PBEM *Spoiler*, Akots vs. Justus II - Page 2

grahamiam · 07-11-2004, 02:50

nice looking game you got going and very nice writeup. iron and horses so close, setting up some fun

this should be an old rock-em-socket-em type game

can't wait to see what happens...

Justus II · 13-11-2004, 00:46

1000 BC Update

We've reached 1000BC. Still struggling to get Republic, was down to 10 turns, but Japan just demanded (and got) 20g, so I had to stop running a deficit for few turns. Their time is coming soon, though! I'm currently racing their settler pairs to get the last one or two decent spots in the north (current settler headed for the forest SE of the cow). I have a couple horsemen in the area, so I should be able to slow him down enough to beat him. I'm up to 5 Horsemen, and Amsterdam is now at 15spt, so one every other turn. With the few coming in from The Hague, Utrecht, and Eindhoven, I should be able to attack with 12 horses in 8 more turns. My objectives are Edo (for the Ivory) and Osaka, then either raze some of the small annoying villages (Izumo, Nagasaki, Nagoya) and grab a settler pair or two for some free workers. I'm hoping to time it so that I can hit him hard, then get peace as I'm switching to Republic.

The Ivory will help with happiness, as will Carthage's gems. I will have a second silk connected in a couple more turns, and can trade for them then. Both Japan and Carthage are up Construction, Polytheism, and Monarchy, and are in the process of revolting now. Republic should be enough to get both those techs, and Currency if either of them research it by then.

Haven't heard anything from the other continent yet. I can tell from the score that England is still weakened. The gap between my score and Akot's has been growing over the last few turns, not sure if that means he's out of expansion room, or if he's already got Republic and going through his anarchy. I'm assuming the latter, better to assume worst case and be pleasantly suprised!

109.43*KB

Justus II · 24-11-2004, 05:41

650 AD - The War Begins

After finally getting Republic in 775 BC, I immediately revolted, and drew a reasonable 4-turn anarchy. I was also able to trade it to Japan for Construction, Polytheism, and 26g. I didn't sell it to Carthage, as all they had was Monarchy. Of course, before the anarchy ended, they had Currency, and had already picked up Republic from Japan.

I had already aggressively settled Leiden, right up against Edo's cultural borders, but in a position to poach the Ivory, and quickly connected it, which helped with happiness through the anarchy. I also traded a spare silks to Carthage for Gems, since we both had harbors and a road route.

Following the anarchy, war preperations were in high gear. I had massed 10 horses near Leiden, and a few more by Utrecht. I used my Republic cash to upgrade a couple warriors to swords, with 2 more ready in a couple turns. I didn't want to delay too long, and by 650 BC the horses were in place,

and my advisor actually said I was strong compared to Japan.

(I am weak compared to Carthage, though, so for insurance purposes I bought Currency from them for 22gpt).

Here's the map, after the first turn's attack. I took out both Edo and Izumo, relieving the pressure on Leiden. I will probably abandon Edo, and resettle it one SW, putting it on the coast and making room for another city between it and Osaka. Osaka is my next objective, I plan to heal the horses for a turn or two and then converge with the stack from the south, and some new horses from Utrecht. Up north, my plan is to pick off some wandering warriors (I have a couple swords and soon a second cat up there), then possibly march on Nagasaki.

By then, I hope to have advanced on Nagoya, establishing a new border, and in a position to get the other tundra cities for peace, and/or a healthy discount on Literature.

127.62KB
Note the curragh off my coast, on the opening turn of the war, a Japanese Galley was sailing by, so he sailed out of port, and sank him without a scratch!

Justus II · 27-11-2004, 21:40

News from the Front

The war goes well! After taking the first two cities (Edo and Izumo), my horsemen converged on Osaka, which fell two turns later. Meanwhile, a couple swords in the north (and my 2 catapults) killed off some wandering warriors. I began to see some swords near Nagoya, and also at his Iron near Kyoto (I sent 2 pillaging spears), but no horses yet. I know he has them connected, though. Bypassing a couple warriors moving into my territory, I concentrated another 6 horses on a mountain, and in 550BC I took Nagoya. Using horses from further back to then mop up the warriors, I was pleasantly suprised with this message:

122.52KB
I guess I need to study my Dutch history, who's Abel Tasman?

He is sent back to to build an army, but I'll wait until Chivalry to fill it. Even after the fall of Nagoya, getting Nagasaki in peace is still doubtful.

I can get Shimonoseki, and Literature, which is tempting, but I don't want to leave Nagasaki as a sore spot. So I mop up some more warriors, and move a couple more swords north. I should be able to take Nagasaki in another turn or two, although it will probably autoraze, then I'll settle for Shimonoseki and Lit, and focus on infrastructure. I've already started swapping a few cities to temples, which I will probably swap to Libraries. With Japan crippled, I think I'll be researching on my own for a while.

Kemal · 27-11-2004, 22:12

Probably others such as beam and Jack Merchant would be more qualified to answer, and be able to tell you a lot more about this fellow... but since I am here and they are not: Abel Tasman was an explorer in Dutch service who discovered Australia, and the little island just south of it, which is named after him, Tasmania.

Any history experts of course feel free to correct or add to this meager amount of information.

Beam · 27-11-2004, 22:51

Abel Tasman also discovered New Zealand which is named after the Dutch province of Zeeland. He explored a lot of Australian coast but missed the Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney part entirely. The honoraries for that go to James Cook.

As a matter of fact Australia wasn't really discovered by Abel Tasman but by Dutch merchant vessels on their way to Dutch East India (Indonesia). This as a consequence of the Dutch discovery of the prevealing western winds when sailing from Cape Town. Before that discovery ships would follow the Africain coast towards India and further on to Indonesia but they were very dependant on the trade- and Mussoon winds for the progress of their travel which could last for years.

At that time ships were very able to determine their latitude (how far N or S) but determining their longitude was basically done by dead-reckoning (estimate speed, what you know about currents and guess where you are after x number of days). Any errors in dead-reckoning accumulate day after day and if you look at a worldmap you can imagine that ships did hit Western Australian reefs.

Tasmans expidition basically was initiated because the VOC (Dutch East Indies Company) learned from survivors that they lost ships on coasts to the S of the colony and they wanted to investigate what was really out there. Since the VOCs primary interest was trade and not colonization they stopped further exploration after Tasmans return in Batavia.

Determining longitude only became possible in the 18th century once accurate clocks were developed and the time difference with Greenwich from any given location could be determined within a fraction of a second.

Although many think that Columbus used astronavigation to find the New World it is pretty sure that he used dead-reckoning to get there and back to Spain. He simply sailed west and as you can see on a worldmap it is impossible to miss the Americas. What he and no one else knew at that time was that compass deviation and currents had put him about 15 degrees S of a true W course.

Am I redefining threadjacking or what?

Pastorius · 27-11-2004, 23:10

Interesting. So you guys arent just clog-wearing cheese-eaters then.

Dunno what this says, but it is somewhat appropriate (I didnt jack the thread [

]

Beam · 27-11-2004, 23:26

That really is Kingreno's area!

To give a clue: Dutch would use that sentence when dubya approves abortion, scientists prove the moon is flat and made of green cheese, green man invade Earth from Mars and AoA confesses to be gay while opposing the invasion of Iraq.

Justus II · 28-11-2004, 02:35

Well, I'm learning all kinds of new things!! I knew about the Dutch exploration of the Dutch East Indies, but didn't realize the connection with Austalia (makes sense, though).

@Beam: I understand the example you're giving, sounds like the phrase is something like our "When Hell freezes over" or, in my area, "When the Cubs win the World Series". But I don't get the last comment, who is AoA?

Justus II · 28-11-2004, 03:50

What a difference a turn makes!

Well, although I thought I had a pretty good idea of how I would wrap up the war, you have to be willing to change to meet new opportunities. The turn after I posted the last screenshot, I again checked the current peace offer, and found that Japan had acquired Feudalism! Now THAT was something worth bargaining for. Carthage was doubtful, even offering my whole economy (50gpt and some change), but Japan would give it to me for 20gpt as part of a peace deal. That's a significant savings, worth way more than those tundra cities. I still had some healthy forces up front, however, so I decided to see what else I could grab. I hadn't planned on it, but killing off his swords had left me with 5 horses in range of Nara, so I decided to go for it,

and captured the city, with Harbor intact. My swords were still advancing on Nagasaki, even though I wasn't going to take the tundra cities in peace, it would be worth it to autoraze that city and give my northern region some more room. Destroying Nagasaki in 510BC was enough to drop the price on Feudalism to 9gpt

Even adding in Literature only bumped it up to 17gpt (Carthage wanted 10gpt for that alone), so I took them both. I was able to recoup 4gpt by selling Japan my silks, in a seperate transaction.

I also had more time (while learning who Abel Tasman actually was

) to decide if I really wanted to save him for a later army. Looking at the tech situation, and our economy, it would be 20+ turns before I got to Monotheism, let alone Chivalry, and that seemed too long to hold an empty army. Instead, I could use him to rush the FP in Utrecht, which would be somewhat better located for my new Japanese cities, and allow Rotterdam to swap to a Market. It also would get the FP online about 10 turns sooner, which would help my economy as well.

Here's my new, peaceful republic in 510BC. I have one settler headed to the hill NW of Edo, and will then rush the settler at Edo itself (abandoning the city) and resettle on the incense to the SW.

128.11KB

I'm currently using just scientists for research, so I save cash for a few turns and upgrade to my new Watergeus defenders!

27-11-2004, 22:12	#15
Kemal Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 3,108	Probably others such as beam and Jack Merchant would be more qualified to answer, and be able to tell you a lot more about this fellow... but since I am here and they are not: Abel Tasman was an explorer in Dutch service who discovered Australia, and the little island just south of it, which is named after him, Tasmania. Any history experts of course feel free to correct or add to this meager amount of information. __________________ <b>\"In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die\" </b>

27-11-2004, 22:51	#16
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	Abel Tasman also discovered New Zealand which is named after the Dutch province of Zeeland. He explored a lot of Australian coast but missed the Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney part entirely. The honoraries for that go to James Cook. As a matter of fact Australia wasn't really discovered by Abel Tasman but by Dutch merchant vessels on their way to Dutch East India (Indonesia). This as a consequence of the Dutch discovery of the prevealing western winds when sailing from Cape Town. Before that discovery ships would follow the Africain coast towards India and further on to Indonesia but they were very dependant on the trade- and Mussoon winds for the progress of their travel which could last for years. At that time ships were very able to determine their latitude (how far N or S) but determining their longitude was basically done by dead-reckoning (estimate speed, what you know about currents and guess where you are after x number of days). Any errors in dead-reckoning accumulate day after day and if you look at a worldmap you can imagine that ships did hit Western Australian reefs. Tasmans expidition basically was initiated because the VOC (Dutch East Indies Company) learned from survivors that they lost ships on coasts to the S of the colony and they wanted to investigate what was really out there. Since the VOCs primary interest was trade and not colonization they stopped further exploration after Tasmans return in Batavia. Determining longitude only became possible in the 18th century once accurate clocks were developed and the time difference with Greenwich from any given location could be determined within a fraction of a second. Although many think that Columbus used astronavigation to find the New World it is pretty sure that he used dead-reckoning to get there and back to Spain. He simply sailed west and as you can see on a worldmap it is impossible to miss the Americas. What he and no one else knew at that time was that compass deviation and currents had put him about 15 degrees S of a true W course. Am I redefining threadjacking or what? __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

27-11-2004, 23:10	#17
Pastorius Custard used tile Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Opening a can Posts: 3,158	Interesting. So you guys arent just clog-wearing cheese-eaters then. Dunno what this says, but it is somewhat appropriate (I didnt jack the thread [] __________________

27-11-2004, 23:26	#18
Beam c00l b33r Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Beat 'm up Scotty!. Lives in the Lands that are Nether. Posts: 5,094	That really is Kingreno's area! To give a clue: Dutch would use that sentence when dubya approves abortion, scientists prove the moon is flat and made of green cheese, green man invade Earth from Mars and AoA confesses to be gay while opposing the invasion of Iraq. __________________ That was a pretty good gamble. -- Scotty, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2821.5, Episode 14 Linux never looked this good!

07-11-2004, 02:50	#11
grahamiam Emperor Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA, East Coast. Posts: 2,673	nice looking game you got going and very nice writeup. iron and horses so close, setting up some fun this should be an old rock-em-socket-em type game can't wait to see what happens...

13-11-2004, 00:46	#12
Justus II Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Peoria, IL. Posts: 173	1000 BC Update We've reached 1000BC. Still struggling to get Republic, was down to 10 turns, but Japan just demanded (and got) 20g, so I had to stop running a deficit for few turns. Their time is coming soon, though! I'm currently racing their settler pairs to get the last one or two decent spots in the north (current settler headed for the forest SE of the cow). I have a couple horsemen in the area, so I should be able to slow him down enough to beat him. I'm up to 5 Horsemen, and Amsterdam is now at 15spt, so one every other turn. With the few coming in from The Hague, Utrecht, and Eindhoven, I should be able to attack with 12 horses in 8 more turns. My objectives are Edo (for the Ivory) and Osaka, then either raze some of the small annoying villages (Izumo, Nagasaki, Nagoya) and grab a settler pair or two for some free workers. I'm hoping to time it so that I can hit him hard, then get peace as I'm switching to Republic. The Ivory will help with happiness, as will Carthage's gems. I will have a second silk connected in a couple more turns, and can trade for them then. Both Japan and Carthage are up Construction, Polytheism, and Monarchy, and are in the process of revolting now. Republic should be enough to get both those techs, and Currency if either of them research it by then. Haven't heard anything from the other continent yet. I can tell from the score that England is still weakened. The gap between my score and Akot's has been growing over the last few turns, not sure if that means he's out of expansion room, or if he's already got Republic and going through his anarchy. I'm assuming the latter, better to assume worst case and be pleasantly suprised! 109.43*KB

24-11-2004, 05:41	#13
Justus II Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Peoria, IL. Posts: 173	650 AD - The War Begins After finally getting Republic in 775 BC, I immediately revolted, and drew a reasonable 4-turn anarchy. I was also able to trade it to Japan for Construction, Polytheism, and 26g. I didn't sell it to Carthage, as all they had was Monarchy. Of course, before the anarchy ended, they had Currency, and had already picked up Republic from Japan. I had already aggressively settled Leiden, right up against Edo's cultural borders, but in a position to poach the Ivory, and quickly connected it, which helped with happiness through the anarchy. I also traded a spare silks to Carthage for Gems, since we both had harbors and a road route. Following the anarchy, war preperations were in high gear. I had massed 10 horses near Leiden, and a few more by Utrecht. I used my Republic cash to upgrade a couple warriors to swords, with 2 more ready in a couple turns. I didn't want to delay too long, and by 650 BC the horses were in place, and my advisor actually said I was strong compared to Japan. (I am weak compared to Carthage, though, so for insurance purposes I bought Currency from them for 22gpt). Here's the map, after the first turn's attack. I took out both Edo and Izumo, relieving the pressure on Leiden. I will probably abandon Edo, and resettle it one SW, putting it on the coast and making room for another city between it and Osaka. Osaka is my next objective, I plan to heal the horses for a turn or two and then converge with the stack from the south, and some new horses from Utrecht. Up north, my plan is to pick off some wandering warriors (I have a couple swords and soon a second cat up there), then possibly march on Nagasaki. By then, I hope to have advanced on Nagoya, establishing a new border, and in a position to get the other tundra cities for peace, and/or a healthy discount on Literature. 127.62KB Note the curragh off my coast, on the opening turn of the war, a Japanese Galley was sailing by, so he sailed out of port, and sank him without a scratch!

27-11-2004, 21:40	#14
Justus II Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Peoria, IL. Posts: 173	News from the Front The war goes well! After taking the first two cities (Edo and Izumo), my horsemen converged on Osaka, which fell two turns later. Meanwhile, a couple swords in the north (and my 2 catapults) killed off some wandering warriors. I began to see some swords near Nagoya, and also at his Iron near Kyoto (I sent 2 pillaging spears), but no horses yet. I know he has them connected, though. Bypassing a couple warriors moving into my territory, I concentrated another 6 horses on a mountain, and in 550BC I took Nagoya. Using horses from further back to then mop up the warriors, I was pleasantly suprised with this message: 122.52KB I guess I need to study my Dutch history, who's Abel Tasman? He is sent back to to build an army, but I'll wait until Chivalry to fill it. Even after the fall of Nagoya, getting Nagasaki in peace is still doubtful. I can get Shimonoseki, and Literature, which is tempting, but I don't want to leave Nagasaki as a sore spot. So I mop up some more warriors, and move a couple more swords north. I should be able to take Nagasaki in another turn or two, although it will probably autoraze, then I'll settle for Shimonoseki and Lit, and focus on infrastructure. I've already started swapping a few cities to temples, which I will probably swap to Libraries. With Japan crippled, I think I'll be researching on my own for a while.

28-11-2004, 02:35	#19
Justus II Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Peoria, IL. Posts: 173	Well, I'm learning all kinds of new things!! I knew about the Dutch exploration of the Dutch East Indies, but didn't realize the connection with Austalia (makes sense, though). @Beam: I understand the example you're giving, sounds like the phrase is something like our "When Hell freezes over" or, in my area, "When the Cubs win the World Series". But I don't get the last comment, who is AoA?

28-11-2004, 03:50	#20
Justus II Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Peoria, IL. Posts: 173	What a difference a turn makes! Well, although I thought I had a pretty good idea of how I would wrap up the war, you have to be willing to change to meet new opportunities. The turn after I posted the last screenshot, I again checked the current peace offer, and found that Japan had acquired Feudalism! Now THAT was something worth bargaining for. Carthage was doubtful, even offering my whole economy (50gpt and some change), but Japan would give it to me for 20gpt as part of a peace deal. That's a significant savings, worth way more than those tundra cities. I still had some healthy forces up front, however, so I decided to see what else I could grab. I hadn't planned on it, but killing off his swords had left me with 5 horses in range of Nara, so I decided to go for it, and captured the city, with Harbor intact. My swords were still advancing on Nagasaki, even though I wasn't going to take the tundra cities in peace, it would be worth it to autoraze that city and give my northern region some more room. Destroying Nagasaki in 510BC was enough to drop the price on Feudalism to 9gpt Even adding in Literature only bumped it up to 17gpt (Carthage wanted 10gpt for that alone), so I took them both. I was able to recoup 4gpt by selling Japan my silks, in a seperate transaction. I also had more time (while learning who Abel Tasman actually was ) to decide if I really wanted to save him for a later army. Looking at the tech situation, and our economy, it would be 20+ turns before I got to Monotheism, let alone Chivalry, and that seemed too long to hold an empty army. Instead, I could use him to rush the FP in Utrecht, which would be somewhat better located for my new Japanese cities, and allow Rotterdam to swap to a Market. It also would get the FP online about 10 turns sooner, which would help my economy as well. Here's my new, peaceful republic in 510BC. I have one settler headed to the hill NW of Edo, and will then rush the settler at Edo itself (abandoning the city) and resettle on the incense to the SW. 128.11KB I'm currently using just scientists for research, so I save cash for a few turns and upgrade to my new Watergeus defenders!