Learning Pitboss
 

This pitboss game is meant to be a learning experience for all involved. Since that is the case the usual warning for in game players to stay away doesn't apply here. Anyone can look at this thread and post questions or advice.

Here are the players/teams.
Team 1 -Majic- Suryavarman II of Ethiopia(Random)
Team 2 - TheMeInTeam- Washington of America
Team 3 - Calis - Cyrus of Persia
Team 4 - nabaxo - Vicky of Mali
Team 5 - RasmCiv - Hammurabi of Zulu
Team 6 - fireflames - Gandhi of Russia(Random)
Team 7 - harvman - Julius Caesar of Viking(Random)
Team 8 - IlBrago - Kublai Khan or Babylon(Random)
Team 9 - link16 - Saladin of Holy Rome
Team 10 - SilentConfusion - Mehmed II of India

Game Settings:
Difficulty: Monarch
Map Script: Archipelago
Map Size: Standard
Climate: Arid
Sea Level: Medium
Starting Era: Ancient
Game Speed: Normal
Options:
-Agg AI
-Unrestricted Leaders
-Random Personalities
-No Technology Brokering
-New Random Seed
-No Vassal States
-No Random Events
-Simultaneous Turns
-Take Over AI
-Turn Timer

My Leader/Civ:
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0047.jpg

Mehmed II is EXP and ORG giving him cheaper workers, +2 health, double-speed granaries, cheaper civics, double-speed lighthouses, courthouses, and factories. India starts with Mysticism and Mining and has the Fast Worker and the Mausoleum. The idea is to get fast workers out quickly and improve tiles quickly, with cheap economic infrastructure. This would seem to be a good setup for expansion. No military bonuses or UU.

Here's the start:
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0048.jpg

Just a plains wine? That's not what I was looking for. A lot of forests but I think I'll end up moving. I move my warrior 1NE:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0051.jpg

I won't miss any special tiles except wine if I move 1N and maybe I'll find some food. I'll at least get more land tiles while still being coastal:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0052.jpg

At least this spot has a fish, but if I move 1NE>1NW I could settle on a plains hill with the fish and get 4h early for faster worker. If I settle in place here the worker comes out in 15 turns. If I take another turn and move it comes out in 12 turns. The only real loss is 1 turn of teching (probably BW). I'm thinking I'll move, then settle the next turn then tech BW>Fishing and build a worker, with some turns on a warrior if the worker would get done before BW.

EDIT: actually, it will take 14 turns to get the first worker if I move (because I can't work the 2h tile until the border pops). This becomes a wash in terms of the first worker, although every one after that gains time.

You have already lost some turns, so it might be a good idea to start with a warrior before the worker. (Or are civs sharing landmasses not possible with Archipelago?)

Someone might find you quite soon if you don't have an island on your own.

I would have stayed where you were, hill start and the bonuses related to the river coupled with an extra forest to chop.

Yes, second BCLG. That's not a GOTM. Somebody walks in and you are dead for good. But on Archipelago map, risk is small and is worth the benefit.

This is the kind of thing I don't think about not having played MP much. I didn't think "what if a scouting warrior finds me?" I just saw no food.

I'm pretty sure if it's the snaky continent variety of Archipelago I could have a neighbor.

I was thinking of moving again. To a plains hill 2N of current location, then settling. Is this too many wasted turns? I'm again not thinking like it's MP. I think of hills as production, rather than defense. About the river... I thought since I was EXP I could afford to move off the river.

Are you saying that the risk of moving is worth it?

Thanks guys for the feedback. Any advice on how to play better, especially about things that are specific to MP, will help me get better. I respect your advice.

Maybe I should have just settled in place, but I'm learning. Since I already moved into the forest, there wasn't any point in going back, so it was a question of settle in the forest or move to the plains hill 2N (NE>NW). I moved in the first place to find food, but I wanted that plains hill when I saw it. It would still get the fish and potentially other seafood as well. Again, maybe I shouldn't have delayed settling, but I couldn't resist the plains hill.

My warrior was gifted 65 gold from a nice group of villagers.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0050.jpg

It doesn't seem likely that another civ could get to my capitol. My warrior will protect it, so I can't resist moving. Possibly I am playing very newbish. Please let me know. I don't usually scout with my settler. ;)

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0054.jpg

My capitol will have ivory, but it will need a galley before it can be improved.

Here is my island after turn 1. It looks quite small with a fish, wine, and a gold. It seems my island is very small as I can see coast just in the black FoW east of the gold. Hopefully another seafood is on the east coast.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...enShot0056.jpg


I'm not so familiar with playing on Archipelago maps, but I'll do my best. I'll want fishing, sailing and BW early. I'll probably go Fishing>BW>Sailing. I don't think I need another warrior because of the apparent size of my island. Will move my warrior 1N just in case someone is on the other side of the mountains. So I might start with a worker and have him improve the grass hill to crank out a workboat quickly.

The issue with the river is not just the health, it's also the trade, not needing boats. Also the extra bonus as a defender you get for people not having to fight over it. Finally, a particular favourite of mine in BtS is now you cannot use the levee.

The problem with your starting location is that you do have ivory indeed but what else have you got? 1 fish and 2 hills and 10 sea tiles, 2 of which only have 1 commerce. Then from what I can tell you have 5 grassland tiles- I dont think any of them are river placed so you have a very small cap placed on the amount of commerce generated.

Then the issue with the ivory is this (not sure if barbs are on) but not only do you have to build what could be a rather pointless galley earlier on to work the tiles but you also have to station some unit over there in order to guard it/keep a galley around to ship over. otherwise it may get pillaged on a regular basis.

I think in the future you should keep in mind switching your capital to a decent location because the current location is an average at best city, luckily to the south you have a load of trees and so if you have bronze/horses then you can chop out an army very fast and go and capture someone elses capital and use theres!

You shouldn't be afraid of moving your Settler in MP (As you weren't) but there has to be a point to doing so and not just blind moves (as you did with the second move on to the hill). Apologies if my post comes off a little harsh, it was not intended to at all :)

The risk was small. That is what I mean.

The main problem is that your leader is not very good for sea-based maps. He has a lot of benefits but they are better for a land-based map. Any financial leader will be in a much better situation. Another drawback of the move is that you cannot irrigate the tiles around the capital rapidly and so you population growth will be slow. Even if you go cottage spam, the cottages will bring less gold early on.

Again second BCLG, sooner or later you would have to move the capital to another city. For now up until size 6 or 7 it will be OK but later in the game the need to tech rapidly will require larger cities and more productive ones. On a bright side, you have some hammers which is the main problem on archipelago type of maps. But with you next move you moved actually away from these hammers for some reason.

So, I'd say that first move is OK. But your second move is a mistake. I'd go back to where you were after the first move. There, you could irrigate almost everything and you would have had 4 hills to work. On archipelago map, it might be better not to settle on plains hills. You lose 2 hammers per turn eventually later on. Although it is hard to tell. Some maps have a bit more hammers.

Also, with regards to ivory, the easiest way will be to settle there at some point. No need to improve and immediate connection to the capital. You can still settle there even if you decide to build your capital where your settler stands now. Unless these two landmasses connect somehow.

No need to apologize for sounding harsh. I didn't think it was harsh, just helpful. I didn't consider the other benefits of the river.

Barbs are indeed on and I see your point. I'd need to station troops there or it'll get pillaged.

The leaders were picked before we knew what type of map it is, so I didn't know I'd be playing Archipelago.

Ok, I agree with you both that I moved blindly the second time and had no reason to. And I also didn't consider that the plains hill might need to be worked do to low hammers. I should be thinking about all the land and its yields not just looking for specials. And the lack of riverside tiles is one more reason why I should have stayed.

Now I guess the question is do I move back as akots says he would do and lose another turn but have a better capitol or do I settle in place and try to leverage the early hammers of the forest into troops to take someone else's capitol and then move my palace?

I think I'm leaning towards the second choice. I can put a city back where I started. I will try to find someone early and take their capitol. I think the tile 1SE of the plains hill is either horse or a metal.

Each of my mistakes I will try to learn from. I want to become better at MP Civ. I was OK with SP for a long time, until I tried MP and now I'm not sure I can go back to playing against the AI. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to comment on my mistakes.