Spoiler: Cut More Crap

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Stapel

Back! But very tired.

That didn't work like I had hoped for....


Anyway, Plattfuss idea of me giving him compensation is totally

RIDICULOUS

Sorry about the way things went, Stapel, but Plattfuss just had much more units.

At least you should be able to build/upgrade to macemen in a few turns and bleed him if he decides to conquer the whole Ruckhoven empire. Cold comfort, I know, but it was the best I could do...

[Stapel]

Well, in the end, Plattfuss had too much time to build up a force too. I saw that coming, but there was no way back. I simply had no alternative for my units.

I was quite surprised by Plattfuss' production rates though.

In civ, the attacker has a huge disadvantage, because the 'first strike' is with the defender. Plattfuss could simply wait for my forces to be near and then hit me hard with cats (I suppose). My plan was that he had not enough units to really weaken my stack of elephants and cats....

As I see it, he had the units. My real misake was making my original peace deal too long and too solid......... He saw it coming.


Anyway, I've just played a turn. Things are pretty hopeless. Yet, I am still puzzled by Plattfuss' compensation plans..........

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Stapel

Well, in the end, Plattfuss had too much time to build up a force too. I saw that coming, but there was no way back. I simply had no alternative for my units.

I was quite surprised by Plattfuss' production rates though.

In civ, the attacker has a huge disadvantage, because the 'first strike' is with the defender. Plattfuss could simply wait for my forces to be near and then hit me hard with cats (I suppose). My plan was that he had not enough units to really weaken my stack of elephants and cats....

As I see it, he had the units. My real misake was making my original peace deal too long and too solid......... He saw it coming.


Anyway, I've just played a turn. Things are pretty hopeless. Yet, I am still puzzled by Plattfuss' compensation plans..........

He hit our stack just ourside of Lyon with over a dozen catapults and then cleaned up with 40-50 axemen and swords. About 6-8 units survived that, but I was unable to retreat them...

[Stapel]

Things are really hopeless.


Would it be OK to simply allow Plattfuss to take over all my cities in a rather gentle way?

The only alternative I see is to let him take over my cities rather slowly. I can see the fun of it, in a way, but as far as I am concerned, my game is over.

I might as well shake Plattfuss' hand and see if I can assist him in a way to victory.

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Stapel

Things are really hopeless.


Would it be OK to simply allow Plattfuss to take over all my cities in a rather gentle way?

The only alternative I see is to let him take over my cities rather slowly. I can see the fun of it, in a way, but as far as I am concerned, my game is over.

I might as well shake Plattfuss' hand and see if I can assist him in a way to victory.

That's a possibility. I would bleed him as much as I was able. Helping someone win is not very high on my list of priorities when playing CIV, but that's just my opinion...

[Stapel]

Originally Posted by Darkness

That's a possibility. I would bleed him as much as I was able. Helping someone win is not very high on my list of priorities when playing CIV, but that's just my opinion...

Point is: By bleeding him, I simply help someone else.....

[Plattfuss]

Hi Stapel,

when we saw war was coming up you asked me if I had thread where I put all my comments regarding the development of the game. Since I do not maintain one I thought I put my comments up here where you can review them in context .

Plattfuss

[Plattfuss]

Originally Posted by Stapel

... As it appears, there are 4 massive desert corridors. This means that conquering the land of a neighbour is quite hard and probably rather useless for a very long time, possibly even to the end. It's gonna be a builder's game. ...

So far, I have met 1 neighbour. Plattfuss, as De Gaule, is south of my land. We've agreed on peace until 0AD and thereafter peace with a 10 turn notice.

I completely agree with this assessment of yours. I thought by the way our treaty was made war was almost impossible. What I didnt had in mind was that you could not want to prolong the treaty once it was expiring. In that case I would have tried to make it last til the end of the game which at that point might have been easier to negotiate with you than later on.

[Plattfuss]

Originally Posted by Stapel

There is another reason I wasn't interested in Ian's pig. Platfuss has pig. And I will take it! Platfuss' economy is racing forward, mostly due to TGL. The fact he has TGL and Christianity makes him a big a prize. I have the elephant advantage, so I have sunk into easy war mode. My cities have hammams, are nearly pop-maxed, have barracks and two have stables. I do know construction, so I will concentrate on WEs and Cats. I have 9 workers and many forrests have already been pre-chopped. In 25 turns, I will notify Plattfuss our deal is over and in 35 turns I will strike. I will chop the enormous forrest surplus in 18 turns. This should bring a surprise power increase. Even if Platfuss suspects things too early and will build up his own force, the elephants should give me a fair chance of succes.

I think in this situation your analysis has some correct points, e.g. that the French empire would be a nice prize. However, IMO you left out some rather important aspects of the analysis:

1) Economy and Techs
You are planning to attack a civ that is economically (and by the status of its research) advanced compared to you. IMO this is something you can only do if conditions are very favourable, e.g. they cannot see your demographics (and how you build up your army) and they have no army and you have less than 10 turns pre-announcement of war.
2) Espionage
If you had looked at the ratio of our espionage points you would have realised that at that point I was leading that ratio by far. I was able to see not only your demographics but also your research. And from what you were teching it was quite easy to conclude that you were on the road to war.
3) Christianity
Maybe you thought of it but you didnt mention it in your post: Having researched Christianity gave me the option to switch gov to Theocracy and thus to produce units with 5 exp. points. Quite an advantage over your 3 points units (not your WE due to stables, but cats etc.).
4) Tactical advantages and their influence on the balance of power
You add all possible bonuses to your side of the equation (like production bonuses due to shopping etc.) but you do not consider that I will of course do the same especially when I see thinks coming with about 30 turns heads-up.
5) War Elephants
War Elephants are nice but not invincible. They even have a disadvantage in that they make your attack plans and tactics very easily readable. Of course, there is going to be a stack of WE and cats. And, of course, since you are the attacker and will be entering my territory I will be able to pick the place for our encounter and have the freedom to produce the best matching units against your WE / cat stack.

[Plattfuss]

Originally Posted by Stapel

Guess what, Plattfuss wants more peace:

I'll kindly decline!

See my comment next quote.