Cut the Crap players please read!
 

Mauer just send me a PM saying:

"I've noticed several complaints in the spoilers about the surrounding areas." He also tells me has looked closely to the starting area but not so much the surrounding areas. Mauer offers to redo the map or make a new one.

Your views please!

What I have seen so far isn't that bad but even if there are a few people that really have CRAP surrounding them (and it can't be cut ;) ) I support a restart even more since we jsut started.

I don't mind either way. So far my surrounding area doesn't look that good but not that bad either. As I can't see oter people's surrounding area, I don't know anyway.

My surrounding aren't that good either. But if everyone's area is so crappy, then there's no reason to restart, is there?

Besides that, perhaps for once the lesser civs will see this as an opportunity to bond and fight their big brother, instead of kissing their feet for the rest of the game. If there is a big brother.

My start is pretty awful. I don't know too much of the surrounding area but from what i can tell i have jungle to the north and water west south and east.

So i'd vote for a restart but wont force one on anyone.

My capital has a preaty nice spot, but my second city will probably be in a bad spot.

Sorry guys, after I started reading the spoilers, and got a comment from someone else, I went back and looked. All my attention was on the actual starting spots and getting the extra units in the right places :(

This was my first map to handle though, so it can't do anything but get better from here [dunno]

+1, the map is quite strange. There is desert where there supposed to be flood plains. And I think I will lose my second city to barbarians next turn. [lol]

So, restart will actually save my arse. Otherwise, I was planning on retiring soon.

OK, according to civstats, I actually lost the second city.

I don't have any real complaints. My start is on a nice spot but nothing special, the surrounding from what i can see are ok but again nothing special.

I have nothing against a restart if people's starts and surrounds are really bad.

Although if we do restart maybe we can agree to what size area should be optomisied (for lack of a better word), because while our starting areas should be relatively even, i don't what it to get to a point where the maps a mirror image for everyone

Perhaps its just me but i don't find the game as interesting if i have very little to work with. If i am going to be spending months playing this game i'd prefer to not have a start which is in essence similar to my holdem start. (a decent start but then nowhere else to settle).

Yes, your start there was awful, so that's not good. But my point is: no one has even chances in a game, unless the game is symmetric to everyone. And the more even we try to make 'em, the more the actual differences draw attention. You'd better be thrown on a random map and make of it what you can, provided that you actually have a chance to make anything out of it (which you couldn't in Texas Hold 'em).

But I feel I fall into repetition, so I should shut up now. Mauer, could you please generate a new map and see to it that we all have at least proper room for expansion?

One final note I really would like to stress is this: imagine being trapped on a peninsula with only one neighbour, with very little space for you and an enormous hinterland for your neighbour. The result, without diplomacy, will be that you have no option than go for an early elimination of your opponent, while your opponent might not find the need to do so, cos he'll reckon his future will be more prosporous when developing. In effect, your opponent gets killed and you end up with the lot. Of course reality is not that simple and diplomacy and good forseight of your opponent might alter the outcome. However, as long as the starting position and surroundings aren't crap, I'm convinced skill will make the difference.

My start is pretty average, not very good, but I've had worse. From what I've read here, this is true for most people in the game.

This concerns me because I had a similar issue in The Monk game I made, i.e. I was 100% sure two tiles were floodplains next to a river appeared not to be so after generating the map from the WBS. Upon checking the WBS later it was correct there and for some reason also correctly picked up the second time.

In other words it seems that the map is not always correctly generated from the WBS.

I propose as Matrix did to ask Mauer to either repair the current map or make a new one AND have it checked by someone else (we did the same with the RtW games and it was common practice in the Civ III PBEM era). RikMeleet is the most experienced mapmaker we have not participating in the game.

But not experienced at all. Total cIV maps made or editted so far: 0.

I definitely could have made the map better. I did do just what I was asked though, which was to try and get the starting positions pretty par. In hindsight I should have taken my own measures though and made the map so that the entire game would be enjoyable. If you guys don't mind being guinea pigs for me, then I'll give a redo map a go. Just say the word and I'll start working on it.

Mauer, I Just consulted with Matrix over the phone and we give the word and our support for you doing a remake of the map. We also strongly recommend a check of the map as a back-up. If Rik is uncomfy we can help to find another person to check and if you know someone doing the check that's oki as well.

My main issue is that Firaxis still isn't capable of generating off-the-shelf maps for MP games and therefore we need fellow site familiars to make and check the maps for MP. The art of Mapmaking imo can only be learned by doing and everybody willing to invest some time there is highly appreciated!

The current game will be stopped if there are no objections btw.

Ok, I'll start working on it right now. I'll try and not rush myself on it to make sure I get it right. Any other parameters?

EDIT: I think I'm either done or about done. I played through about 50 turns or so with one of the civs and opened up WB to take a peek. Looks like all is well, but if you guys have someone in mind to double check me then let me know.

I don't mind checking the map, i've made quite a few now. However as im playing it would mean we'd have to open the map for all to check.

I got one PM request left. If we can not find a ppl to do the check we can either do it ourselves (but then the excitement of exploration is pretty much gone) or just get it started.

Please don't let us see the map! That takes a lot of fun out of the game! I don't want people to know where the oil is in the classical era.

I'll volunteer to check things out!

[worship] [worship]

Sent Stapel a PM. Just need his email.

I just emailed the save to memphus from CFC. He said he'd take a look at it.

Triple post, sue me.

Memphus replied and I tweaked the map after considering his suggestions. I think this one should be much better than the last. Anywho, sent it on to the Beamer :)

Is my assistance still needed then? I'll be home around 7pm CET (1pm US eastern time).

Imo the map has been sufficiently checked and rechecked so let's take it from here. Many thanks for volunteering Bas!

The map comes with a new set of Civs so we are going to have another lottery:
- Egypt - Hatshepsut
- Mongol - Kublai Khan
- Arabia - Saladin
- Hannibal - Carthage
- Korea - Wangkon
- Viking - Ragnar
- England - Elizabeth
- Holy Roman - Charlemagne
- America - Washington
- Japan - Tokugawa
- Sumeria - Gilgamesh

Matrix, can please do another pull?

I'll try to use the same Civstats entry but a new one might be needed.

01. Plux - Egypt
02. BCLG100 - Mongolia
03. NHJ - Arabia
04. socralynnek - Carthage
05. akots - Korea
06. Nitro - Viking
07. Matrix - England
08. Beam - Holy Roman Empire
09. barbu1977 - America
10. Robi D - Japan
11. IanDC - Sumeria

Just to explain what I did: for Egypt I let Excel pick a random number between 1 and 11, for Mongolia between 1 and 10, for Arabia between 1 and 9, etc. Plux was number 7 (see this list), so I plucked him out of the list. Mongolia picked #8, which was now BCLG100, because everyone above 7 dropped one (there was no more 11). Arabia also got #8 and after removing BCLG100 from the list NHJ was now 8th. And so forth.

Thanks for sorting all the mess surrounding this guys, mauer/beam/stapel(offering)/matrix!

No thanks from you guys, but thanks to you guys for putting up with the problems and giving me another chance :)

Oh, and here's a quote from Memphus

Wow, he took the job seriously!

Indeed, sounds like Memphus has owned himself CDZ membership. :)

I volonteer to pay his first year

Yeah i'll pay for the second year!

And I volunteer for being the first to spam his personal forum if he wants one...