Tour de France 2008
 

It was a big issue here at CDZ in the past years, but this year, there is no thread after the race started.

In Germany, few people like to watch it despite a German having the yellow jersey.

Le Dopage is still a big issue over here.
Jaksche told a lot of what he knew and after that didn't find a new team. German media (and people) see that as a hint to cycling still having the same problems.

Jan Ullrich accepted a fine earlier this year which means, that it is officially accepted that he was doped and still he insist on not having betrayed anyone (his words), which concludes to him indirectly saying that everyone was doped.

I see and acknowledge the efforts that Le Tour is making to get clean sports or at least limit doping.
In the end, if no one was found guilty of doping inside the Tour than that would be a bigger scandal than finding one.

Still, I am nt really watching it, just looking at the results.

How do you feel?
What's the feeling like in the Netherlands after that strange Rasmussen story of last year?

The Rasmussen story isn't that strange. Only morons believe the Rabobank riders were and always have been clean. It's easy to close your eyes for it though. But the Germans are overreacting: how can anyone be surprised that someone from East Germany wins the tour and it turns out he was doped afterwards? BTW, some random german that's not a TT specialists and who beat the world champion with half a minute? Highly suspicious. Gerolsteiner does have a strict stand on doping though. Not that that is helping them to find a sponsor...

What's hurting me most is that the spanish riders are escaping punishment. Surely dr. Fuentes had foreign customers, but the spanish are slacking here. Just as the ASO does, turning their back on the UCI and their blood passports is very stupid.

Unfortunately I can't watch, because I have to work. I'm eagerly waiting for the mountain stages, and F5'ing cyclingnews' live feed.

I havent been watching it and don't really find it that interesting tbh but i did see a Brit won some part of it the other day.

He's from the Island of Man, the british equivalent of Lesbos ;)

As usual I watch every bit I can, which is quite a lot as I;m on vacation and the weather sucks.

On the doping issue. I'm pretty convinced everybody who managed to get some decent result in the 90's was doped up on EPO, not just the italians and the east-germans. In a way that leveled the playing field so I;m inclined to think that in a way the competitions were 'fair' anyway. The last few years things changed and I think a considerable amount of riders is clean, whereas another, also considerable, part of the riders still uses prohibited substances. It's just a matter of time till the next riders is caught. I agree with Shabba that it's weird no Spanish riders are suspended in the Fuentes affair. After all some prominent ones where/are names (Valverde, Contador).

Alhthough I'm convinced Rasmussen was using dope, why would you need to cover up your whereabouts otherwise, I'm also convinced this wasn't common practice within the Rabobank team. I have seen to many riders who performed substantially worse during their Rabo period then their times with other teams. Lotz, Leipheimer for example. HOwever they must have known Rasmussen was doing dope based on teh fact they received emails in which he asked not to reveal his whereabouts cause he wanted to keep that silent. So they turned a blind eye and that was a stupid mistake imho. They should have fired Breukink over this and I still don't know why they didnt.

Anyway, gtg. 3 mins till the live reports!

BTW, next year is gonna be good for us dutchies. Gesink is gonna ride the tour and hopefully Dekker will be in good shape then as well. Also looking forward to see Lars Boom making the switch to the road, maybe the biggest talent we hav atm.

It's good background tv, but I do try to watch the end of the etappes.

I have no opinion on the doping matter. Just wondering: do you think Indurain and Armstrong were clean?

Indurain? Don't know, too long ago, I wasn't watching it.

Armstrong? No way, Jose. He was worst of all. On the other hand, very clever, because he wasn't really caught (he got 2 or 3 positive tests but all were a few years later where there wasn't any B-test possible)

You are perfectly right, Shabba, the Germans were very naive thinking that Germans wouldn't dope. In the end, one of the public TV stations (ARD) was even one of the first big sponsors of Team Telekom, so they didn't ask questions for a long time, as it was in their own interest seeing them winning. What even surprised me, is that they got their doping from an university hospital in Freiburg. So not only "strange guys" like Dr. Fuentes did that.

Fuentes is a strange story. It was said that he had a lot of clients, not only from Cycling (still wonder why Nadal won Wimbledon ;) ) but only a few were made public.

Schumacher was already caught, but only with amphetamin in training stages. And he had a high blood value where he had this sent off for "saving" him. So, not at all looking like clean.

I really do hope that at least the next generation of cyclists is thinking different. Maybe with laws changing.
Jaksche said, that he didn't really care about his health. But the possibility to go jail might have changed his mind. That's what he said.

I am home too late from work to watch the stages, so maybe I am watching on the weekend.

German cycling is probably nothing worth mentioning in the next few years. That's sad, because if a team moves to America that surely doesn't help "clean" young people getting in and doesn't help in controlling them.

Did you see the documentary on Greg Lemond yesterday? Nice television. His exact words: "When we found out what they we're doing at ONCE, we knew we couldn't compete."

He's referring to EPO here. It's implied that he stopped because he couldn't keep up because everyone else was using EPO. Make of that what you want, but Armstrong accused Lemond of using EPO. If he was, he was either a very, very early adoptor or he had some allergic reaction to it, because his last two years (when EPO was on the rise) he didn't win a thing.

EPO was pioneered at the teams of ONCE (now Astana, see the connection?) and Gewuss (the team of Monsieur 60%, now manager of CSC) under the lead of Conconi and Ferrari.

That dr. Ferrari was the doctor of Armstrong (and several other top cyclists, including our own Thomas Dekker, but also Landis, Leipheimer and Vino). This made Armstrong very suspicious, and caused Lemond to lash out at Armstrong. Could be a pot and cattle story for sure, but it's his affiliation with Ferrari that made Armstrong suspicious.

It's not very likely that Armstrong was using EPO though. At least not in the classical way of improving your own red blood cell count, because he couldn't get an advantage over his competitors this way. He might have been using the Hemopure that Rasmussen used, or the dr. Fuentes method. Armstrong is too smart to get caught though: a real professional. Very meticulous in his preparation, technique and training. In that aspect he was leagues ahead of his competitors, and it's that aspect that makes him one of the greatest cyclists.

Sure, it's likely that that's the same basis for some form of advanced doping use, but we'll probably never know.

Everything in cycling is connected. For instance, one of Ferrari's "clients" is Tony Rominger, manager of Contador, Vino and Cadel Evans. You might say that he manages some talented riders, but Contador (ONCE, btw) was heavily implicated in Operation Puerto (the dr. Fuentes thing). We know what Vino did. You trust Evans now?

Now what has this to do with Indurain? I believe that what ONCE was doing was (and is) common practice for spanish teams. Indurain dominated the tour for years (actually, he managed to keep his losses to a minimun so that he won after all), despite his competitors using EPO? Sure... Indurain was caught once, but for some astma thing. Banesto wasn't as prominent in using doping as ONCE and Kelme, but they didn't keep clear of it either. Why else would you hire Alex Zulle (ONCE, and the famous Festina of '98). There are confessions of former Banesto riders that doping was used systematically. Make of it what you want.

Banesto is now Caisse d'Epargne btw, employer of current favorite and dr. Fuentes client Valverde, and tour 2006 "winner" Pereiro. Pereiro was caught for using the same medicine Indurain used...

So, back to the current tour: Menchov losing valuable seconds, again! There's something wrong with this guy.

Damn, Shabba. That's one complicated story. [scratch] But thanks for the insights.

Not complicated at all. I am almost 100% sure that EVERY winner since 1960 doped. Maybe maybe Van Impe didn't though... (1976).