Map generator issues

Darkness · 06-12-2005, 09:39

Does anyone else also have problems with getting a decent map? (I think I saw akots post something about it in some topic, but I can't find it anymore).

Last night I spent 3 hours trying to get a decent map (continents/pangaea, standard size. All other things on the default setting), and I didn't get any decent map at all.

It gives me one of two kinds of maps:
- Extremely isolated start, without any resources
- Extremely crowded start, with a massive load of resources.

Does anyone else also notice this, or did I just experience an extremly long (20-25 tries) run of bad luck with the map generator?

Melifluous · 06-12-2005, 11:30

Is this after applying the patch I guess?

Not noticed it personally, but then again I did seem to get some very plains heavy starts after the patch.

Unlike some people I guess I'm not bothered if I dont get a 2 Pigs, 3 Cow and a sheep start...

Darkness · 06-12-2005, 11:35

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Is this after applying the patch I guess?

Yes, it is. I should've posted that, sorry.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Unlike some people I guess I'm not bothered if I dont get a 2 Pigs, 3 Cow and a sheep start...

Are you into livestock now, Meli?

I'm not bothered by that either. But the problem is that the map generator only seemed to generate extremes for me last night. It was either great land (and resources) with a lot of rivals nearby, or the land sucked (and there were no resources) and no rivals within a 30 tile radius...

Maybe it was just a one time thing? I'll try again tonight. Maybe I've got better luck then.

Shabbaman · 06-12-2005, 12:01

Akots posted about it in the patch thread.

Tubby Rower · 06-12-2005, 19:36

I personally have had only one "tough" start. That's in Who-1 over @ Cfc. We were isolated on a continents map. IMO all of the starts are playable. you just have to adjust you're playstyle for each map. IMO, the only unplayable start is a one-tile island or trapped behind a ring of mountains. I'm wih

.. I don't restart if I don't have multiple food bonuses or none for that matter.

akots · 06-12-2005, 20:46

@Meli: I guess you get at least one bonus food resource in the close proximity of the starting location and often times it might be a good idea to move the settler before founding the capital. Usually though capital tends to be not very balanced. It is either enormous amount of food in the form of flood plains or cow+pig/corn+wheat or whatever or really many shields on hills with plains all over the place with occasional grassland patches. But really, there is a lot of plains on the map after the patch. I tend to agree with Darkness here. It is playable up to Monarch though regardless of terrain. However, starting from Emperor at least at our very modest skill at current learning level, it might be a good idea to look for something slightly better just make sure the survival is possible.

In this case, overall, continents maps become really poorly playable. I would not mind isolated start though on some maps but overall it seems that crowded start is somewhat easier. First, it is possible to largely avoid barbarians all together (there are no efficient means to fight them on higher difficulty levels except keeping fog to a minimum around the start). But then, it is an obligatory early rush to clear some breating room and get iron/copper/horses. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. So, again, not all maps are playable and again at least at current playing skill of most of the players. I'm sure with time when more tips and tricks are mastered, may be most of these starts will be easy whereas now it just does not click. I usually try to skip the nasty plains while building the starting cities. In one of the games on Emperor, I had a great starting location with grassland and hills and river and on the coast and pigs+corn. But there was tundra immediately to the north and a huge plains area (about 5x8 tiles widthxheight) to the south without substantial food bonuses and/or river. Then immediately after that further south started the jungle with occasional hills again essentially resourceless with some calendar luxuries. It does not look like a balanced or playable start but I was able to continue somehow. This start took me about 4 hours total time to find. Actually, it turned out to be very playable but I was stuck with 3 cities for a long time. The capital, a tundra city (to get furs and silver) and the borderline plains/jungle city. Fourth city came online only about 400AD and it was captured from the AI. I'm now at 1200AD but the great plains are still unpopulated. So, I'm telling you that plains are the game killer in civ4. They would certainly patch that because it should not come in large areas like this.

Oh, and if you play Rome, every start except isolated is playable on any level if there is iron somewhere nearby.

akots · 06-12-2005, 20:59

Oh, also, the governor is certainly broken in the patch. This is noted already in the bugs forum at CFC. This also means that there are some cities which just reverse back to governor on their own even though all settings for the governor are unchecked. Sometimes a "healthy" city can be also infested with the "governor plague" during a certain period of growth. The bad thing is that you assign all the tiles and when next turn you look at the city, the governor is back there and you find your artists changed to scientist and culture not growing. Or something like that. Very annoying. But then, after the cities grow or there is some terrain improvement built by worker, it is all back to normal.

Lt. Killer M · 07-12-2005, 09:58

I get OK maps, but one thing pisses me off: I never get both stone and marble anymore - AIs do. This in about 30 tries!

'get' being defined as stone to be settles, marble to be taken, even!

06-12-2005, 09:39	#1
Darkness Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Netherlands. Posts: 4,169	Map generator issues Does anyone else also have problems with getting a decent map? (I think I saw akots post something about it in some topic, but I can't find it anymore). Last night I spent 3 hours trying to get a decent map (continents/pangaea, standard size. All other things on the default setting), and I didn't get any decent map at all. It gives me one of two kinds of maps: - Extremely isolated start, without any resources - Extremely crowded start, with a massive load of resources. Does anyone else also notice this, or did I just experience an extremly long (20-25 tries) run of bad luck with the map generator? __________________ "Death is lighter than a feather, but duty is heavier than a mountain..." - The Eye of the World

06-12-2005, 11:30	#2
Melifluous Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the bar with SF. Posts: 3,024	Is this after applying the patch I guess? Not noticed it personally, but then again I did seem to get some very plains heavy starts after the patch. Unlike some people I guess I'm not bothered if I dont get a 2 Pigs, 3 Cow and a sheep start... __________________ Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy, It's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick! So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas. Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.

06-12-2005, 12:01	#4
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	Akots posted about it in the patch thread. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

06-12-2005, 19:36	#5
Tubby Rower Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle of VA. Posts: 3,896	I personally have had only one "tough" start. That's in Who-1 over @ Cfc. We were isolated on a continents map. IMO all of the starts are playable. you just have to adjust you're playstyle for each map. IMO, the only unplayable start is a one-tile island or trapped behind a ring of mountains. I'm wih .. I don't restart if I don't have multiple food bonuses or none for that matter. __________________ 3/2006 : Now, surely that must be because some fists might have caused internal damage to certain delicate parts?

06-12-2005, 20:46	#6
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	@Meli: I guess you get at least one bonus food resource in the close proximity of the starting location and often times it might be a good idea to move the settler before founding the capital. Usually though capital tends to be not very balanced. It is either enormous amount of food in the form of flood plains or cow+pig/corn+wheat or whatever or really many shields on hills with plains all over the place with occasional grassland patches. But really, there is a lot of plains on the map after the patch. I tend to agree with Darkness here. It is playable up to Monarch though regardless of terrain. However, starting from Emperor at least at our very modest skill at current learning level, it might be a good idea to look for something slightly better just make sure the survival is possible. In this case, overall, continents maps become really poorly playable. I would not mind isolated start though on some maps but overall it seems that crowded start is somewhat easier. First, it is possible to largely avoid barbarians all together (there are no efficient means to fight them on higher difficulty levels except keeping fog to a minimum around the start). But then, it is an obligatory early rush to clear some breating room and get iron/copper/horses. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. So, again, not all maps are playable and again at least at current playing skill of most of the players. I'm sure with time when more tips and tricks are mastered, may be most of these starts will be easy whereas now it just does not click. I usually try to skip the nasty plains while building the starting cities. In one of the games on Emperor, I had a great starting location with grassland and hills and river and on the coast and pigs+corn. But there was tundra immediately to the north and a huge plains area (about 5x8 tiles widthxheight) to the south without substantial food bonuses and/or river. Then immediately after that further south started the jungle with occasional hills again essentially resourceless with some calendar luxuries. It does not look like a balanced or playable start but I was able to continue somehow. This start took me about 4 hours total time to find. Actually, it turned out to be very playable but I was stuck with 3 cities for a long time. The capital, a tundra city (to get furs and silver) and the borderline plains/jungle city. Fourth city came online only about 400AD and it was captured from the AI. I'm now at 1200AD but the great plains are still unpopulated. So, I'm telling you that plains are the game killer in civ4. They would certainly patch that because it should not come in large areas like this. Oh, and if you play Rome, every start except isolated is playable on any level if there is iron somewhere nearby. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

06-12-2005, 20:59	#7
akots Nebuchadnezzar II Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Glover Park Posts: 4,459	Oh, also, the governor is certainly broken in the patch. This is noted already in the bugs forum at CFC. This also means that there are some cities which just reverse back to governor on their own even though all settings for the governor are unchecked. Sometimes a "healthy" city can be also infested with the "governor plague" during a certain period of growth. The bad thing is that you assign all the tiles and when next turn you look at the city, the governor is back there and you find your artists changed to scientist and culture not growing. Or something like that. Very annoying. But then, after the cities grow or there is some terrain improvement built by worker, it is all back to normal. __________________ Cujusvis hominis est errare; nullius, nisi insipientis in errore perseverare Ciceron (Marcus Tullius)

07-12-2005, 09:58	#8
Lt. Killer M Emperor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: HAWK!. Posts: 4,365	I get OK maps, but one thing pisses me off: I never get both stone and marble anymore - AIs do. This in about 30 tries! 'get' being defined as stone to be settles, marble to be taken, even! __________________ One more turn..... just one more turn... one MORE!