolled over and he started to scream He said, I dig the taste of salt but it don't keep me alive yeah, yeah