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Old 11-11-2010, 15:25   #6
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Originally Posted by ProPain View Post
What I really liked was the 'good' AI vs 'Fun' AI comparison combined with the typing of civ players in3 categories. For me that explained a lot about the design choices behind civ. What struck me is that he characterised Civ as a single player game 1st and a multiplayer game (a distant) second, and consequently needing some 'fun'AI design choices over 'good' AI choices.
I'm definitely a challenge player, like most of our community here. Chess club as a kid, heh. I also found it weird that he thinks of Civ as a single player game first, given that his baby Civ4 was designed as a multi player game at first ; but then he explains that the large majority of Civ players don't play multi.

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Looking at Civ V while keeping in mind the points Soren made, I can't help but think Firaxis moved more towards the 'fun' AI side for Civ V. This means multiplayer and 'Challenge gamers' are less catered too and that's probably what bugs me about the game. It's a fun game but from a competitive MP PoV it's a huge step back from Civ III/IV.
I threw the word "arcade game" for Civ5, just by reading about it on the forums. See the pattern :
- Find the city states
- Sell your resources to the AI
- Use the money to befriend the city states
- Get so much food and culture from them that you needn't worry about it anymore
- Get more production, gold and science now that food is not an issue
- Use the gold to maintain the cycle
- Smash the AI
This seems to be a strong and simple strategy to use game after game, no matter the level difficulty, the map, the opponents, etc. But it can't be done in MP. So Civ5 seems to be a single player game primarily, and the player is encouraged to pursue small missions in order to win. Heck, the city states themselves ask the player to do stuff !

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Another point that struck me was the fact that sometimes good ideas get tossed because the AI can't handle them. 1UPT should have had that faith I think, comp is just not able to handle it at all.
From what I read of Sullla's games, it looks like the Civ5 AI is neither good or fun.
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