*Spoiler* Team Engineer -Markstar's Superfast PBEM
 

This is the spoiler thread for Team Engineer. Please do not read further if you are on a competing team!

ok, Romeo's prefered civ's are as follows:

Sumeria
Celts
Egypt
Greece
Persia

My preferred color is black.

Of those, I'd like Celts first.

i agree, celts would be my #1, over Sumeria, just because of the UU + AGR. However, we need to review Mark's selection method for civ's to ensure we have a good chance to get it.

I couldn't really understand his selection method. I really don't mind anyrace in this game as long as they get cheap price culture. In Fab Four, before it went really badly for me, I had cultural pressure up the yingyang on everyone, and the borders made their warring take a whole lot longer than they wanted to. A similar move here would not be that bad.

if we're stuck on a continent with 3 or 4 other civ's, I don't see us having a lot of time to build culture.

ok, let's talk about the listed civ's so we can submit to Rik later today. I would propose swapping Egypt and Persia such that the Persians are #3 and Egypt is #5. Listed order is currently proposed as follows:

1. Celts
2. Sumeria
3. Persia
4. Greece
5. Egypt

Looks good to me. All of those civs have nice UU, allowing for early war to take off. We will need pults pretty quick as well, but that will be a research strategy.
I am fine with that list and would submit it as is.

Seconded.

Any ideas for password?

grahamthebedmonk?

[lol] very nice paal, that looks good to me :)

also, i'm going to try today to open a gmail account for the saves that we can all access. that way, there won't be any problems when we switch players. hopefully, this game utilizes matrix's turn tracker.

list and p/w sent to Rik

Excellent smithers!!
I am looking forward to this one a lot.

all of our selections were rejected due to the selection method. Rik wants us to select 5 new civ's, but I'm not sure what the heck the criteria is so I asked which civ's are still available. Maybe it'll shed some light on what this process is as none of us seem to understand it.

edit: actually, I'm kind of pissed about this. Why are all 5 of ours eliminated but all other 7 teams have a civ from thier list? can't he find a fucking way to give us at least one civ from our list and give someone else a different selection from thiers? And I know we sent our list very early (2nd or 3rd), so how the hell did the others select before us [rant] [mad] [dunno]

I'm not going to tell you as that would give you some information of the other teams and possibly create an unfair civ-choice. That is the reason why I asked 5 instead of just 1.

Just choose 5 non-Agri civs you'd like to play. I'll check your top choice for availability etc. You get the civ you prefer (if possible).

sorry, can't sign in MSN right now. problems with the connection. plus, i need my teamates to help with the list. how 8 teams can submit 40 civ choices and not get 8 distinct civ's is beyond me [ponder]

Sure, Consider you options. I've send the PM to all 3 team-members so they are aware of it when they log in.

quote: actually, I'm kind of pissed about this. Why are all 5 of ours eliminated but all other 7 teams have a civ from thier list? can't he find a fucking way to give us at least one civ from our list and give someone else a different selection from thiers? And I know we sent our list very early (2nd or 3rd), so how the hell did the others select before us -

The selection method (as described by Markstar in the thread) used was:
1 - Compare the 1st slot. All civs that are unique (chosen by only 1 team in that slot) are chosen.
2 - If a team has been assigned a civ; the team's choices for later slots are ignored.
3 - Double civ-choices in any slot are automatically removed from the game - eliminated.
4 - Compare the 2nd slot. All civs that aren't eliminated and are unique (chosen by only 1 team in that slot) are chosen. rince and repeat for all 5 slots.

Meaning in your case: your slot 1 civ was doubled. Your slot 2 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1. Your slot 3 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1 or 2. Your slot 4 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1,2 or 3. Your slot 5 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1,2,3 or 4.

The other 7 teams had chosen a civ in a slot that was both unique and not chosen in an earlier slot by a different team. The civ selection has nothing to do with the order in which the PM's were received. The play-order in the game will be.

I will post a clarification in the main thread on how the civs were assigned to the teams after all 8 teams have a civ assigned. Sorry for the inconvenience, but the selection method was known upfront in this post: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/to...REPLY_ID=52828

well, sorry, but this just gets my "irish" up [lol]

ok, my short list (and I don't particulary care which at this point as they all have weaknesses to exploit)

Ottomans (we'll be early targets)
Chinese (fast UU, but again, early targets)
Arabs (cheap and fast UU, but early target and expansionist trait)
Carthage (defensive UU, seafaring)
Rome (good early UU, militaristic trait may be good in a wargame, but not overly useful)
Indian (good UU, we'll be early targets)

well, you guys probably have a better idea of what civ to play. I really think, since this is 8 humans, that we'll end up in wars. Cultural victory will be nearly impossible. Plus, there's a lot of talent in this one, and those teams got a prefered civ that they feel good about. Could be interesting (and when engineers say "interesting", it does not necessarily imply "good")

Well, I am a bit unhappy as well. Why we can't see the list of who is available doesn't really make sense, as we already lost our top five here. With two agri on it, it isn't as if this situation is really our fault. We don't even need to know which civs are chosen, just which ones are eliminated would be nice. But even that hasn't been provided to us.

I think I might rather have France, Byzantium, or England before Carthage, Rome, or India.

And, is interesting ever good?

I would recommend we stay away from Seafaring (not sure why I listed Carthage last night). There will be 2 continents with 4 civ's each, and I don't think we can play with only 1 trait and expect to survive.
Commercial is not a trait to overlook. We will have less corruption which means we will be able to build more units. That's why I listed Rome and India (not to mention, both have very good UU's). France is one I overlooked that we could play well (Ind & Com).

So, short list as follows atm (not listed in a prefered order):
Ottomans
Chinese
Arabs
France
Rome
India

I disagree about seafaring. On a continents map, that trait still has quite a bit of value. Our chances of getting a galley over there during the AA or early MA are much better. Assuming a twelve tile separation between continents, which seems about average to me, we need spend only two turns at sea, meaning we have a 9/16 chance of making it to the other continent. Non seafaring, that would be three turns at sea, and a 1/8 chance of making it to the other continent. We will also still need a navy eventually, and not to a substantially lower degree than on an archipelago. Now, I realize that tech brokering isn't the same with humans, but if we wind up as the only seafaring civ, there is quite a bit of room to take advantage of that. Now, I see why we wouldn't want the ones I mentioned because of their UU. I rarely think too much in terms of that, for some reason. But I don't think we should toss the seafaring trait aside as being useless.

ok, list as of now (no particular order)
Ottomans
Chinese
Arabs
France
Rome
India
England
Byzantines

I really recommend against SEA trait, but if you guys want it, that's fine. I see the contact advantage, but I don't think it helps much in an all human game. We need to get this list to 5 soon (not sure where Romeo's at)

Well, if you insist. Go ahead and remove England and Byzantium.

My list then would be:
Ottomans
China
France
India
Rome

the other thing about Seafaring, JD, is that we would be forced to have a coastal capitol. This would essentially cut our core in half, unless we did a costly palace jump.

My list:
Rome
Ottos
France
India
Japan

We will be early targets, India is probably the best then, as we can get to pults really quickly. Japan and Ottos are on there for the Kickass UU. Japan also starts with a tech at Mono. India for points listed, France is always solid. Rome, just to piss of GRS.

Ok, I will submit the following to Rik as our order of preference (kind of a combo between the lists).

Ottoman's
France
China
India
Rome

Everyone ok with that? if so, let's submit and see what we draw.

Actually I did some more thinking. Submit Japan first. We can be the first to Ponies by ~8 turns. Then we will see what the little ****masters on the other teams think of us.
We could be very "interesting."
I would put the Japs first, bump China from the list and have the ottos second.
Of course what we have could work, I was just thinking outside the box.

Interesting doesn't always mean bad, BD, it just always means overtime. And since engineers aren't hourly, it means unpaid overtime.
Which is ok, because I would just waste my time with crappy stuff like family, friends, and church activities. Everyone knows that they are completely expendable to make Lumbourgh's stock go up a quarter of a point. (I have this amazing habit of getting done with only 50 hours a week, about 20 less than the other grad students/research scientists, and I stay as productive)

interesting = weekends ;)

anyways, I agree with Romeo, though I would not put them above the Ottomans or France. REL + MiL kind of stinks, but knowing where horses are helps and having early archers means no one messes with us for the 1st 30-40 turns. However, I also seem to get my ass handed to me everytime I play Japan.

List (for me, as I still rank Otto's and France over Japan):
Ottomans
France
Japan
India
Rome

I can accept that list. Submit that puppy.

I can accept that as well.

ok, will pm to Rik

Hey guys, I may have started a minor feud/flamewar with Beam. I hope that it is all in good fun, if it is not ok with you guys, I will go and apologize.
I also asked Rik to rename our UU to Milton. I have no idea what race we are, but Milfhunters (Beam and company) are the Otto's. Looking forward to this one.

You are France. I had already taken the liberty to rename all UU's. Yours is (unless you want a different UU name): L'Engineer

How about "Mousquet vers le haut des anus" instead? Yeah, babblefish sucks, but what can I do? No decent filth will be translated [lol]

Romeo, I really don't see the need for the French bashing in the common thread. I know it's just in jest, but sometimes people don't like that kind of shit. Make fun other thier MILF name, thier purple hair, or something, but I'd prefer to leave the Anti-Nation stuff that spills over to real-life out of this game.