ok, my short list (and I don't particulary care which at this point as they all have weaknesses to exploit)

Ottomans (we'll be early targets)
Chinese (fast UU, but again, early targets)
Arabs (cheap and fast UU, but early target and expansionist trait)
Carthage (defensive UU, seafaring)
Rome (good early UU, militaristic trait may be good in a wargame, but not overly useful)
Indian (good UU, we'll be early targets)

well, you guys probably have a better idea of what civ to play. I really think, since this is 8 humans, that we'll end up in wars. Cultural victory will be nearly impossible. Plus, there's a lot of talent in this one, and those teams got a prefered civ that they feel good about. Could be interesting (and when engineers say "interesting", it does not necessarily imply "good")

Well, I am a bit unhappy as well. Why we can't see the list of who is available doesn't really make sense, as we already lost our top five here. With two agri on it, it isn't as if this situation is really our fault. We don't even need to know which civs are chosen, just which ones are eliminated would be nice. But even that hasn't been provided to us.

I think I might rather have France, Byzantium, or England before Carthage, Rome, or India.

And, is interesting ever good?

I would recommend we stay away from Seafaring (not sure why I listed Carthage last night). There will be 2 continents with 4 civ's each, and I don't think we can play with only 1 trait and expect to survive.
Commercial is not a trait to overlook. We will have less corruption which means we will be able to build more units. That's why I listed Rome and India (not to mention, both have very good UU's). France is one I overlooked that we could play well (Ind & Com).

So, short list as follows atm (not listed in a prefered order):
Ottomans
Chinese
Arabs
France
Rome
India

I disagree about seafaring. On a continents map, that trait still has quite a bit of value. Our chances of getting a galley over there during the AA or early MA are much better. Assuming a twelve tile separation between continents, which seems about average to me, we need spend only two turns at sea, meaning we have a 9/16 chance of making it to the other continent. Non seafaring, that would be three turns at sea, and a 1/8 chance of making it to the other continent. We will also still need a navy eventually, and not to a substantially lower degree than on an archipelago. Now, I realize that tech brokering isn't the same with humans, but if we wind up as the only seafaring civ, there is quite a bit of room to take advantage of that. Now, I see why we wouldn't want the ones I mentioned because of their UU. I rarely think too much in terms of that, for some reason. But I don't think we should toss the seafaring trait aside as being useless.

ok, list as of now (no particular order)
Ottomans
Chinese
Arabs
France
Rome
India
England
Byzantines

I really recommend against SEA trait, but if you guys want it, that's fine. I see the contact advantage, but I don't think it helps much in an all human game. We need to get this list to 5 soon (not sure where Romeo's at)

Well, if you insist. Go ahead and remove England and Byzantium.

My list then would be:
Ottomans
China
France
India
Rome

the other thing about Seafaring, JD, is that we would be forced to have a coastal capitol. This would essentially cut our core in half, unless we did a costly palace jump.

My list:
Rome
Ottos
France
India
Japan

We will be early targets, India is probably the best then, as we can get to pults really quickly. Japan and Ottos are on there for the Kickass UU. Japan also starts with a tech at Mono. India for points listed, France is always solid. Rome, just to piss of GRS.

Ok, I will submit the following to Rik as our order of preference (kind of a combo between the lists).

Ottoman's
France
China
India
Rome

Everyone ok with that? if so, let's submit and see what we draw.